Where the Program stands

[iceeater1969]

We will face a rejuvenated DL at Clemson MBS . That will be a real test for QB and WR / TE coordination .
We just need to be not bad till second half season where we must see GOOD.

If not good by FSU , stick a fork in it.

 

[bobongo]

Perhaps Long is the savior.

That's my last hope. He's got to find a way to make this OL work, though. Either that or pull a rabbit out of his hat. The prospects seem dim.

 

[JacketFan137]

I’m probably one of the negative Nancy’s you are referring to but I agree with you. I don’t think we are that far away either. But when you are in the mass of the 70 mid level programs there’s a lot of wiggle room between 3 and 7 wins. We saw it under Johnson. He was the same coach year in and year out but the wins varied based on injury and play of the players. Under Collins we have not seen that. We have seen a consistent poor performance. A main theme on this board is is it the coaching or the players? To me it’s clear where the problem lies. So I believe we just wasted 4 years - no rebuild occurred and the program was not advanced. The next coach will be in the same position as Collins. He can advance the program through his acumen or he could stall. The ACC is weak so I agree we can jump the win total fairly easily. I just don’t think we will presently. Perhaps Long is the savior.

the only thing i don’t understand when people say things like that is they argue the players are better than the coaches, but recruiting is certainly part of it and that is something collins has objectively done well relative to johnson. now if you want to argue they aren’t being coached up i totally get it but i do think the team going forward is gonna have more talent than most of paul’s teams outside of the years he had chans guys and 2014/16.

to say no rebuild has occurred is a little bit of a stretch. the team is now at least equipped to run a real offense. this is by far the best qb room tech has had in terms of depth in about a decade.

results wise i would agree that we haven’t advanced but the pieces weve accumulated whether it’s for more years of collins or for the next guy are better than what collins had going in.

 

[takethepoints]

it’s a little more than just the stats. he made some awful reads on the mesh, and his presence allows the defense to play so close to the line of scrimmage that it really makes it difficult to run the ball.

Hmmmmm. Yet the O run by one coach we know literally begged to have the DL play close to the LOS and still ran for top 10 yardage in virtually every year. In that O - you know, the one he was recruited to run - I think Yates would have been another Rickey Dobbs. As a redshirt frosh in the O we run now, he occasionally had trouble but, played pretty well. Btw, the occasional trouble usually came with teams that had good DLs. That sorta causes all QBs in all Os trouble.

 

[Ibeeballin]

We will face a rejuvenated DL at Clemson MBS . That will be a real test for QB and WR / TE coordination .
We just need to be not bad till second half season where we must see GOOD.

If not good by FSU , stick a fork in it.

Perhaps. Bresee first actually snaps will be vs. us. We’ll see early on if he’s still explosive and, more importantly, got the stamina to be a force .

What about the back 7 for Clemson?. They lost some key pieces in Booth, Skalski, Spector, Nolan Turner? Clemson also have major depth. Iirc they are -15 scholarships short and refuse to go in the portal, So we’ll see if they are who we think they come Labor Day

 

[JacketFan137]

Hmmmmm. Yet the O run by one coach we know literally begged to have the DL play close to the LOS and still ran for top 10 yardage in virtually every year. In that O - you know, the one he was recruited to run - I think Yates would have been another Rickey Dobbs. As a redshirt frosh in the O we run now, he occasionally had trouble but, played pretty well. Btw, the occasional trouble usually came with teams that had good DLs. That sorta causes all QBs in all Os trouble.

it’s a little bit different to compare a flexbone attack to what we attempted to run last year (and what we will be running this year). even then we’d been awful against clemson as venables sole purpose in life seemed to be derailing paul johnson lol

i would love to know why people think yates would have succeeded in the option. i didn’t see any elite traits that we saw with the other qbs (nesbitt’s size and strength, tevins feel for the mesh, JTs explosiveness, tobias and taquons elusiveness). im not sure he would have beat out james graham at any point if johnson was still the coach

 

[Billygoat91]

That's my last hope. He's got to find a way to make this OL work, though. Either that or pull a rabbit out of his hat. The prospects seem dim.

