What if football went away?

link3945

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
101
I've written about this before here. If you want to blame something for the problem the culprit is obvious: antibiotics and good nutrition. It used to be that nobody - and I mean nobody - grew to the full extent of their genetic potential. My mother had typhoid fever when she was 12 and almost died. Her father died of influenza after WW1. Now, we worry about people getting sick as they get old. And the kids get to grow to their full size and strength.

Result = a massive basic physics problem for modern football. I played in high school and college in the mid 60s. The largest player I ever faced was Charles "Buddha" Slayton, all 5'11", 255 lbs of him. The Buddha was easily the biggest player in Atlanta; today, there are 8th graders that big. If you have a collection of young, fast, well-trained men who typically weigh in the 230 - 320 lb range running around a field hitting each other, you will have injury problems. Provide them with helmets and protective gear for their head and neck and you'll have them running into each other full speed and head first. (Charging penalties for head to head collisions won't stop the damage, btw.) And - surprise, surprise - you end up with an epidemic of head injuries and the longer the young men play the worse it gets.

This won't "kill" football; the sport is too engrained into our entertainment culture. But it will, as pointed out above, choke off the supply of football players over the long term and relegate the sport to a much less prominent role. If I had faced the choice then, I would have discouraged my son from playing, though, as it turned out, he liked lacrosse better. If I had to predict what will happen, I'd guess that we'll see rugby beginning to catch on more here. It's a rough sport, but the lack of helmets and pads leads to a different kind of play with fewer major injuries. But football will never go away.

One other thing: as concern for head injuries goes up, I wouldn't be surprised to see more emphasis on amateur pro leagues. The colleges will slowly become less accommodating and the pros will do what they do in Europe: start teams for young people who a) really want to play football and b) really don't want to go to college. Here the equation become simpler: you know the risks and you voluntarily took them so you could get a chance to play pro ball. This used to be a regular way to get into the pros in the early days (the AAU was a main source) and could easily come back.

I'll miss big time college football as it diminishes. I really enjoy watching the game. But I like boxing too and I'm glad it is no longer taught in high schools or a part of high school or college athletics (it used to be huge). I see the same trajectory of the college game and, perhaps, for the pros.
It's not just the lack of helmets and pads that makes rugby safer. You don't have to fight for each additional yard in rugby like you do in football. Each individual yard matters less, so you can use a safer, more drawn out form of tackling.
 

Animal02

Banned
Messages
6,269
Location
Southeastern Michigan
That's the old Richard Nixon gambit, and don't take it personally. Nixon was big on "some say I should bomb the Soviet Union, and others say I should just surrender, but I have chosen a wise middle path ..." and we would breath a sigh of relief that the wise Richard Nixon was our president. Nobody has suggested a threat-free environment. But don't confuse concussions, early on-set dementia or CTE with scratches or even broken limbs. It trivializes the dangers, with what is now known as false equivalences and they are anything but trivial.
How many cases of CTE etc for those participating in college but not at the pro level?
 

Animal02

Banned
Messages
6,269
Location
Southeastern Michigan
I've written about this before here. If you want to blame something for the problem the culprit is obvious: antibiotics and good nutrition. It used to be that nobody - and I mean nobody - grew to the full extent of their genetic potential. My mother had typhoid fever when she was 12 and almost died. Her father died of influenza after WW1. Now, we worry about people getting sick as they get old. And the kids get to grow to their full size and strength.

Result = a massive basic physics problem for modern football. I played in high school and college in the mid 60s. The largest player I ever faced was Charles "Buddha" Slayton, all 5'11", 255 lbs of him. The Buddha was easily the biggest player in Atlanta; today, there are 8th graders that big. If you have a collection of young, fast, well-trained men who typically weigh in the 230 - 320 lb range running around a field hitting each other, you will have injury problems. Provide them with helmets and protective gear for their head and neck and you'll have them running into each other full speed and head first. (Charging penalties for head to head collisions won't stop the damage, btw.) And - surprise, surprise - you end up with an epidemic of head injuries and the longer the young men play the worse it gets.

This won't "kill" football; the sport is too engrained into our entertainment culture. But it will, as pointed out above, choke off the supply of football players over the long term and relegate the sport to a much less prominent role. If I had faced the choice then, I would have discouraged my son from playing, though, as it turned out, he liked lacrosse better. If I had to predict what will happen, I'd guess that we'll see rugby beginning to catch on more here. It's a rough sport, but the lack of helmets and pads leads to a different kind of play with fewer major injuries. But football will never go away.

