Where the Program stands

[Ibeeballin]

If anything, COVID should have helped Collins. Basically made up for the 2019 class... If you really think that was a major detriment to begin with.

Yeah, a year where you had to exercise social distancing while teaching OL how to block and DL defeat blocks & pass rush along with keeping guys on the roster who should’ve been gone was very beneficial

 

[yeti92]

The extra year granted an extra year to guys like a injury prone Kenny Cooper, Brooks, & Lay to take much needed snaps from critical areas. You rather your hand be forced to play Vaipulu, Lockhart, Stone.

1. Why do you think Collins was obligated to play these guys over his recruits? Lay was a walk on for christ sake. That was 100% his choice, nobody forces him to play anybody.

2. If they were so injury prone, they should have missed a lot of snaps (they did). Why wasn't Collins putting his young recruits in then? Why did and does he keep going to portal guys over getting his own recruits playing time to develop and gain experience?

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not willing to give up on Collins. I don't like his rah-rah style either, but I'm willing to give him time. I think there was a limit in what he could do with his staff when hired and he had what he had. Maybe this was being a young coach and needing to learn or maybe it was financial, don't know, don't care. Covid hit and I think that pushed the program back a year, if not two, in that I think our OC would have been changed after Year 2, not Year 3 (and maybe others). I'm willing to be optimistic and give him more time, others aren't. Now we're in a situation where the wild, wild west is upon us, so who knows where we're going to be. Are we really going to fire a coach and have a payout when we're going to be trying to keep up with all that spending around us? We're already behind the eight-ball financially. I think as long as the big contributors (most of whom are not ready to part ways with Collins yet, despite what one vocal big donor said) are willing to give Collins time to figure it out, GTAA isn't worried about the little guys and the season ticket holders. The thought is that if he makes it, those season ticket holders will come back and if he doesn't, they'll come back with the next coach.

Entering Year 4? This is Year 4 like no Year 4 has ever been. Not making excuses, as performance matters, but no coach has ever had to go through what these coaches are going through now. No one knows what's going to happen. I spoke with a very good friend of mine last night at a youth baseball game about what going on and what's going to happen, and he said it's going to get even crazier. There's no going back and it's unstoppable. The day of the true student-athlete is over at the highest levels of college football and basketball.

(Note: not all of my comments are directly relevant to this post. I just used it as a place to say multiple things.)

I hear you. I love your optimism. I use to have it especially during the off seasons and heading into August. But Collins got me hard last year with the NIU game. He ripped my optimism away. I want him to succeed because I root for the GT uniforms. And I totally get the COVID year, etc. But I watch a lot of football and we have been the most poorly prepared team since Collins got here. We all understand not having the players to win big but there is no excuse for being unprepared in game 1 against a non-P5 team. And now we get to open with Clemson who has a chip on their shoulder. This could be another ND type game if we put in the same off season work we did last year.

 

[swampsting]

really a shame sims wasn’t available for clemson as that was a very likely win with him. yates was…something that game

They have two first round draft picks on that D line.
Versus our O line.
With Sims in there, it also could have been a turnover fest.

 

[swampsting]

And if I read Ken's story on KJ Wallace right, we already have 17 scholarship guys in the secondary.
That's some roster management there.
Meanwhile, we need O line and D line help.

Let's not forget, Collins is like Dan Uggla right now when it comes to the current recruiting class.
0 for 23.

 

[takethepoints]

You can’t analyze where the program stands without understanding where the program stood when Collins took over.

Let’s go back. We had an offense that was recruited for the option. 280 lb OTs are fine in the option, but they can’t pass block well enough for a balanced offense. This isn’t a knock on Johnson, he recruited what worked for his offense. The QB needs to be a runner, not a passer. WRs need to be skilled at blocking, not route running. TE’s? A backs don’t work well as TE’s.

Then there is the defense. Even the most avid Johnson apologist has to admit that the defenses weren’t good. We lost 8 starters from Johnson’s last team and the one that Collins inherited. One of the downsides of the option is that it inhibits D recruiting.

The biggest need when Collins took over was at the line of scrimmage—on both sides. We needed OL and DL, and still do. Headed into last season, Collins had 2 recruiting classes to recruit. Why? The December signing date means that a newly hired coach is stuck with what the previous coach had recruited—and on offense that was guys suited for the option. Then, you don’t win with FR and SOPHS. Further, as O’Leary said, the further you are from the LOS the sooner you can play. The portal has been a mixed bag at best. LOS talent and depth hasn’t been there, but it’s improving.

Knowledgeable observers knew that the transition would be painful. They knew it would take 4-5 years at best to get the program in order. It has taken time to get the talent we need to be competitive. The recent portal guys generally have 3-4 years of eligibility, which is a good sign, but we are still putting the pieces in place to be competitive .

