What would it take this year for you to be open to the idea that we're on the right track?

What will it take for you to have hope?

  • I am a full-fledged believer

    Votes: 4 1.7%
  • Currently open to the idea / in wait and see

    Votes: 33 14.2%
  • Win x# of games this year

    Votes: 96 41.4%
  • Fire xyz coach

    Votes: 11 4.7%
  • Beat Georgia, or another statement game

    Votes: 29 12.5%
  • Finish with a top # recruiting class

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • There is nothing CGC can do for me to have hope

    Votes: 38 16.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 18 7.8%

  • Total voters
    232
  • Poll closed .

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,121
Location
Augusta, Georgia
Seems to me you wouldn't give a placeholder coach a 7-year contract, and I imagine the recruiting successes thus far have come to an end unless this team can turn it around fast.

Yes, the defensive regression is a head scratcher.

I've spoken with several mid-level donors and a friend of mine who works for the GTAA. Contrary to popular belief on these boards, coaches weren't lined up to take on this rebuild. The 7 year contract was a way to assure the new hire that GT would be patient during this process, which indicates that much of what I said earlier (4-5 year timeframe to rebuild) was understood by the GTAA as critical to ensure a quality hire. Now, we can argue all day about whether CGC is quality, but he was at or near the top of the list as to who was willing to take on this project. No, a 7 year contract is not ideal, but we were in a far from ideal situation at the time. Hard to negotiate from a position of weakness.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,193
@CuseJacket I put other, and I'd like to expound on that for a bit. Probably TLDR for some.

Like others on this board was a big fan of CPJ and option football. While I have been a GT fan all my life, thanks to a die hard grandfather who refused to let my dad pollute my mind with uga football on Saturdays when I was growing up. Although I am a sidewalk fan, I am a devoted fan. Prior to CPJ, I had attended a handful of games. Starting in 2008, I began to attend more frequently, as the excitement the program had built infected me. In 2012, I became a full fledged Season ticket holder and started donating to the GTAA. (Note, my STs do not require an A-T donation. I donate anyways)

When CPJ retired, I was disappointed, but as I said, I was a fan prior to CPJ, and I will remain a fan following him. Unlike other CPJ fans, I was not a proponent for hiring Monken or Bohannen. I felt, and still feel, that the drop off from CPJ and any other coaches on his tree is steep, and CPJ struggled at times with the recruiting restrictions that are inherent with running his offense. Moving away from the offense seemed logical to me, but it meant coming to terms with the fact that we would likely enter a wilderness of 3-5 years of losing football.

Enter Collins. My initial impression of him was that he reminded me too much of Butch Jones. Fair or not, the man gives off serious used car salesman vibes. Everything about his first few months here screamed style over substance. Then came the seemingly unending digs at his predecessor in interviews. You can argue that he didn't intend them as insults, but considering how laser focused he is on "brand" and saying the right things, I find that hard to believe. In the end, however, I tend towards pragmatism. CGC is our coach, whether I like him or not, and his success is my success as a fan. Initial recruiting wins were promising, and the first full recruiting class in '20 gave me solid hope for the future. While the sideline schtick and money down crap wear thin, if it leads to recruiting in the top 25, I can endure.

Over the last two years I have been a consistent voice in giving him and his coordinators time to assemble their team. I appreciate that transitioning away from the CPJ system to his was going to be much harder than many thought. Unlike most new hires, he didn't inherit a team with traditional players on offense. We were loaded with OL who weren't the right size and didn't have the right skillset, and our ABs and QBs were nowhere near what we needed to run his offense. We can argue semantics about "football is football," but the reality is that we didn't have the right players in our system to run the offense. Getting them in is going to take time. The transfer portal helps some, but in our biggest area of need, OL, it doesn't help enough. I contend that we are leaning heavily on it right now so that he can build class separation on OL instead of having to spend all of his slots in 1-2 years on OL and start over every 3-4 years. While this gets us some proven OL individuals, the reality is that OL is an evolving organism. It takes a while for a line to gel and learn to work with each other. Simply plugging in a more talented OG or OT doesn't necessarily make the OL better. We are going to continue to see struggles here for at least another year or two. We are seeing definite progress, but it's going to take more time to get it to where it needs to be.

QB is the next project, and Sims could be the answer. He needs a lot of work though, and we need to continue to develop him and Yates while seeking to replace both, as every other program is doing with their QBs. If the OL gets fixed in a year or two, and we can develop Sims/Yates, we stand a real good chance of having a successful season in the next year or two. our Rbs are probably the deepest in the nation, and WRs are talented but young and raw. We need time, and some degree of patience from the fan base, for all of this to develop.