One other thing: as concern for head injuries goes up, I wouldn't be surprised to see more emphasis on amateur pro leagues. The colleges will slowly become less accommodating and the pros will do what they do in Europe: start teams for young people who a) really want to play football and b) really don't want to go to college. Here the equation become simpler: you know the risks and you voluntarily took them so you could get a chance to play pro ball. This used to be a regular way to get into the pros in the early days (the AAU was a main source) and could easily come back.

I'll miss big time college football as it diminishes. I really enjoy watching the game. But I like boxing too and I'm glad it is no longer taught in high schools or a part of high school or college athletics (it used to be huge). I see the same trajectory of the college game and, perhaps, for the pros.
Agree completely....in the late '70s, coming out of H.S. at 6'6" 230lb playing OL (started as a senior only) I was not fast, but not slow either. I got offers from lower tier D1 simply because of my size. Today, I would not cut it in D2 and would be nothing special in D3
 

Oakland

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,271
Location
Georgia
I think everyone is going wind up wearing very large, fat helmets. I could see the Ivy League dropping down to flag football or frisbee, but football as we know it is not going to disappear anytime soon. Heck, we're recruiting players from Europe now.
 

SteamWhistle

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,435
Location
Rome, GA
The game is safer now then it has ever been, you won’t see guys 20-30 years from now having CTE. The old helmets of the past are results in the high numbers we see today. Plus Football isn’t dying it’s actually growing, more and more countries are starting to play. Hell we just got a DE from Germany this recruiting class, and should’ve got one last year. The whole it’s becoming 7 on 7 doesn’t make sense to me, guys are bigger faster stronger and playimg Football at a high level, it’s fun to watch better athletes make better plays.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
How many cases of CTE etc for those participating in college but not at the pro level?
Don't have a clue, but surely you are not suggesting that CTE is somehow quarantined to the NFL? The players are the same, you know. And let's remember one does not have to get hit in the head, or get his head bounced off the turf, to get a concussion. I know of one particular case in which a kid was almost killed with a clean, head-on, in the chest tackle that drove him backward ... the doctor who saved him and then had to battle his parents to keep him from ever playing football again noted his head stopped suddenly, but his brain sloshed against the skull. So it might all be blows to the head, though most are.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
The game is safer now then it has ever been, you won’t see guys 20-30 years from now having CTE. The old helmets of the past are results in the high numbers we see today. Plus Football isn’t dying it’s actually growing, more and more countries are starting to play. Hell we just got a DE from Germany this recruiting class, and should’ve got one last year. The whole it’s becoming 7 on 7 doesn’t make sense to me, guys are bigger faster stronger and playimg Football at a high level, it’s fun to watch better athletes make better plays.
Even if true it still leaves you a 30-year window for a national health debacle, but frankly no helmet is going to prevent that damage. It just can't. I'm not really arguing to abolish the sport, though I do feel over time it will be.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,580
Don't have a clue, but surely you are not suggesting that CTE is somehow quarantined to the NFL? The players are the same, you know. And let's remember one does not have to get hit in the head, or get his head bounced off the turf, to get a concussion. I know of one particular case in which a kid was almost killed with a clean, head-on, in the chest tackle that drove him backward ... the doctor who saved him and then had to battle his parents to keep him from ever playing football again noted his head stopped suddenly, but his brain sloshed against the skull. So it might all be blows to the head, though most are.

My thought is that it isn't confined to the NFL but that it would probably be found to be occurring less among those who played only as far as college, and still less among those who played it only in high school. Which, actually (and somewhat ironically) would be just more confirmation that football is certainly causing it.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,580
Even if true it still leaves you a 30-year window for a national health debacle, but frankly no helmet is going to prevent that damage. It just can't. I'm not really arguing to abolish the sport, though I do feel over time it will be.

From what I can gather, experts in the field generally agree that even the most improved helmet is not possibly going to be able to get rid of the problem entirely, though it will help.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
14,220
Even if true it still leaves you a 30-year window for a national health debacle, but frankly no helmet is going to prevent that damage. It just can't. I'm not really arguing to abolish the sport, though I do feel over time it will be.
I'm really worried about my nephew. He's 6'5", 250, agile and strong as an ox as a rising 9th grader. He'll likely be a starting or highly used reserve OL as a freshman on his hs team in the largest division in Georgia. My brother is not sure how to advise him. His son loves the game.
 

gtwcf

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
516
The game is safer now then it has ever been, you won’t see guys 20-30 years from now having CTE. The old helmets of the past are results in the high numbers we see today. Plus Football isn’t dying it’s actually growing, more and more countries are starting to play. Hell we just got a DE from Germany this recruiting class, and should’ve got one last year. The whole it’s becoming 7 on 7 doesn’t make sense to me, guys are bigger faster stronger and playimg Football at a high level, it’s fun to watch better athletes make better plays.

