When does Pastner feel heat

[Jacket4Life]

Actually Hewitt recruited really well. He even still has at least one player still in the NBA. He got top 50 guys a lot--just couldn't coach them at a certain point.

I agree with this. He wasn't the greatest coach but a decent recruiter. Still nowhere near as good as Bobby Cremins.

 

[Peacone36]

Three in 7 years. That is the reason we struggle. We simply have too many holes in the roster. If you are satisfied with less than one every other year you will get the results we consistently see on the court.

Do I read as a person that’s satisfied? It takes a bit more than a good recruiter to get kids to sign at this school. That’s where the peripherals come into play. Swartz is well liked in GA from what I’m told and well respected as a recruiter by media personalities and insiders.

With CY now at Mizzou it wouldn’t be shocking to see FSU calling JS and they resume eating our lunch in GA again.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I agree with this. He wasn't the greatest coach but a decent recruiter. Still nowhere near as good as Bobby Cremins.

His teams fell apart when he decided he was going to be a training program for young black coaches (which I'm fine with if they can coach) and the focus went from making GT Basketball a winning program to GT Basketball being a place where young men can come get individual training and prepare for the NBA. The whole team concept left with his first contract and first set of assistant coaches. He brought in a ton of great players.

 

[reckrider]

This very topic has been rehashed so many times, yet no one pays attention. To move the needle the way many here want, you need somewhere in the range of $30-$35 million.

We’re so far away from that it’s absurd. We can’t even afford social media managers. Josh is far from perfect, but give him better resources, and I’m confident things would look considerably different.

Would they be enough to satisfy the blood thirsty savages known as GT fans? Likely not!

This is a great post. It should be used to close this thread. If you want another coach, cough up $30 million. Otherwise, STFU and find a way to support CJP. He’s not perfect but no one is. He’s a nerd but he’s our nerd.

 

[MWBATL]

I didn’t overrate our players. I didn’t even rate them. I did show our last 7 recruiting classes and the associated player ratings.

One poster said Swartz is a decent recruiter. You mocked him and then he proved his case with three really good recruits in three years. You twisted that to say that he had only three in 7 seasons, so I pulled 7 years of recruiting records. If your claim had been true, I’d have shown that, and I’ve done that for a lot of other posters. Your claim wasn’t justified.

Now you say that I have to choose between the idea that Pastner either can’t develop players (he has, and we’ve seen him do it) or that he’s a terrible recruiter. That’s a false and arbitrary choice, and it’s a smokescreen. Pastner has definitely had some misses and given out some scholarships that he shouldn’t have, but he’s shown an ability to get good players. There are a lot more than two choices here—one is that we don’t have the player funding that a Louisville or Indiana or FSU has.

Would someone like Bruce Pearl do better? Maybe, but he depends on the funding that we don’t have. So do most of the other coaches who are doing better than we are right now. In this case, I’m using Bruce Pearl as an example because he recruits very well and your argument is about our recruiting—what teams with high-level recruiting have our lack of NIL funding? Who has worked around that?

Would Pastner do better with the funding we don’t have? Who knows, but we’ve never seen him have it.

Are there smart, basketball-savvy fans who would like another coach? Yeah, and they’ve mentioned the coaches they like.

Do I think Pastner is an ideal coach or one of the best in the game right now? No, but he’s also handicapped by a number of factors, and there aren’t many coaches who would coach here under the handicaps he has. He is a decent coach who should be better with the right support around him. If we fire Pastner and leave the obstacles in place, we’ll be in about the same situation.

Would I like to see Pastner with a stronger offensive game plan? Yeah, I’ve been obvious about that.

You came into this thread and made claims you couldn’t back up. You got called on it. They backed up their claims—you didn’t.

As unhappy as I am with Pastner, we COULD do worse. There is a real element of “be careful what you wish for” in GT basketball and you outlined them well.

 

[ESPNjacket]

A good post shooter will shoot about 65%. A good perimeter shooter will shoot about 50% from the field and 45% from the 3 point line. Howard is the only player meeting those standards. I realize a good shooter can go through a slump that my last several games. An entire team does not have a season-long shooting slump. We don't have any good shooters.

Dennis Scott in 1990 shot 41.4% from 3.

 

[iopjacket]

Dennis Scott in 1990 shot 41.4% from 3.

I always considered Dennis Scott and Mark Price as excellent shooters.

 

[iopjacket]

Out of your group only Coleman and Kelly weren’t projects that needed a couple of years to develop. Smith is a great athlete but a below average OG and he can’t shoot well enough to play any other position.

Moore appears he will become a good ACC Player. Cyril looks no where close to being ready for ACC play in his limited minutes.

In my opinion you vastly overate our talent. The on court results support my position unless you concede CJP is a bad coach using talented players.

Deivon Smith was rated as 53rd ranked player by Rivals and 64th by 247 out of high school. His position rating PG was 13 by Rivals and 11 by 247.

We need to recruit more and develop inside players. Cyril age wise is a high school senior. He will get better. How much? Nobody really knows.

 

[slugboy]

As unhappy as I am with Pastner, we COULD do worse. There is a real element of “be careful what you wish for” in GT basketball and you outlined them well.

Oriental, dtm, Connell, and Peacone are a lot better on basketball topics than I am (and I’m leaving out some really good posters). I’m “just a guy” on this topic

 

[Steverc]

Coleman, Smith, and Sturdivant all shoot below 70% from the free throw line. If you can't stand 15 feet in front of the basket with no one in front of you and hit 8 our of 10 shots, you are not a good shooter. It is time to accept the reality that these three guys are below average shooters.