Defense is another story altogether. CGC is billed as a three time Broyles award nominee on defense, and yet GT is regressing here. I expected 2019 to be bad simply because of how bad our offense was going to be, leaving the D on the field to get gassed. The continued regression in 2020 is harder to understand. The secondary, which is supposedly a CGC strongpoint, is a major weakness for us in spite of considerable talent on the field. I am not a defensive mastermind, so I will leave it for others to diagnose, but the impression right now is that our defense is vastly underperforming considering talent and the pedigree of the HC, as well as the fact that, unlike the offense, it did not require a major transition.

With all this being said, in spite of all the antics and lack of success, I still believe that CGC can redeem this. As I stated earlier on this board, I saw enough in the last game to give me hope that CDP as OC can work here. My confidence in the DC is somewhat lessened though, especially since the 22 formation seemed to stump them.

So, what would it take for me? A combination of things:

1. Progress on the field. I need to see a QB that can run an offense and hit short open passes reliably, not just take off and get 15-20 yards as a RB.
2. Wins against KSU and Duke this year. After NIU, I don't know that I can reasonably expect our team to beat anyone else on our schedule.
3. A change in tone. I don't need CGC to all of a sudden become the curmudgeon that CPJ was, but I would like to see less "elite" and more "real" in his press conferences.
4. An upset win that has to do with our progress, not the other teams regression.
5. Continued recruiting success, not just transfers.
6. Reconfiguring of staff to upgrade assistants.

Any three of those 6 will give me hope. I have lost a lot of faith in CGC as a coach, but not all faith.
If we go 2-10 with our only wins being over KSU and Duke then we almost have to make a change. We may not have a fan base left if we just put off the inevitable for two years after that. At that point we risk killing the program entirely.
 

1BearJACKET

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
374
Location
Southern Crescent
I voted other. I would like to see either Collins or Patenaude say in their upcoming press conference that regardless of the Sims injury, his performance was not up to the standard that we hold for a starting QB, and that going forward he will be the recipient of some intense coaching, scrutiny, and competition, that repeated poor performances of the type he had this past Saturday will mean less playing time for him and let the chips fall where they may.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,734
I've spoken with several mid-level donors and a friend of mine who works for the GTAA. Contrary to popular belief on these boards, coaches weren't lined up to take on this rebuild. The 7 year contract was a way to assure the new hire that GT would be patient during this process, which indicates that much of what I said earlier (4-5 year timeframe to rebuild) was understood by the GTAA as critical to ensure a quality hire. Now, we can argue all day about whether CGC is quality, but he was at or near the top of the list as to who was willing to take on this project. No, a 7 year contract is not ideal, but we were in a far from ideal situation at the time. Hard to negotiate from a position of weakness.
I imagine they could have offered him a 5-year contract and he would have taken it. This is year three, and with the personnel Collins has added we should be turning the corner. I give him credit for the personnel improvements, but the coaching has been atrocious. I don't think Eliot at Clemson was even contacted. I guess Stansbury wanted someone with HC experience, but he missed the boat IMO because Eliot will make someone a great head coach someday. That having been said, I didn't think Collins was such a bad hire at the time, all things considered. Boy, was I wrong...

I don't think they were "lining up" for the job, but we could have done better.
 

AlabamaBuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,051
Location
Hartselle, AL (originally Rome, GA)
I imagine they could have offered him a 5-year contract and he would have taken it. This is year three, and with the personnel Collins has added we should be turning the corner. I give him credit for the personnel improvements, but the coaching has been atrocious. I don't think Eliot at Clemson was even contacted. I guess Stansbury wanted someone with HC experience, but he missed the boat IMO because Eliot will make someone a great head coach someday. That having been said, I didn't think Collins was such a bad hire at the time, all things considered. Boy, was I wrong...
Well, you were not the only one who was wrong, so don't feel bad about that. For me, his overt, salesman personality with catchphrases and platitudes just sent up a big red flag. I think a lot of us who over the years have worked with guys with this personality believed there was reason for concern. Although, I kept admitting that in some rare instances, a person with this "rah,rah" personallity can also have job skills and tangible management ability. I was hoping CGC was this rare case.
 

JDjacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
634
I think the O/U win total for GT going into the year was 4.5... at the moment looking like the under could hit. Now our schedule is pretty nightmarish considering we had 4 top 10 teams on our schedule (now 3 because UNC... but maybe VT eventually climbs in). I'm not expecting us to beat UGA or Clemson (although robbing UGA of what at the moment looks like the stars aligning finally for them would be the greatest thing ever), but if the rest of the season makes the NIU game look like an outlier I could be more forgiving.

At the current moment in time though, I'm already starting to look forward to basketball season....
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,121
Location
Augusta, Georgia
I imagine they could have offered him a 5-year contract and he would have taken it. This is year three, and with the personnel Collins has added we should be turning the corner. I give him credit for the personnel improvements, but the coaching has been atrocious. I don't think Eliot at Clemson was even contacted. I guess Stansbury wanted someone with HC experience, but he missed the boat IMO because Eliot will make someone a great head coach someday. That having been said, I didn't think Collins was such a bad hire at the time, all things considered. Boy, was I wrong...