I agree as well. If the defense doesn't improve or atleast create more turnovers, we don't have much hope either. It would take a significant improvement on offense alone to make up for our defensive woes. I have a couple of theories about our future if this is Collins' last year.

- We go back to an unorthodox offense (Chadwell at Coastal Carolina or Willie Fritz at Tulane seem the likely hires for this). I don't see the TO ever coming back
- We get a former P5 coach who has recently been fired (Dan Mullen or Malzahn). Dan Mullen might be a name to watch out for. He quietly took a position at a high school at Lake Oconee along I-20 where his kids attend school, or so I have heard. Proximity to where his kids attend high school and the fact that he was more of an X's and O's guy that didn't like dealing with all the other stuff at Florida may make a school like GT more appealing. It is weird that Mullen has past ties to Collins and Fritz and Long worked together last year. Those instances may make these two options not likely.
-Of course other posters have floated Long being retained as Head Coach. That would really depend on how the offense looks.
-We pull a Tennessee and the new AD brings the coach from his previous stop with him. That would totally depend on who our AD is, though.

 

[bobongo]

the only thing i don’t understand when people say things like that is they argue the players are better than the coaches, but recruiting is certainly part of it and that is something collins has objectively done well

I have said this repeatedly. He's brought them in, but he can't coach them. It's my "agenda".

 

[Billygoat91]

it’s a little bit different to compare a flexbone attack to what we attempted to run last year (and what we will be running this year). even then we’d been awful against clemson as venables sole purpose in life seemed to be derailing paul johnson lol

i would love to know why people think yates would have succeeded in the option. i didn’t see any elite traits that we saw with the other qbs (nesbitt’s size and strength, tevins feel for the mesh, JTs explosiveness, tobias and taquons elusiveness). im not sure he would have beat out james graham at any point if johnson was still the coach

I think all 3 options for CPJ had their strengths and weaknesses

Oliver - Aggressive, instinctive runner, game experience, rarely lost yardage, but the offense was a 1 read system and we barely threw it with him in the game
Graham - Great athlete, strong arm, good deep ball but no experience, questionable decision making at times
Yates - More of a passer than the previous 2, exhibited enough mobility for the offense, but not electric

I think Justin Thomas changed the way we looked at our QB's. He combined great decision making with elite athletic ability. He was the only qb in Johnson's tenure to show all of these traits and was, in my opinion, our best QB. That said, the offense hummed like a well-oiled machine with Tevin at the helm. Tevin's traits fall in line with Yates the best. Elite atheltic ability is not required to run the option, the defense gives you the appropriate read for you to execute. If the correct decision is made, the running lane will be there for the QB, or backs, to take the free yardage. During Yates' time at QB, he exhibited great decision making even if it didn't lead to great numbers last year. In the TO, decision making = great offensive numbers. Because of this, and the holes in the other QB's traits, Yates would have been the choice.

 

[JacketFan137]

I think all 3 options for CPJ had their strengths and weaknesses

Oliver - Aggressive, instinctive runner, game experience, rarely lost yardage, but the offense was a 1 read system and we barely threw it with him in the game
Graham - Great athlete, strong arm, good deep ball but no experience, questionable decision making at times
Yates - More of a passer than the previous 2, exhibited enough mobility for the offense, but not electric

I think Justin Thomas changed the way we looked at our QB's. He combined great decision making with elite athletic ability. He was the only qb in Johnson's tenure to show all of these traits and was, in my opinion, our best QB. That said, the offense hummed like a well-oiled machine with Tevin at the helm. Tevin's traits fall in line with Yates the best. Elite atheltic ability is not required to run the option, the defense gives you the appropriate read for you to execute. If the correct decision is made, the running lane will be there for the QB, or backs, to take the free yardage. During Yates' time at QB, he exhibited great decision making even if it didn't lead to great numbers last year. In the TO, decision making = great offensive numbers. Because of this, and the holes in the other QB's traits, Yates would have been the choice.