 

[YlJacket]

By that definition there are only 10 players in the ACC who are not below average shooters

 

[Fatmike91]

Coleman, Smith, and Sturdivant all shoot below 70% from the free throw line. If you can't stand 15 feet in front of the basket with no one in front of you and hit 8 our of 10 shots, you are not a good shooter. It is time to accept the reality that these three guys are below average shooters.

No. They are just poorly coached.

/

 

[forensicbuzz]

Coleman, Smith, and Sturdivant all shoot below 70% from the free throw line. If you can't stand 15 feet in front of the basket with no one in front of you and hit 8 our of 10 shots, you are not a good shooter. It is time to accept the reality that these three guys are below average shooters.

Troll. Goodbye.

 

[Root4GT]

Deivon Smith was rated as 53rd ranked player by Rivals and 64th by 247 out of high school. His position rating PG was 13 by Rivals and 11 by 247.

We need to recruit more and develop inside players. Cyril age wise is a high school senior. He will get better. How much? Nobody really knows.

Note Smith did not do much as a freshmen at Miss ST or for us last year. He simply can't shoot. In his 3rd year of college BB his best shooting % was 40.3 last year. His best 3 point shooting % was 27.9 as Miss St and his best FT % was 61.5 at Miss ST. Those are terrible numbers for a Point Guard. He is a classic guy who was rated high do to extreme athletic ability. That has not translated to being a good college basketball player. In college guards need to be able to shoot decently. Smith can't.

Our team clearly lacks talent across the board. The 2 ACC teams we have played, Clemson and UNC were clearly stocked with far superior basketball players. That is normal for UNC but it never should be for Clemson.

I suspect UVA will beat us down today. CJP has never beaten Bennett. No reason to think today will be different.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Note Smith did not do much as a freshmen at Miss ST or for us last year. He simply can't shoot. In his 3rd year of college BB his best shooting % was 40.3 last year. His best 3 point shooting % was 27.9 as Miss St and his best FT % was 61.5 at Miss ST. Those are terrible numbers for a Point Guard. He is a classic guy who was rated high do to extreme athletic ability. That has not translated to being a good college basketball player. In college guards need to be able to shoot decently. Smith can't.

Our team clearly lacks talent across the board. The 2 ACC teams we have played, Clemson and UNC were clearly stocked with far superior basketball players. That is normal for UNC but it never should be for Clemson.

I suspect UVA will beat us down today. CJP has never beaten Bennett. No reason to think today will be different.

***OPINION ALERT***

I think if this team had 2 bigs at the same level as Deebo or Kelly, we would have 2-3 losses right now and would be challenging in every game. Not have effective big men has changed the way this team plays and made us a worse team than we should be even with the players we have now. That's on the staff, but that is what it is.

 

[YlJacket]

Note Smith did not do much as a freshmen at Miss ST or for us last year. He simply can't shoot. In his 3rd year of college BB his best shooting % was 40.3 last year. His best 3 point shooting % was 27.9 as Miss St and his best FT % was 61.5 at Miss ST. Those are terrible numbers for a Point Guard. He is a classic guy who was rated high do to extreme athletic ability. That has not translated to being a good college basketball player. In college guards need to be able to shoot decently. Smith can't.

Our team clearly lacks talent across the board. The 2 ACC teams we have played, Clemson and UNC were clearly stocked with far superior basketball players. That is normal for UNC but it never should be for Clemson.

I suspect UVA will beat us down today. CJP has never beaten Bennett. No reason to think today will be different.

FWIW Devion is a plus defender. Having a PG who isn't going to get broken down every play is a requirement to be a good defensive man team.

He also can hit the pull up jumper at the foul line which is often available in this offense. It was one of the flashes of potential I saw in him last year that I hoped would be a bigger part of the game this year - instead of continuing to drive into traffic as we almost always do. And recognizing that teams would almost certainly play under any high ball screen on him, I do think he is fast enough to get to the rim if we were to put him more in space in a more modern 4 offense - whether he was above the top of the key or on the extended wing. Open the paint and make folks help from the corners.

I do agree though that his impact is reduced by his lack of real shooting ability. I just hope he is spending the time in the gym to improve that. He still has time. And I will almost always take a player with the dog he plays with.

 

[WrongShadeOfGold]

As unhappy as I am with Pastner, we COULD do worse. There is a real element of “be careful what you wish for” in GT basketball and you outlined them well.

How could we do worse? The program is going in reverse and no one is watching anymore. Doesn't get much worse than that. Gotta can this nerd and get a real coach. We did Memphis a huge favor and were told we were getting a good recruiter and mediocre coach. From my seat my seat, he looks like a below average recruiter and coach.

 

[Ramble1885]

This was the first game I attended this year. And I get to see us play like THAT. This team is better than this. Our offense is sloppy, our defense gets exploited easily. We have the talent to win games! Today flipped the switch for me. You can’t do that against Clemson and UVA. You just can’t. I love Josh, he’s done a solid job. But you can’t let this continue

 

[SteamWhistle]

We have no offense, we’ve been running the same wrap around a center at the elbow his whole tenure, Works with a Lammers/Moses but not with the roster we have now.

 

[MaverickGT]

Burn it to the ground