I don't think they were "lining up" for the job, but we could have done better.

Imagination is a great thing but it is rarely grounded in reality...
 

cthenrys

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
942
Location
Highland Village, TX
Seems to me you wouldn't give a placeholder coach a 7-year contract, and I imagine the recruiting successes thus far have come to an end unless this team can turn it around fast.

Yes, the defensive regression is a head scratcher.
He was definitely not viewed as a placeholder. TS thought he had found his guy - I get that. We’ve all made bad hires. The 7 year contract was a disaster - there was no need whatsoever to do that.
 

smokey_wasp

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,486
I voted other. I would like to see either Collins or Patenaude say in their upcoming press conference that regardless of the Sims injury, his performance was not up to the standard that we hold for a starting QB, and that going forward he will be the recipient of some intense coaching, scrutiny, and competition, that repeated poor performances of the type he had this past Saturday will mean less playing time for him and let the chips fall where they may.

Spoiler: Collins did not say that at all in his presser. Said he was playing really good.
 

Heisman's Ghost

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,938
Location
Albany Georgia
Well, you were not the only one who was wrong, so don't feel bad about that. For me, his overt, salesman personality with catchphrases and platitudes just sent up a big red flag. I think a lot of us who over the years have worked with guys with this personality believed there was reason for concern. Although, I kept admitting that in some rare instances, a person with this "rah,rah" personallity can also have job skills and tangible management ability. I was hoping CGC was this rare case.
I was wrong about him as well. I thought for sure that he would recruit the 404 like gangbusters and we would be reeling in talent that wanted to stay home. Silly me, I had forgotten that many programs had tried the great recruiter gambit only to come to grief when facing a well coached team that brushed aside the smoke and mirrors much as Northern Illinois did Saturday. I believe this will end in one of two ways: A complete and utter fiasco of a season with three or fewer wins that results in major housecleaning or a miraculous turnaround by the players who have received a wakeup call and respond to it with character and accept the challenge to get better. I do not think there will be a middle of the road, muddling through enough to just save face. It is do or die.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,734
I don't know about that. Every man has his price. Wave enough money in front of most of these guys and they will cut a Faustian bargain with the Devil in a heart beat.
I don't see how Geoff Collins is so high and mighty that he wouldn't have taken a 5-year contract. If he refused that Stansbury should have told him to pound salt. We should be so lucky...
 

AlabamaBuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,051
Location
Hartselle, AL (originally Rome, GA)
Listen, Collins actively sought out Todd for this job. There is no way he would not have accepted a 5 year deal (with some type of school option after 3 of extending). He knew that he was not going to be able to maintain the level of success at Temple his predecessor had created, so he was "jumping at the chance" to get the GT offer. Now, who knows what he actually said, but this is what I believe was the case. Maybe he convinced Todd of the longer contract, but that doesn't mean he wasn't willing to come to GT for less guaranteed years.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,044
I was wrong about him as well. I thought for sure that he would recruit the 404 like gangbusters and we would be reeling in talent that wanted to stay home. Silly me, I had forgotten that many programs had tried the great recruiter gambit only to come to grief when facing a well coached team that brushed aside the smoke and mirrors much as Northern Illinois did Saturday.
I am starting to feel as though GT is dah U but with lesser talent. I am hoping that they can take that image away from me before I actually start to believe that.
 

cthenrys

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
942
Location
Highland Village, TX
Listen, Collins actively sought out Todd for this job. There is no way he would not have accepted a 5 year deal (with some type of school option after 3 of extending). He knew that he was not going to be able to maintain the level of success at Temple his predecessor had created, so he was "jumping at the chance" to get the GT offer. Now, who knows what he actually said, but this is what I believe was the case. Maybe he convinced Todd of the longer contract, but that doesn't mean he wasn't willing to come to GT for less guaranteed years.
Collins agent did an amazing job hoodwinking TS
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,121
Location
Augusta, Georgia
You're saying he wouldn't have taken a 5-year contract? That doesn't sound like reality to me.

I've said many times before on this board that I have a friend who works for the GTAA. He has never led me wrong. When we were talking shortly after the hire, I expressed my dismay for the 7 year contract. I was assured that even GT did not want to offer a 7 year contract, but EVERY candidate that showed serious interest demanded between 7-8 years based on the understanding that they would likely have to undergo several losing seasons in order to churn the roster and get us back to winning football. The reality is that without a long contract, we would have hamstrung the new coach to the point where they couldn't rebuild the program. I don't like it any more than you do, but IIWII. Collins and his agents demanded a long contract. You can listen to all his talk about coming home and dream job and think maybe, just maybe, he'd have taken 5, but he wouldn't. Remember, this is the same man who continually calls us "elite." We had no leverage to get a shorter contract or a lessened buyout.
 
Top