When does Pastner feel heat

JacketOff

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This is a long winded, cherry picking rant ignoring all of the other things that cost money. Just a worthless post.
Nah. This is a worthless post. If we can afford to pay our head coach the 37th highest salary in the country to not even produce top 100 results, we can afford the other aspects of running a quality basketball program.

Acting like it’s some insurmountable cost upwards of $10M per year is stupid
 

LargeFO

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Got it. More talking loud, saying nothing from the audience.
Ha yeah takes one to know one. All you do is get on here lecturing people to give more money to an AA that continually makes stupid decisions with said money. But give more money dude!! lol
 

dtm1997

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Nah. This is a worthless post. If we can afford to pay our head coach the 37th highest salary in the country to not even produce top 100 results, we can afford the other aspects of running a quality basketball program.

Acting like it’s some insurmountable cost upwards of $10M per year is stupid
I already laid out a realistic cost for a 5-year outlay. I'm not recapping it. When the school is ready to make a real, comprehensive investment, maybe a worthwhile coach will consider wanting the job.

That's what you're missing. You're getting ahead of yourself that this is a desirable job for someone who can win. Today. it isn't. It could be with the right investment, which I have no evidence is on the horizon.
 

dtm1997

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Ha yeah takes one to know one. All you do is get on here lecturing people to give more money to an AA that continually makes stupid decisions with said money. But give more money dude!! lol
Fair take. I'm not going to ask you do something I'm at a point of being unwilling to do. I'll shut the **** up though, if I don't put my money where my mouth is.

If they wanna fire Pastner, fine by me. If they wanna ride him out to reduce the buyout for another year or two, fine by me.

The games will be played. I'll celebrate the wins. I'll flush the losses. I'll bide my time until the inevitable happens.
 

reckrider

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Pastner and his coaches can't recruit. I am most maddened by the lack of shooting. GT has been stuck in getting an athlete or project. Five athletes on the floor with mediocre coaching will stink. Four or five shooters on the floor, can win some unexpected games.

I'd like to see us move on from Pastner, but thats not happening. What I hope will or has happened, is that AD Batt has gotten in Pastner's ear about recruiting, coaching and a plan to improve both moving forward. No reason for GT to not have at least one 4 or 5 star recruit come in each season...NONE. Either Pastner is very lazy recruiter or he has NO charisma to sell a recruit that might be getting offers from more reknowned programs.
Blue Cain (top100) might disagree that Pastner can’t recruit. Cyril picked us over Missouri, Northwestern, and Wisconsin. 4/5 star recruits cost NIL money. I’m disappointed with this year’s showing so far but blaming recruiting in today’s environment isn’t right. Scheme maybe. Assistant coaches maybe. But expectations around GT’s ability to pull in top 4/5 guys need to be tempered until GT can play big boy NIL driven basketball and that’s not Pastner’s fault. Hopefully J has a plan.
 

JacketOff

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I already laid out a realistic cost for a 5-year outlay. I'm not recapping it. When the school is ready to make a real, comprehensive investment, maybe a worthwhile coach will consider wanting the job.

That's what you're missing. You're getting ahead of yourself that this is a desirable job for someone who can win. Today. it isn't. It could be with the right investment, which I have no evidence is on the horizon.
What you laid out doesn’t even make sense. You’re accounting the head coach’s salary as a multi year “investment” and counting that towards a massive number that’s not even relevant

