Where are we now?

knoxjacket

knoxjacket

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Skeptic said:
I am counting on Collins being as good as advertised on the defensive side of the ball because he is going to have to reverse 11 years of unintended consequences: having to outscore the other guy. Now he will have to keep the other guy from scoring, and his points allowed at Temple the last two years are about what GT allowed in the same period. I too wonder what "NFL based" means, since it implies chunking the ball a lot, mostly short slants, curls and drag routes mixed in with the occasional deep throw. But those 67% pass completions don't come with a vertical passing game. You get those in the NFL by dinking it quickly up the field. Quickly to keep your QB from getting maimed. I gather we do not have that QB on the roster or recruited in? (His Temple QB was big but not terribly mobile, but was a redshirt so I gather Collins had not recruited his own QB into the system. And note that his wins of 7 and 8 made a record Johnson was criticized for. So can he be better?)

That 7-year contract brought me up short. That's one of those that normally comes after a lot of success -- Swinney got an 8-year deal a couple of years ago after 6 or 7 years of winning. I hope Collins can recruit, but he has not been at one place long enough to find out, and that is not meant to be snarky. It is just a fact. When a coach leaves the motor running he is recruiting short term. I appreciate he wants to use GT's standards as a sales tool, but again, that is not new either. If I recall Johnson said the same thing the first day and had just used it at the Naval Academy ... even though he had gotten some exceptions. As has been noted, a change to a pass-based offense means giving up TOP, and I cringe at giving that up to Georgia or Clemson, or even VT and, I suspect, UNC, because Mack Brown will be sweeping down into Georgia along with all the SEC teams. So are we looking at a 2-year-window? or a 4-year window? I think that 7-year deal is Stansbury's concession of a very long and uneven haul for Collins.

I was kind of pumped up that Tech would open with Clemson on a Thursday night ACC TV network opener. Not so much now. They did Collins no favors with that scheduling, since I gather Clemson expects to be loaded again in 2019, a year in which the ACC is expected to rebound from mediocrity in 2018.
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The coastal will be garbage again next year and will remain so until coaching changes at VT and Miami. Pitt, UVA, and Duke have hit their ceiling. Mack Brown is a has-been who will fail.
 
TampaGT

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bwelbo said:
Good points, but I have to admit I did find this part funny - (paraphrasing) - not too different than normal, other than having to play the #3, #5, and #12 teams too. :D

If half of our schedule ends up being in the top 15, then a 6-win season is pretty darned good.
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My point was that we play 70% of those teams every year. The true measuring stick is what do we do against the teams we play year in and year out.
 
Supersizethatorder-mutt

Supersizethatorder-mutt

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ncjacket79 said:
I don’t expect losing seasons to be honest. We have enough good football players who played in different schemes in high school that I think we will be competitive next year. I don’t think you are characterizing the Ross transition correctly either. That wasn’t a talent or scheme issue, that was a problem with players buying into the new staff and a different expectation from a discipline standpoint. A lot of those guys simply didn’t deliver
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And how do you know that won't happen again? YOU DON'T !!!
 

Skeptic

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knoxjacket said:
The coastal will be garbage again next year and will remain so until coaching changes at VT and Miami. Pitt, UVA, and Duke have hit their ceiling. Mack Brown is a has-been who will fail.
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Hardly. Duke, maybe, in the sense of its academic requirements. But the coaches at the other schools mentioned were all very successful elsewhere and did not forget how to coach. Rather, if it is a dash of cold water, their situations are what GT has with Collins now. As for Brown, he ain't coaching. He is building a very talented coaching staff and football organization. He will never be Swinney North but it is that kind of CEO approach and already he has hit the ground running in recruiting NC, which is where Fedora bombed out year after year. The division won't be easy if that's what you are thinking.
 
forensicbuzz

forensicbuzz

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It's probably been said ad nauseum elsewhere, but there were two points I took from CGC's press conference over all else,

1) he described us as running a "pro" offense, and that was speaking directly to all the future recruits. A "pro offense" doesn't mean what it used to mean, with a 6'5", 240 lb pocket passer standing back there handing the ball off to a bruising RB or throwing the entire passing tree. There are read-option elements, passing elements, power running elements, etc. I foresee an offense akin to what Friedgen ran (as has been discussed). As others have stated, it will be an offense that shows off the NFL potential of OL, QB's, RB's and WR's. How is this going to be different or innovative, we'll see. But his comment about a "pro offense" didn't seem to be a comment about a traditional pocket-passing offense like CCG ran for his 6 years on the Flats.

2) he said he looked forward to seeing the press out at practices. So it sounds to me like the practices will be open again. Which means the scrimmages will also be open again. I understand why CPJ closed practices, but this will be a tremendous boost to media coverage moving forward. I think it will be very interesting how this plays out.
 
Supersizethatorder-mutt

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Gold1 said:
I have no idea what is up with you today. Im Just gonna let you say what you want
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All I said, was that any coach coming into a position where he has talent in place that is used to running a totally different scheme from what he plans in initiate is going to struggle, and I don't believe Collins will prove to be an exception, unless he at least initially tries to integrate part of the old offense with his new one. And I will support him, and continue to support him, regardless of what happens. You have proved that you are not willing to do the same in you abject disapproval of CPJ and your refusal to continue making donations. That latter part is what I was referring to when I called you a quitter. Fortunately, I gather the majority of Tech fans did not withdraw their support, or we wouldn't have been able to afford Collins, or any other coach of similar pedigree. But it's the first part of what I re-stated here that you rolled your eyes at.
 
