Where do we go from here?

[dmel25]

I generally have calmed down, but I got pissed today when he made that call to go in 4th with 11 min left down 6. It was a bad call for a number of reasons, but then the decision to just run straight at a defense that had stuffed you on two prior plays was just astonishing.

I liked the decision to go for it there, so I agree with CGC... however you are right the play call was trash, but that's generally the case with CDP. For every good play call he has it is followed by 3 bad ones. We really need a new OC and DC.

 

[stech81]

I liked the decision to go for it there, so I agree with CGC... however you are right the play call was trash, but that's generally the case with CDP. For every good play call he has it is followed by 3 bad ones. We really need a new OC and DC.

point blank we will not get a new OC or DC as long as CGC is here. Just like we won't get a new Head Coach as long as the AD is still here.

 

[4shotB]

point blank we will not get a new OC or DC as long as CGC is here. Just like we won't get a new Head Coach as long as the AD is still here.

I disagree with both of your statements. The first (re: coordinators) is entirely dependent on the remaining games. If we look like we did yesterday, one or both will be replaced. I don't think Collins is that tied to them to not make a change. But, like you, I am merely speculating. Same with TStan, I haven't seen anything from him that makes me believe he won't execute his job professionally when and if the time comes.

 

[Yaller Jacket]

When a coach gets stuck underachieving, I’ve seen one of a couple of things happen:
1. In a big money program, they pay the $20 mil buyout (because they have a buyout that big) and rotate in a new coach
2. In Clemson’s example, they staff impressive OCs and DCs and other coaches to shore up the head coach. VT did that under Beamer with a DC. This is a friendly situation
3. If the AD has the right contacts, they bring in an “all but head coach” OC or DC, and the coach is in a “win or this guy replaces you” mode. This is a less friendly situation
4. In a Tommy Tuberville situation, he blames an assistant and fires them, but things don’t get better—he just shifts the blame
5. If it’s a “you’re mostly good, but there are 2 or 3 position coaches that aren’t pulling their weight”, and the AD or HC or both are smart, then a couple of those coaches get replaced
6. If you don’t have any ideas or cash, you buckle up and hope, hope, hope

The money men can pick from 2-5 and save face, but I’d be surprised if they picked 1. They might back off and leave Stansbury with option 6, but ADTS would probably try for 2, 3, or 5.



I don’t think you can do a wholesale changeout and turn things around unless there’s far more than the buyout ponied up. You also need money to attract someone new, and I don’t think that only money is as attractive as one might think. Other coaches surely look here and see “it wasn’t an easy rescue job for Collins, and there have to be easier places for me to achieve what I want”. I agree that it’s another year or two at least, and probably 2.
Stansbury’s ears must be burning. I’m sure the big donors were giving him heat at halftime of the Pitt game. Losing a homecoming game that you could and should win is bad.
I’m glad you mentioned “approach”, because you usually see a successful coach turning a program around by year two. Collins shouldn’t just “do a Tuberville” and buy cover by replacing staff; he needs to find and fix the problems he’s got.

Why no more likes for this post? Slugboy answered the question posed by the thread title precisely.

 

[bke1984]

Other coaches surely look here and see “it wasn’t an easy rescue job for Collins, and there have to be easier places for me to achieve what I want”

Other coaches may also think (or possibly know) that he’s in over his head and never stood a chance in the first place.

 

[Buzzbomb]

Yesterday was a dreary day.
Other than B.C., it might be best to start the onside kicking team early in the game. Play keep away.

In all of my years of GT Football, home or road, I have never seen our HC get on the field of play to trot over to the student body to fire them up? Collins was imploring them to make noise on that end of the field(North)for the defense.
Seriously, is this good or bad as a look for the program in your eyes? Beneficial?

I was perturbed at him before that, but afterwards thought he really is genuinely a rah, rah type of guy. He also, runs out to his players when they are down or injured. It’s difficult for me to stay angry at him. Could this be another Pastner who needs a few more years to fight this through? After a few games in ‘88, Coach Ross was as despondent as a HC could look.

 

[Sheboygan]

Collins is going for the worst 3 first years in GT history for a head coach here. Too big of a hole to climb out.

Big hole to begin with. But he's using his own shovel now.

 

[bke1984]

So I’m in the camp where we are not going to be winning conference championships by trying to do exactly what everyone else is trying to do. If that’s the case then we should be doing something very different then our competitor. Does that mean is has to be 3O? Not at all. Jim Harbaugh in fact did this at Stanford by shifting heavy when everyone else was shifting light and fast. It allowed them to recruit FBs and TEs that no one wanted and run schemes where they both had a size advantage and ran a scheme their competition didn’t see often. And they were wildly successful.

Now that being said - that doesn’t mean we should be bottom of the barrel by trying to do what everyone else does. Nor should our defense be a disaster. We should absolutely be a middle of the pack ACC team in this scenario, and while I was willing to concede that it could take some time I think that three years should be enough.

There are games left to be played, so maybe we win a couple and calm down then see what happens next year. As many have said it’s unlikely that Collins goes anywhere for two more years anyhow. I don’t have a ton of confidence things will be getting better anytime soon.

 

[Sheboygan]

This post asks the question " Where do we go from here ? " I am "going " to watch more Jackets play Volleyball, and Basketball...... and less/no Jackets playing football.

 

[bke1984]

Could this be another Pastner who needs a few more years to fight this through?

Difference is that you could see what Pastner was trying to do. We actually had flashes at times and rarely we’re getting completely throttled or looking clueless.