yeah i am not quite sure where you saw the decision making outside of the fcs game. he was pretty terrible at reading the read option which is still fundamentally the same type of play as he would have seen in the triple. maybe he’s a different player under johnson with better coaching but i still don’t see how he’d play. even lucas johnson would still probably be here and i think he was better.

ultimately spilled milk either way. thankfully we have brought in more talent to aid our depth

 

[JacketFan137]

I have said this repeatedly. He's brought them in, but he can't coach them. It's my "agenda".

i agree that’s a totally fair criticism. i think my issue in that other comment is that many would argue that we have the talent (which collins brought in) and that is an essential part of a rebuild. i don’t think that we have rebuilt on the results obviously but there is at least a backbone of pieces for either the next coach or collins to keep building on. as far as what that’s gonna look like and who it’s gonna be is pure speculation at this point, but if they come in with the idea of running a modern offense they at least have a qb room, TEs and a few other actual roster pieces. something collins did not have. so this year may or may not be where we turn the corner, but to act like we’ve been the same since 2019 is ignoring the process and some things that have objectively been better.

 

[Billygoat91]

yeah i am not quite sure where you saw the decision making outside of the fcs game. he was pretty terrible at reading the read option which is still fundamentally the same type of play as he would have seen in the triple. maybe he’s a different player under johnson with better coaching but i still don’t see how he’d play. even lucas johnson would still probably be here and i think he was better.

ultimately spilled milk either way. thankfully we have brought in more talent to aid our depth

I agree about Johnson. I forgot about him. I thought he was the best qb in 2019 but he was just cursed with the injury bug his entire time in Atlanta

 

[yeti92]

I think all 3 options for CPJ had their strengths and weaknesses

Oliver - Aggressive, instinctive runner, game experience, rarely lost yardage, but the offense was a 1 read system and we barely threw it with him in the game
Graham - Great athlete, strong arm, good deep ball but no experience, questionable decision making at times
Yates - More of a passer than the previous 2, exhibited enough mobility for the offense, but not electric

I think Justin Thomas changed the way we looked at our QB's. He combined great decision making with elite athletic ability. He was the only qb in Johnson's tenure to show all of these traits and was, in my opinion, our best QB. That said, the offense hummed like a well-oiled machine with Tevin at the helm. Tevin's traits fall in line with Yates the best. Elite atheltic ability is not required to run the option, the defense gives you the appropriate read for you to execute. If the correct decision is made, the running lane will be there for the QB, or backs, to take the free yardage. During Yates' time at QB, he exhibited great decision making even if it didn't lead to great numbers last year. In the TO, decision making = great offensive numbers. Because of this, and the holes in the other QB's traits, Yates would have been the choice.

Agreed. Yates was much like Tevin - at least as athletic, a good game manager and good at distributing the ball around and not trying to do it all himself. He was also a much better passer than most of the TO qbs were, at least inside 20 yards which was where the option's passing game worked best. Our passing game in the early years was a lot of quick short passes and then letting the big WR beat the corner 1 on 1, not the desperation hail mary's that dominated the Marshall years.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I’m probably one of the negative Nancy’s you are referring to but I agree with you. I don’t think we are that far away either. But when you are in the mass of the 70 mid level programs there’s a lot of wiggle room between 3 and 7 wins. We saw it under Johnson. He was the same coach year in and year out but the wins varied based on injury and play of the players. Under Collins we have not seen that. We have seen a consistent poor performance. A main theme on this board is is it the coaching or the players? To me it’s clear where the problem lies. So I believe we just wasted 4 years - no rebuild occurred and the program was not advanced. The next coach will be in the same position as Collins. He can advance the program through his acumen or he could stall. The ACC is weak so I agree we can jump the win total fairly easily. I just don’t think we will presently. Perhaps Long is the savior.

I agree with 90% of this. The 10% I’m not ready to agree with relates to the possibility that Collins could turn it around. I still hope.

But what burns my buns is that the same people who couldn’t see that even in Johnson’s worst seasons we were close to winning, and who said we were making excuses when we explained that, are the same people now who harp on how close we are even though we have yet to see if Collins can actually win at Tech.