Gold1

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All i know is we are in a very exciting time right now. Gonna be fun to follow this off-season
 
RonJohn

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forensicbuzz said:
It's probably been said ad nauseum elsewhere, but there were two points I took from CGC's press conference over all else,

1) he described us as running a "pro" offense, and that was speaking directly to all the future recruits. A "pro offense" doesn't mean what it used to mean, with a 6'5", 240 lb pocket passer standing back there handing the ball off to a bruising RB or throwing the entire passing tree. There are read-option elements, passing elements, power running elements, etc. I foresee an offense akin to what Friedgen ran (as has been discussed). As others have stated, it will be an offense that shows off the NFL potential of OL, QB's, RB's and WR's. How is this going to be different or innovative, we'll see. But his comment about a "pro offense" didn't seem to be a comment about a traditional pocket-passing offense like CCG ran for his 6 years on the Flats.
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I haven't watched it again, but as I recall the offense comments it wasn't "pro offense" it was an offense that prepares for the NFL. Those could be very different things.
 
RonJohn

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Boomergump said:
Fresh off the brand new hire of CGC, we are like the team running out on to the field in a big game, jumping around the sideline, smacking helmets, and generally getting each other excited to play. All that over-the-top energy, however, usually lasts about a series before you just settle down and play. It is then that everybody in attendance sees how well prepared you really are to take on the opponent.

Truthfully, it is kind of nice to see GT nation getting a little excited. It hasn't been that way, among the fanbase, or the media, in a little while. With, that said , I am a person who usually sets aside distractions and looks to fundamentals a little more quickly than most. Personally, I think CGC is in for a real challenge. There are some challenges/realities facing him and huge decisions, with lasting repercussions, looming in the near term.

Let's start with the decisions. The highest priority, without question, is finding the right OC and doing so quickly, so as to settle the immediate recruiting and player transfer dust ASAP. It cannot be overstated how important this hire will be for his and our success moving forward. Whether we have appreciated it or not, we have had a clear identity on the offensive side of the ball for a while now. We knew who we were and we were good at it. That new identity must be re-established pronto. I have heard "NFL style offense", but don't really know what that means. Clemson, for example, has had a lot of success putting offensive players in the NFL, but they haven't run an NFL offense per se. I hope what is really meant by the term is simply, running a style of offense that showcases skills that are coveted in the NFL. I would be fine with that, as I believe we could keep some of our core run game principles, whether under center or pistol, while incorporating more aerial components to what we do. We have smart kids. We should be able to master a myriad of different sets and looks within a very diverse attack. CGC, by reputation, is a defensive coach, which I welcome, because defense wins championships. That fact, however, makes this hire all the more important in my eyes. We need to improve on defense and ST without question, but if we stagnate on offense, this could be a painful process. I will take coach at his word that he intends to build an offense around what his players can do. Finding the right guy to do that, without a ton of direction from the HC is paramount. CGC will be putting his stamp on the defensive side of the ball. Together with HC duties and a brand new community to engage, that will be enough on his daily plate.

Now let's move on to the challenges. I really appreciate his reputation as a recruiter and the excitement building around this hire in that regard. I fully agree that ATL, and the state of GA, is a hot bed for talent. That has been the case for a couple of generations now though, and regardless of offensive style of play, we have struggled to land our share of the catch. Maybe, he truly does have some magic potion that will make recruits see the true value of the GT experience, relative to the rest of the southeastern CFB factories. I hope so, but a reasonable mind would conclude that without a massive shift in underlying fundamentals, we might make some headway, but this is most likely to continue to be an exhausting climb. It will be the defining test of our theories surrounding style of play and coach personalities etc. My sincere hope is that, with the CGC hire, the rest of the GT admin, combined with major donors etc, will reassess how we are supporting the recruitment efforts of our program. Hopefully his enthusiasm, charisma, and energy will embolden those in position to think big, expand our scope substantially, and contribute to the effort at another level.

By my estimation, CPJ was as good a game/clock manager, play caller, and scheme developer as has been seen in the history of the game. Those attributes will not be easily replaced. One of CGC's challenges will be to replicate a similar level of mastery within the construct of his system. Some acts are tougher to follow than others. In a perfect world, we won't ever come to realize how truly spoiled we have been. I've got some news. The world ain't perfect. Young head coaches are typically subject to a learning curve. We might want to temper our expectations and keep some patience as he grows into the role.

If these issues are not resolved to the positive, we may just find that we are merely a team jumping up and down on the sidelines before the helmets collide (Oops, sorry, that would be targeting. What I meant to say was before shoulders hit areas well below the necks). Time will tell. CGC said this was his dream job. Hopefully, we will all come to consider him our dream coach who accomplishes his vision and spends a couple decades here, retiring a legend.
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I am cautiously optimistic. What he has said is very appealing for GT. I am in no way predicting that he will be on the same level, but Butch Jones spoke a good game. We won't know for sure until toe meets leather in the fall.

What I do know is that I will support the GT team, GT players, and GT coach. In fact, as long as the program continues to develop young men who succeed in the classroom and in life, I am going to support them even if they have a rough transition period.
 
forensicbuzz

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RonJohn said:
I haven't watched it again, but as I recall the offense comments it wasn't "pro offense" it was an offense that prepares for the NFL. Those could be very different things.
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You're right. He said an "NFL offense," which I take as any offense that prepares an athlete for the next level, not necessarily the Chan Gailey offense (bleck!). That was pure marketing when he said that. He's prepping all offensive recruits to understand whatever offense we run, it will prepare them for the Pros. Thanks for the correction.
 
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