1) We’re already paying top dollar relatively speaking for Pastner. If we keep Pastner here for 5 more years we’re going to be paying him the same $15M we would be paying any other coach. So that $15M is irrelevant when you’re talking about raising funds, it’s going to come out regardless.
2) Theres already been funds raised and allocated towards facilities upgrades, so those “budgeted” numbers you came up with need to come way down.
3) We do not need anywhere close to $1.5M to hire competent assistants. If we hired 3 assistants at $500k each we’d have 3 of the highest paid assistants in the country. Mike White at UGA hired his first 2 assistants for a combined salary of $620k, or ~$310k each. If we hired 3 assistants at a rate of $500k, $300k, and $200k we could have an extremely well-rounded and highly impactful coaching staff for $1M.
4) There are plenty of jobs that aren’t “desirable” that end up producing very successful programs because they make the right hire. Was Auburn desirable at all before they hired Bruce Pearl? Hell no. Was Rutgers desirable at all before they hired Pikiell? Nope. Oh, and guess what, we’re paying Pastner more than what Rutgers is paying Pikiell for this season. Was there anything attractive about TCU before Jamie Dixon got there? A good coaching hire can completely change the perception and “desirability” of a job. If we offer somebody $3-3.5M we could absolutely find a top-tier head coach.
5) You estimated we need $9M for NIL/recruiting purposes? According to this site we could sign literally all 10 of the top 10 highest valued NIL players in college basketball, and still have some left over.
Realistically we probably need to have about $2M dedicated for NIL to be able to pull in one of the most talented classes in the ACC.

Your valuation for the next 5ish years is a $37M “investment” of which most of the money is already set aside, and most of the rest is an extreme over-estimate. If we pay a HC $3M and assistants a total of $1M, that’s ~$20M for 5 years, and only about $3-5M of that would need to be “new” money. Facilities upgrades are already factored in, but if you want to get crazy you could add $2M more in “new” money. Recruiting staff and NIL money we’d need about $6M total in “new” money to obtain a top 1/3 level in the conference. So on the lower end we’d need about $1M additional cash per year over the next 5 years to make any improvement at all, and on the very high end we’d need about $2M per year to make a significant jump. That’s somewhere between $5-10M in new money over the next 5 years to take us from a cellar dweller to a legit contender. That’s not unobtainable.
 

Root4GT

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Blue Cain (top100) might disagree that Pastner can’t recruit. Cyril picked us over Missouri, Northwestern, and Wisconsin. 4/5 star recruits cost NIL money. I’m disappointed with this year’s showing so far but blaming recruiting in today’s environment isn’t right. Scheme maybe. Assistant coaches maybe. But expectations around GT’s ability to pull in top 4/5 guys need to be tempered until GT can play big boy NIL driven basketball and that’s not Pastner’s fault. Hopefully J has a plan.
Pastner has no plan. That is very clear in year 7 when we are still a very bad BB team. He misses way too often on recruits to be really competitive in the ACC. He has had one good recruting year out of 7. That won't cut it in the ACC. Lots of excuses. Either do the job or move on. One good year in 7 is terrible.
 

Steverc

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Why "should' we get anything? You ask that like being a local school in the ACC is enough and we should be turning kids away. Didenko was a **** take, but there's more complexity than that.

Also, I think we have 4-5 3*+ kids from the local area on the team right now. They haven't turned out as hoped, but you can't take the stars away once the final rankings come out.

Meanwhile, you weren't asked the question of how you'd go about it, but since you created a diversion, I'll pose the question to you as well.

Pastner's out and a new coaching regime comes in, how do they go about putting that circle around Atlanta? Who's got strategies or tactics to go about that effort?
Imeediately hire the two top Atlanta high school coaches as assistants.
 

Peacone36

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Pastner and his coaches can't recruit. I am most maddened by the lack of shooting. GT has been stuck in getting an athlete or project. Five athletes on the floor with mediocre coaching will stink. Four or five shooters on the floor, can win some unexpected games.

I'd like to see us move on from Pastner, but thats not happening. What I hope will or has happened, is that AD Batt has gotten in Pastner's ear about recruiting, coaching and a plan to improve both moving forward. No reason for GT to not have at least one 4 or 5 star recruit come in each season...NONE. Either Pastner is very lazy recruiter or he has NO charisma to sell a recruit that might be getting offers from more reknowned programs.
Swartz can recruit on a very high level
 

Techwood Relict

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Got it. More talking loud, saying nothing from the audience.

Catch me, I have an opinion.....

