What if football went away?

orientalnc

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The pipeline for football is in serious decline. The football hierarchy in NC clings to the meme that soccer has to be played in the Spring because there would not be enough kids to play soccer in the Fall. So, soccer has to compete with baseball and outdoor track for participants. The truth is that soccer would raid the football rosters in the Fall to the point where more schools would abandon football or switch to 6-man or 8-man leagues.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcoo...-death-its-not-just-concussions/#79a4a09f7540
 

MWBATL

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I will write it off as an unfortunate choice of words. But worrying about the short and long-term health effects on individuals and the health care system of this country -- already not one to boast about when compared with other western countries -- is really not meddling, any more than reacting to a measles epidemic is meddling. It needs to be considered and if fears and experience drive parents to keep their children out of football, then so be it. Believe it or not the country will survive, despite what Larry Fedora's hysterical save-my-phoney-baloney job ranting claimed. I would miss it on the college level, but if tomorrow they banished the NFL I wouldn't blink an eye.
While I also could care less about the NFL, this topic is devolving into more of a political thread than a football thread.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I love college football above any other organized sport, but I would start following hockey, tennis, and other sports I follow more closely. As much as I follow football (near obsessively), I don't think it would be that hard for me to move on with time. Granted, football would never be gone. It's too big of a money maker and too ingrained in American society. If anything, it would undergo massive changes to limit hits and make it more of a finesse sport (i.e. more 7 vs. 7). Honestly, we should do away with things like kickoffs already since they have so little impact on the game, but carry the most risk for injury. There are already changes to be made, but I feel like the NCAA and NFL hold off to avoid a slippery slope.
USF.
 
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TechPreacher

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Seems to me I read an article in WebMD that said the highest incidence of concussions is in Women's Soccer.

Let's just outlaw everything people get hurt doing. Start with selfies in National Parks. Ever been in the First Aid building at a major ski resort?

I saw kids playing soccer Saturday morning, and there were more opportunities for concussions in that game than I see in a Friday night high school football game
 

Skeptic

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...Let's just outlaw everything people get hurt doing. Start with selfies in National Parks. Ever been in the First Aid building at a major ski resort?
That's the old Richard Nixon gambit, and don't take it personally. Nixon was big on "some say I should bomb the Soviet Union, and others say I should just surrender, but I have chosen a wise middle path ..." and we would breath a sigh of relief that the wise Richard Nixon was our president. Nobody has suggested a threat-free environment. But don't confuse concussions, early on-set dementia or CTE with scratches or even broken limbs. It trivializes the dangers, with what is now known as false equivalences and they are anything but trivial.
 

takethepoints

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The 2 co-authors discuss CTE and what they percieve as a lack of science behind it. You should check it out, or you can just Google the cliffsnotes.
This is described in the NYT article as the "tobacco industry" strategy. The NFL and, probably, the colleges have known about the concussion and brain trauma problem for years and have done all they can to sweep it under the rug. This book is a second phase product: an attempt to brush away the obvious by calling the science into doubt. I'm surprised you fell for it.
 

Whiskey_Clear

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More MMA and juijitsu hopefully. Watching world class guys at matamoris etc is riveting. Physical chess match. If the commentators aren’t excellent though the audience won’t see/understand 80% of what’s going on.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I saw kids playing soccer Saturday morning, and there were more opportunities for concussions in that game than I see in a Friday night high school football game
Some say the repetitive nature and accumulative effect of sub-concussive injuries, ones that don't even require kids to come out, are the real danger in football.
 

Milwaukee

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This is described in the NYT article as the "tobacco industry" strategy. The NFL and, probably, the colleges have known about the concussion and brain trauma problem for years and have done all they can to sweep it under the rug. This book is a second phase product: an attempt to brush away the obvious by calling the science into doubt. I'm surprised you fell for it.