There are guys playing in the last 10 years who have CTE symptoms. Practice on most teams are getting lighter, and there is additional safety equipment being used during practice, but I think as long as you have the momentum players (fast at 250lbs+) of college and NFL, you're going to have CTE issues.
 

Animal02

Banned
Messages
6,269
Location
Southeastern Michigan
Don't have a clue, but surely you are not suggesting that CTE is somehow quarantined to the NFL? The players are the same, you know. And let's remember one does not have to get hit in the head, or get his head bounced off the turf, to get a concussion. I know of one particular case in which a kid was almost killed with a clean, head-on, in the chest tackle that drove him backward ... the doctor who saved him and then had to battle his parents to keep him from ever playing football again noted his head stopped suddenly, but his brain sloshed against the skull. So it might all be blows to the head, though most are.
Not quarantined....just wondering if the severity steps up significantly .
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
I'm really worried about my nephew. He's 6'5", 250, agile and strong as an ox as a rising 9th grader. He'll likely be a starting or highly used reserve OL as a freshman on his hs team in the largest division in Georgia. My brother is not sure how to advise him. His son loves the game.
I get it. I played. My sons played. My sons now say their sons won't be allowed to play. There is a lot to love about football, the Fedoras of this world aside. (My first year of varsity football gave me more confidence in myself than I ever thought possible, and not just blocking and tackling. ) And there is much to fear from it.
 

Jerry the Jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,945
Location
Chapin, SC
This is just more pussified liberal bull crap! Nobody is going to ban football. They will soon be paying college players and betting on the games and it will be the biggest money making scheme on the planet! Don't sweat it.

Go Jackets!
 

redmule

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
664
That's the old Richard Nixon gambit, and don't take it personally. Nixon was big on "some say I should bomb the Soviet Union, and others say I should just surrender, but I have chosen a wise middle path ..." and we would breath a sigh of relief that the wise Richard Nixon was our president. Nobody has suggested a threat-free environment. But don't confuse concussions, early on-set dementia or CTE with scratches or even broken limbs. It trivializes the dangers, with what is now known as false equivalences and they are anything but trivial.

Not saying they are trivial, but my question remains. Why not outlaw .........? I dearly love snow skiing. I have been in the first aid buildings of several ski areas because of injuries (mostly minor, but a couple of major) to myself, friends and family. In skiing, you have people of different abilities, different degrees of risk taking, varying conditions on any given run, skiing near trees and in crowded conditions, skiing faster than any human can run, with little to no protective gear, full grown adults on the same slope as small children, varying degrees of physical conditioning, low oxygen, etc. IMO, football comes nowhere near the immediate danger and probably not on long term debilities. Colorado alone incurs double digit deaths on ski mountains each year. I would guess an order of magnitude greater cases of permanent paralysis. On a side note, if you are going to suffer a broken vertebrae or major limb damage, a ski mountain is probably the best place to do it. They see stuff like that routinely.
 

GoldZ

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
912
From what I can gather, experts in the field generally agree that even the most improved helmet is not possibly going to be able to get rid of the problem entirely, though it will help.
Probably not much, unless the improved helmets can soften the inside of the skull, toughen/cushion the outer layer of the brain, and/or change the laws of physics. CTE may be the largest threat, but $ and thuggery are threats too---ask the NFL about viewership rates and attendance figures, not to mention arrest rate trends.
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Staff member
Messages
12,106
Location
Marietta, GA
Remember, that a fall from 300 feet isn't what kills you. It's a sudden stop at the bottom.

Same thing regarding CTE, it doesn't take a hit to the head to cause the severe head injury. Having the brain sloshing around and slam against the skull will do the same.

With that, I expect to see more penalties called 4 using the head I would love for it go back to fewer pads and basic helmets.

Agree thatthe biggest reason for the additional and worst injuries today is due to nutrition and health. As noted earlier above 40 years ago someone being 6' 6", 280lber was a major exception. Today there are high school kids with those builds.
 
Top