Coaching wise, the staff was one of the lowest paid in P5. Our coordinators only made a little bit more than UGa’s lowest paid position coach ($425K and $450K vs. $400K per USA Today) . How many P5 teams had coordinators making less than $500K? The position coaches were paid less, and paying to live in Atlanta. I don’t believe that pay scale was Collins’ decision. Do people really believe we can be competitive with top teams without paying competitively for coaches? I believe—but don’t know—that this issue finally came to the attention of some people willing to write checks, which is why we saw such staff turnover since last year.

A head coach doesn’t need to be great at X’s and O’s or development. Dodd wasn’t. After Graves and Broyles left, his record was pretty mediocre. Dabo isn’t an X’s and O’s guy, and people made fun of him after he lost to Spurrier at SC for five straight years. How did that work out? Clemson spent money on assistants. Tech hasn’t.

People accuse me of being a Collins fan. He has recruited at a higher level, which we needed. But is he the right guy? I don’t know, but I am willing to give him time. Time, under the circumstances is 5 years-- due to COVID, the December signing date, the coaching budget, and the talent on hand when he took over. And don’t tell me about Rivals and 247 recruiting rankings as a measure of team talent. Such BS.

Then there is the schedule for 2022.

I’m being patient for two more seasons.

Gosh, there's so much here that I think is correct and just about as much that seems just plain wrong.

1. We could have won with the players Paul left. The problem is the same one that emerged at Temple when Collins took over there: he was willing to lose to do what he wanted. And, sure enough, he did. Pert of this was injuries, of course; losing Graham so early and seeing so much turnover game to game in the OL didn't help one bit. But … when that team got it together and Collins let the players do their thing - the NC State game is the best example - we looked pretty good. But the main problem was that Collins wanted an instant turnover instead of using what he had to try to win.

2. Yes, the D sucked in Paul's last year. And it only improved slightly in Collins's first year. We were slightly better in DFEI, however. In 2021, we truly sucked.

3. Yes, the instability of the OL and DL has greatly hampered the team. But I think a lot of the is a combo for bad coaching and ill-advised conditioning. My favorite example = Kenny Cooper. As a 300 pound center he was a smasher. 25 pounds heavier he lost a good deal of the agility he had and a lot of speed. Still, given the turnover in both lines I think any coach in the country would have had a bad time putting a conventional spread O in place, much less an RPO one.

4. We heard the same thing when Paul took over. His first team in 08 had a load of OL injuries to deal with and installed a new O. They also went 8 - 3. I wasn't expecting that from Collins, but I wasn't expecting increasing mediocrity either.

5. When you are right, you are right. But this has always been a problem at Tech. Moneyball is right: we won't win by trying to spend like other programs. We can get a bit more money, but nothing like the Gnomes of Athens. This is something we have to live with. And, btw, Dodd was a great X and O guy. Broyles and Graves were good assistants, but the reason Dodd was such a great game day coach was his feel for how the team was working on both sides of the ball. He never missed anything and knew what to call when he took things over.

6. Again, when you are right, you are right. I wouldn't be surprised if we had a better record without all the obstacles in the last two seasons. I'm sure Collins wasn't expecting to have his second year as head coach consumed by a world-wide pandemic of a completely new virus that we had no defense against. And he has recruited well for what we are doing. The question = does he know what to do with the talent on the team? So far, the answer has t6 be no.

7. Yes. We need to start scheduling to win.It isn't all that hard, though it might mean getting rid of the Georgia game. Times change and Tech needs to change to meet them.

8. I'm not. One more season with 3 - 4 wins and out he goes.

 

[WreckinGT]

really a shame sims wasn’t available for clemson as that was a very likely win with him. yates was…something that game

20 for 34 and 200+ yards was better than most QBs did against Clemson last year. Yates had his bad games. That wasn't one of them.

 

[GT33]

4. We heard the same thing when Paul took over. His first team in 08 had a load of OL injuries to deal with and installed a new O. They also went 8 - 3. I wasn't expecting that from Collins, but I wasn't expecting increasing mediocrity either.

The OL Johnson inherited was extremely weak. My memory's fading but I believe overall we only had 74 scholarship players on the roster after recruiting ended,11 below the limit. You talk about a depleted roster, that's it. I believe Brown started at tackle & he wasn't even an OL. We had Voss a frosh at center, today's fans would stroke out having to play a 1 star frosh there. Howard and Gardner played quite bit, but those were the only 2 with experience if I recall correctly and both played injured. Claytor was a RS frosh I think, ended up starting by end of year. I'm think Barrick a converted TE saw time on the OL, he was a RS soph.

Our defense had quite a few good players on it, but to infer the offense and the OL in particular was stuffed with talent means you were either just too young or maybe weren't following the program very closely at all. What happened on offense given the circumstances was quite amazing given the patchwork squad.