 

[stech81]

I disagree with both of your statements. The first (re: coordinators) is entirely dependent on the remaining games. If we look like we did yesterday, one or both will be replaced. I don't think Collins is that tied to them to not make a change. But, like you, I am merely speculating. Same with TStan, I haven't seen anything from him that makes me believe he won't execute his job professionally when and if the time comes.

I hope you are right but when I look at what they pay the OC and DC who can you get, you really could end up with someone worse I know that's hard to believe. We would not get anyone to take the OC CD job and work for CGC unless the AD does what we did with B** L**** with the understanding that he would be the head coach if CGC got fired. I don't know the AD other than 7 years was way too long 5 years I could understand and then sit down after each year and see if we need to add 1 more year after each year, I understand that it's more to being an AD than to hire a coach raising money is number 1 I would guess but if you don't win that we get harder .
(I hate that after 40 years of getting season ticket I'm thinking of stopping next year)

 

[slugboy]

Other coaches may also think (or possibly know) that he’s in over his head and never stood a chance in the first place.

There are a lot of examples of NFL coaches taking on a free agent player with a bad track record, with the idea that they can turn them around. Josh Rosen is on his—what, fourth or fifth team?
So there are the people who see themselves as capable where other people failed. I’m not sure how accurate the buzz was at the time, but Pastner was one of our few interested candidates in basketball and I heard the same for Collins in football.
A lot of frustration about Stansbury is coming up. His main focus was probably to get the AA financial house in order. Football attendance is the biggest pillar of our income—or should be. That should have his attention. I’ve watched GT football for a long time, and I’m hard pressed to remember an emptier homecoming crowd. Stansbury doesn’t have any slack to give Collins now—butts in seats are a forewarning for ticket sales and donations and a score of other things.

 

[Sheboygan]

I posted last year that CGC was the type of coach that needed "elite" talent to cover his shortcomings on coaching skills ( Hiring good assistants, clock management, effective style- too much rah, rah- ability to effectively prepare a team pregame ). Sadly , not much has changed this year.

 

[Vespidae]

Where do we go from here ... well, here's a little factoid. Attendance at BDS was previously:

2019 44,599
2018 43,087
2017 46,885
2016 47,503

So far this year, attendance at BDS is:

Northern Ill. 33,651
Kennesaw St. 35,195
North Carolina 37,450
Pittsburgh 36,383
VA TECH 35,543

That's a 20% drop in average attendance. That's called ... apathy.

 

[Animal02]

I hope you are right but when I look at what they pay the OC and DC who can you get, you really could end up with someone worse I know that's hard to believe. We would not get anyone to take the OC CD job and work for CGC unless the AD does what we did with B** L**** with the understanding that he would be the head coach if CGC got fired. I don't know the AD other than 7 years was way too long 5 years I could understand and then sit down after each year and see if we need to add 1 more year after each year, I understand that it's more to being an AD than to hire a coach raising money is number 1 I would guess but if you don't win that we get harder .
(I hate that after 40 years of getting season ticket I'm thinking of stopping next year)

It is funny how many praised the 7 year deal and poo pooed those of us that questioned the sanity of such a deal to a relatively new H.C with little track record. IIRC, the biggest supposed reason was to stop him from jumping ship when he starting winning (and competing for NCs in a few short years)

 

[stech81]

Where do we go from here ... well, here's a little factoid. Attendance at BDS was previously:

2019 44,599
2018 43,087
2017 46,885
2016 47,503

So far this year, attendance at BDS is:

Northern Ill. 33,651
Kennesaw St. 35,195
North Carolina 37,450
Pittsburgh 36,383
VA TECH 35,543

That's a 20% drop in average attendance. That's called ... apathy.

Wait till year 5 , we need to stop making fun of Duke about attendance WE ARE DUKE

 

[stech81]

It is funny how many praised the 7 year deal and poo pooed those of us that questioned the sanity of such a deal to a relatively new H.C with little track record. IIRC, the biggest supposed reason was to stop him from jumping ship when he starting winning (and competing for NCs in a few short years)

And now we want him to jump ship .

 

[Animal02]

Wait till year 5 , we need to stop making fun of Duke about attendance WE ARE DUKE

Yeah, I have seen people suggest tearing down of the upper north.

 

[cthenrys]

There are a lot of examples of NFL coaches taking on a free agent player with a bad track record, with the idea that they can turn them around. Josh Rosen is on his—what, fourth or fifth team?
So there are the people who see themselves as capable where other people failed. I’m not sure how accurate the buzz was at the time, but Pastner was one of our few interested candidates in basketball and I heard the same for Collins in football.
A lot of frustration about Stansbury is coming up. His main focus was probably to get the AA financial house in order. Football attendance is the biggest pillar of our income—or should be. That should have his attention. I’ve watched GT football for a long time, and I’m hard pressed to remember an emptier homecoming crowd. Stansbury doesn’t have any slack to give Collins now—butts in seats are a forewarning for ticket sales and donations and a score of other things.

I haven’t seen many comments about the crowd size. Saw someone on Twitter say 35k followed by a lot of statements that it was nowhere near that many.

We can talk about 7 year contracts and buyouts but at some point the pain threshold is crossed. One part is $$ donations and the other is ticket sales. I live in TX so would only consider coming in for at most one game per year, but I wouldn’t have any interest in flying in for a game right now.

 

[Animal02]

I haven’t seen many comments about the crowd size. Saw someone on Twitter say 35k followed by a lot of statements that it was nowhere near that many.

We can talk about 7 year contracts and buyouts but at some point the pain threshold is crossed. One part is $$ donations and the other is ticket sales. I live in TX so would only consider coming in for at most one game per year, but I wouldn’t have any interest in flying in for a game right now.

I used to trry and make one home game and then the close Road games..Pitt ND, same here, no interest.