Huh?
 

takethepoints

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I've written about this before here. If you want to blame something for the problem the culprit is obvious: antibiotics and good nutrition. It used to be that nobody - and I mean nobody - grew to the full extent of their genetic potential. My mother had typhoid fever when she was 12 and almost died. Her father died of influenza after WW1. Now, we worry about people getting sick as they get old. And the kids get to grow to their full size and strength.

Result = a massive basic physics problem for modern football. I played in high school and college in the mid 60s. The largest player I ever faced was Charles "Buddha" Slayton, all 5'11", 255 lbs of him. The Buddha was easily the biggest player in Atlanta; today, there are 8th graders that big. If you have a collection of young, fast, well-trained men who typically weigh in the 230 - 320 lb range running around a field hitting each other, you will have injury problems. Provide them with helmets and protective gear for their head and neck and you'll have them running into each other full speed and head first. (Charging penalties for head to head collisions won't stop the damage, btw.) And - surprise, surprise - you end up with an epidemic of head injuries and the longer the young men play the worse it gets.

This won't "kill" football; the sport is too engrained into our entertainment culture. But it will, as pointed out above, choke off the supply of football players over the long term and relegate the sport to a much less prominent role. If I had faced the choice then, I would have discouraged my son from playing, though, as it turned out, he liked lacrosse better. If I had to predict what will happen, I'd guess that we'll see rugby beginning to catch on more here. It's a rough sport, but the lack of helmets and pads leads to a different kind of play with fewer major injuries. But football will never go away.

One other thing: as concern for head injuries goes up, I wouldn't be surprised to see more emphasis on amateur pro leagues. The colleges will slowly become less accommodating and the pros will do what they do in Europe: start teams for young people who a) really want to play football and b) really don't want to go to college. Here the equation become simpler: you know the risks and you voluntarily took them so you could get a chance to play pro ball. This used to be a regular way to get into the pros in the early days (the AAU was a main source) and could easily come back.

I'll miss big time college football as it diminishes. I really enjoy watching the game. But I like boxing too and I'm glad it is no longer taught in high schools or a part of high school or college athletics (it used to be huge). I see the same trajectory of the college game and, perhaps, for the pros.
 

takethepoints

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I saw kids playing soccer Saturday morning, and there were more opportunities for concussions in that game than I see in a Friday night high school football game
They're addressing that, particularly for girls. Apparently - who knew? - young women are more susceptible to head injuries then young men. They don't allow girls to do headers until they are teenagers in most leagues.

But, yes, soccer has a head injury problem too, though not anywhere near as severe as for football.
 

dressedcheeseside

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They're addressing that, particularly for girls. Apparently - who knew? - young women are more susceptible to head injuries then young men. They don't allow girls to do headers until they are teenagers in most leagues.

But, yes, soccer has a head injury problem too, though not anywhere near as severe as for football.
Is that also due to the repetitive nature of headers and the associated accumulative damage?
 

GTJason

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Yeah the only question there used to be about CTE existing or not is there was no good way to diagnose it without physically examining the brain. This could only be done on dead patients. New imaging techniques have demonstrated remarkable accuracy at diagnosing it, but it's a time consuming process. Someone needs to sign up for the clinical trial who has a history of concussions, get imaged regularly, die, then get examined to prove the findings of the imaging. Any number of things can kick a patient out of the trial like not showing up for a session, moving away, circumstances of death, family members not allowing an autopsy, etc. Out of the hundred or so patients enrolled only a few have made it through the entire process and basically the scans were accurate. This isn't pseudo-science, it's real.

On the other hand there are plenty of people who work jobs that injure them and decrease life expectancy. Truck drivers get skin cancer, back problems, and obesity at higher rates than the general population. Anyone in a blue collar/ physical labor job could be destroying their joints. The list goes on and on. The issue I could see is allowing kids to play football before their brain has stopped developing. It's an ethics question in my mind. As long as there are people who will watch, there will always be football.
 

gtwcf

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There will always be a desire for gladiator games. Whether football is one of them is up for debate, but the basic instinct will always be there.
 
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