 

[JacketFan137]

20 for 34 and 200+ yards was better than most QBs did against Clemson last year. Yates had his bad games. That wasn't one of them.

it’s a little more than just the stats. he made some awful reads on the mesh, and his presence allows the defense to play so close to the line of scrimmage that it really makes it difficult to run the ball. there’s a reason he had such little interest when he was in the portal and he ended up at an fcs school. thankfully the qb depth is something we addressed in the off-season. sims will hopefully stay healthy and we won’t have to test that but any game with yates playing was always an uphill battle

 

[JacketFan137]

And if I read Ken's story on KJ Wallace right, we already have 17 scholarship guys in the secondary.
That's some roster management there.
Meanwhile, we need O line and D line help.

Let's not forget, Collins is like Dan Uggla right now when it comes to the current recruiting class.
0 for 23.

the last part isn’t really that big of a deal honestly. bama has 3 recruits signed right now. most programs have a handful at most. if you said this in october it would actually be a real issue

 

[Sheboygan]

I hear you. I love your optimism. I use to have it especially during the off seasons and heading into August. But Collins got me hard last year with the NIU game.

This is EXACTLY how I felt then. Now, instead of EXPECTING the hard work in the offseason producing noticeable improvements in the first game, I thought we still looked soft and unprepared ( especially with the coaching aspect) like the COVID year. From now on CGC and his team will have to show improvements BEFORE I start to expect any.

 

[billga99]

Gosh, there's so much here that I think is correct and just about as much that seems just plain wrong.

1. We could have won with the players Paul left. The problem is the same one that emerged at Temple when Collins took over there: he was willing to lose to do what he wanted. And, sure enough, he did. Pert of this was injuries, of course; losing Graham so early and seeing so much turnover game to game in the OL didn't help one bit. But … when that team got it together and Collins let the players do their thing - the NC State game is the best example - we looked pretty good. But the main problem was that Collins wanted an instant turnover instead of using what he had to try to win.

2. Yes, the D sucked in Paul's last year. And it only improved slightly in Collins's first year. We were slightly better in DFEI, however. In 2021, we truly sucked.

3. Yes, the instability of the OL and DL has greatly hampered the team. But I think a lot of the is a combo for bad coaching and ill-advised conditioning. My favorite example = Kenny Cooper. As a 300 pound center he was a smasher. 25 pounds heavier he lost a good deal of the agility he had and a lot of speed. Still, given the turnover in both lines I think any coach in the country would have had a bad time putting a conventional spread O in place, much less an RPO one.

4. We heard the same thing when Paul took over. His first team in 08 had a load of OL injuries to deal with and installed a new O. They also went 8 - 3. I wasn't expecting that from Collins, but I wasn't expecting increasing mediocrity either.

5. When you are right, you are right. But this has always been a problem at Tech. Moneyball is right: we won't win by trying to spend like other programs. We can get a bit more money, but nothing like the Gnomes of Athens. This is something we have to live with. And, btw, Dodd was a great X and O guy. Broyles and Graves were good assistants, but the reason Dodd was such a great game day coach was his feel for how the team was working on both sides of the ball. He never missed anything and knew what to call when he took things over.

6. Again, when you are right, you are right. I wouldn't be surprised if we had a better record without all the obstacles in the last two seasons. I'm sure Collins wasn't expecting to have his second year as head coach consumed by a world-wide pandemic of a completely new virus that we had no defense against. And he has recruited well for what we are doing. The question = does he know what to do with the talent on the team? So far, the answer has t6 be no.

7. Yes. We need to start scheduling to win.It isn't all that hard, though it might mean getting rid of the Georgia game. Times change and Tech needs to change to meet them.

8. I'm not. One more season with 3 - 4 wins and out he goes.

I agree with most of the above. I did want to make a comment on point 7. I have been a very long time GT alumni. But I do think it is time to reconsider Georgia as a football opponent. The reality is we have been 3-18 the last 21 years. We have not been consistently competitive with UGA since the 1990s. PJ won 3 but the gap has considerably widened in the last 5 years. With all of the handicaps we have discussed in terms of money and the significant advantage the SEC has in mindshare in Georgia, I don't think we can realistically be competitive with Georgia in football moving forward. Yes I realize it is our closest rival and very long history. And yes they fill the stadium when they play at GT which means more revenue. However the flipside of that is I think it would help our recruiting in Georgia if we didn't have to overcome an annual beatdown by UGA. I know I am in the minority, but I do think the past can't always be the roadmap for the future.

 

[Ibeeballin]

the last part isn’t really that big of a deal honestly. bama has 3 recruits signed right now. most programs have a handful at most. if you said this in october it would actually be a real issue

The first part isn’t a big deal either when your base defense is 5 DBs

 

[WreckinGT]

it’s a little more than just the stats. he made some awful reads on the mesh, and his presence allows the defense to play so close to the line of scrimmage that it really makes it difficult to run the ball.