 

[Vespidae]

I agree as well. If the defense doesn't improve or atleast create more turnovers, we don't have much hope either. It would take a significant improvement on offense alone to make up for our defensive woes. I have a couple of theories about our future if this is Collins' last year.

- We go back to an unorthodox offense (Chadwell at Coastal Carolina or Willie Fritz at Tulane seem the likely hires for this). I don't see the TO ever coming back
- We get a former P5 coach who has recently been fired (Dan Mullen or Malzahn). Dan Mullen might be a name to watch out for. He quietly took a position at a high school at Lake Oconee along I-20 where his kids attend school, or so I have heard. Proximity to where his kids attend high school and the fact that he was more of an X's and O's guy that didn't like dealing with all the other stuff at Florida may make a school like GT more appealing. It is weird that Mullen has past ties to Collins and Fritz and Long worked together last year. Those instances may make these two options not likely.
-Of course other posters have floated Long being retained as Head Coach. That would really depend on how the offense looks.
-We pull a Tennessee and the new AD brings the coach from his previous stop with him. That would totally depend on who our AD is, though.

Interesting post.

I agree with the substance of it, but may disagree with the results.

• We won't go back to the TO. There's no political or financial support for it now. The whole premise of the change was to run an offense that prepared players for the NFL. That's what doomed Malzahn at Auburn and I just don't see a return under the current rules and status of CFB today.
• Re a former head coach, I think this is spot on. One who has seen better days but ... still wants to coach D1. We will never be able to afford a currently competitive hot coach, so it's either an up and comer (unproven) or one approaching sunset (has a record). I'm not a fan of Dan Mullen ... he is regarded as a a-hole who ran a very undisciplined program at Florida. I just don't think he would fit into the culture at Tech.
• Chip Long ... I think this was the move all along. I will be shocked if Collins isn't fired at seasons end and replaced by Long.
• The new AD angle is interesting, but ... I'm not sure we could get anybody that would want the job. Not anybody decent at any rate.

This is certainly going to be a season to watch closely ... almost like who is standing next to Putin at May Day Parades.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

the only thing i don’t understand when people say things like that is they argue the players are better than the coaches, but recruiting is certainly part of it and that is something collins has objectively done well relative to johnson. now if you want to argue they aren’t being coached up i totally get it but i do think the team going forward is gonna have more talent than most of paul’s teams outside of the years he had chans guys and 2014/16.

to say no rebuild has occurred is a little bit of a stretch. the team is now at least equipped to run a real offense. this is by far the best qb room tech has had in terms of depth in about a decade.

results wise i would agree that we haven’t advanced but the pieces weve accumulated whether it’s for more years of collins or for the next guy are better than what collins had going in.

A REAL offense

 

[yeti92]

A REAL offense

Something something hidden agenda...

He should let the NCAA know so they can remove it from all their offensive stats for those years.

 

[TampaBuzz]

And if I read Ken's story on KJ Wallace right, we already have 17 scholarship guys in the secondary.
That's some roster management there.
Meanwhile, we need O line and D line help.

Let's not forget, Collins is like Dan Uggla right now when it comes to the current recruiting class.
0 for 23.

My immediate reaction was, "or like the Florida Panthers powerplay in the post season - 0 for 25."

 

[bobongo]

The 10% I’m not ready to agree with relates to the possibility that Collins could turn it around. I still hope.

I still hope. It would be great if the new assistants could get us headed in the right direction. We really need that because Geoff can recruit for a team that's not a train wreck. Because of that, and Geoff's remaining payout, I'm hoping Long can save Geoff's job.

 

[WreckinGT]

I still hope. It would be great if the new assistants could get us headed in the right direction. We really need that because Geoff can recruit for a team that's not a train wreck. Because of that, and Geoff's remaining payout, I'm hoping Long can save Geoff's job.

If you believe the people that think Long was brought in to take over as head coach then Long is in an interesting spot. He needs to do well enough that the offense looks better but not so good that we win too many games and save Collins job.