Fools Gold Boat GIF by Fool's Gold Records
 

Jacket4Life

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I loved Tech basketball back in the Cremins days. That man could recruit! It hasn't been the same since and starting to believe it never will. I hope Im wrong. Josh is a good guy but below average coach and recruiter. The offense we run is hideous, and it seems like every guy we bring in from the portal that's supposed to be a big time 3 point shooter turns out to be a total bust. Im over it. Time to move on.
 

MWBATL

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I loved Tech basketball back in the Cremins days. That man could recruit! It hasn't been the same since and starting to believe it never will. I hope Im wrong. Josh is a good guy but below average coach and recruiter. The offense we run is hideous, and it seems like every guy we bring in from the portal that's supposed to be a big time 3 point shooter turns out to be a total bust. Im over it. Time to move on.
I don’t think it’s the players’ fault when their shooting looks bad in this offense.
 

4shotB

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I don’t think it’s the players’ fault when their shooting looks bad in this offense.

Good shooters make open looks consistently. If they have to get the ball in a certain position or spots on the floor, then they aren't great shooters, they are just spot shooters. If they have to receive the pass in such a way as to be able to shoot immediately, they are merely set shooters and not great shooters imo. Do we have guys that can effectively create their own shoots off of the dribble or are they entirely dependent on their teammates (penetration, kick outs, ball reversal, screens) to manufacture good looks for them?
 

forensicbuzz

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Good shooters make open looks consistently. If they have to get the ball in a certain position or spots on the floor, then they aren't great shooters, they are just spot shooters. If they have to receive the pass in such a way as to be able to shoot immediately, they are merely set shooters and not great shooters imo. Do we have guys that can effectively create their own shoots off of the dribble or are they entirely dependent on their teammates (penetration, kick outs, ball reversal, screens) to manufacture good looks for them?
This seems weirdly specific for being a "good shooter." To me, a good shooter starts and stops with your first sentence. I'll paraphrase it a little to say good shooters are shooters that make their shots. I don't think it matters whether most of their shots are coming off screens, lost in the corner, stop-and-pop, step-back, fade-away, etc. Good shooters make the shots they take, whether they be wide open or with a hand in their face. History indicates we have good shooters. We're just not shooting well this year for a reason I don't know.
 

4shotB

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This seems weirdly specific for being a "good shooter." To me, a good shooter starts and stops with your first sentence. I'll paraphrase it a little to say good shooters are shooters that make their shots. I don't think it matters whether most of their shots are coming off screens, lost in the corner, stop-and-pop, step-back, fade-away, etc. Good shooters make the shots they take, whether they be wide open or with a hand in their face. History indicates we have good shooters. We're just not shooting well this year for a reason I don't know.
I 100% agree with you. I was just curious about the reference in the post above mine...."the shooting looks bad in this offense"? I am trying to understand that comment a bit better. Stated another way, I can see an offensive system increasing the quantity and/or quality of looks a shooter gets but can not make the player a better shooter.
 
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Steverc

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A good post shooter will shoot about 65%. A good perimeter shooter will shoot about 50% from the field and 45% from the 3 point line. Howard is the only player meeting those standards. I realize a good shooter can go through a slump that my last several games. An entire team does not have a season-long shooting slump. We don't have any good shooters.
 

AUFC

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I 100% agree with you. I was just curious about the reference in the post above mine...."the shooting looks bad in this offense"? I am trying to understand that comment a bit better. Stated another way, I can see an offensive system increasing the quantity and/or quality of looks a shooter gets but can not make the player a better shooter.
I think your expectations are a bit high. There aren’t many players in D1 who are banging home 40% of their 3s off the dribble/contested. When guys are shooting that well, it’s almost always because they are getting wide open looks in-rhythm every time they release their shot. Caleb Love is an elite player known for throwing up garbage looks similar to those that Deebo is taking this year and he’s shooting 29% from 3.

The point I think most of us are making is that if we can manufacture better looks, we have multiple players capable of shooting that 40%+ 3pt shot and making open looks consistently. I can prove that to you based on the looks Mike Devoe and Jordan Usher were able to generate for them last year.

The Sophs are 3 pieces of a future NCAAT team but they need a really good PG and a really good C.
 
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