Ill just cut off the I think Yates is the worst QB in the history of football nonsense you post over and over again and respond to this. Six teams on Clemson's schedule had less rushing yards than we did against them. That doesn't even include the FCS school they played. In nearly all stats we were middle of the road or better against Clemson compared to the other teams they played. Im not sure if you noticed but Clemson is pretty good on defense. We held our own for the most part and im not sure there is much evidence that we would have done significantly better with any other QB in there. But yes, we will find out. If your theory is true then I trust your expectation that we will have an offensive explosion against Clemson to start the season.

 

[JacketFan137]

Ill just cut off the I think Yates is the worst QB in the history of football nonsense you post over and over again and respond to this. Six teams on Clemson's schedule had less rushing yards than we did against them. That doesn't even include the FCS school they played. In nearly all stats we were middle of the road or better against Clemson compared to the other teams they played. Im not sure if you noticed but Clemson is pretty good on defense. We held our own for the most part and im not sure there is much evidence that we would have done significantly better with any other QB in there. But yes, we will find out. If your theory is true then I trust your expectation that we will have an offensive explosion against Clemson to start the season.

not the same teams and situation so it would be unfair to both guys to compare the 22 game vs the 21. using what other teams did vs clemson is also kinda ridiculous. we left points on the board and didn’t find a td in several red zone trips. that was almost entirely on yates and he had a nightmare in the redzone against them and unc and got benched for a reason.

also who is anyone to say what we can and can’t post lol some people mindlessly post about how bad collins is over and over and that is fine but stating yates struggled (which he did in every game but ksu) is somehow off limits.

 

[WreckinGT]

not the same teams and situation so it would be unfair to both guys to compare the 22 game vs the 21. using what other teams did vs clemson is also kinda ridiculous. we left points on the board and didn’t find a td in several red zone trips. that was almost entirely on yates and he had a nightmare in the redzone against them and unc and got benched for a reason.

also who is anyone to say what we can and can’t post lol some people mindlessly post about how bad collins is over and over and that is fine but stating yates struggled (which he did in every game but ksu) is somehow off limits.

You can post whatever you want, I am just not interested in responding to your random cheap shots at Yates anymore. The horse is dead at this point. Keep on pounding it if you want to. I don’t really care.

Back to Clemson though, they were #2 in the country in red zone defense. If you think scoring in the red zone would have been easy with another QB or that it’s going to be easy this year with Sims back in there then we will just agree to disagree.

 

[gtphd]

IMO there is too little proven production both among the returnees and among the incoming transfers to expect significant improvements, but hopefully I am wrong. I'd put the ceiling at 6 wins, and alot has to go right for us to get to that level.

6 wins would require a substantial improvement over last season. It’s not there. I’m putting the likely range for wins in the 1-4 range, with 2 being most likely.

 

[JacketFan137]

You can post whatever you want, I am just not interested in responding to your random cheap shots at Yates anymore. The horse is dead at this point. Keep on pounding it if you want to. I don’t really care.

Back to Clemson though, they were #2 in the country in red zone defense. If you think scoring in the red zone would have been easy with another QB or that it’s going to be easy this year with Sims back in there then we will just agree to disagree.

beating on collins is a dead horse but that doesn’t stop anyone

it will objectively be easier to score in the redzone with sims and that’s not really an argument. he has the size, arm strength and legs to make things happen. even the other guys on the team all have better tools to score. i’m not saying it will be easy but it will be easier than last year.

to say a game we didn’t score a td in was a good performance by the offense is genuinely hilarious

 

[WreckinGT]

beating on collins is a dead horse but that doesn’t stop anyone

it will objectively be easier to score in the redzone with sims and that’s not really an argument. he has the size, arm strength and legs to make things happen. even the other guys on the team all have better tools to score. i’m not saying it will be easy but it will be easier than last year.

to say a game we didn’t score a td in was a good performance by the offense is genuinely hilarious

Like I said earlier then. I am looking forward to the significantly improved offense that we can expect against Clemson.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

beating on collins is a dead horse but that doesn’t stop anyone

it will objectively be easier to score in the redzone with sims and that’s not really an argument. he has the size, arm strength and legs to make things happen. even the other guys on the team all have better tools to score. i’m not saying it will be easy but it will be easier than last year.

to say a game we didn’t score a td in was a good performance by the offense is genuinely hilarious

I feel like you are slowly losing your usual good insights and objectivity due to some agenda.

Collins is not a dead horse discussion. He is still coach and may or may not be here several more years. That debate is still open.

Yates, who outperformed uga’s quarterback against Clemson, is gone. You think his performance against the toughest defense we played all year was subpar. Others disagree. But bashing him now that he is gone does not serve any useful purpose and fits the definition of a dead horse.