Virginia Postgame

[Augusta_Jacket]

Mechanics = teachable. Vision= non-teachable. House may help Brady not fall into bad habits, but what Brady has above his shoulders, House can not and does not help him with. Brees was born with uncanny accuracy, much like Roof, Burnett, and Tillman could tackle when they arrived on campus day one. Nature>>nuture.

So was Roof able to tackle correctly the first time he stepped on a football field? Just because a player showed up to college able to tackle does not mean he wasn't taught along the line somewhere. Also, there are plenty of people with 20/15 or even 20/10 vision. I had 20/15 vision in high school. I could play baseball but couldn't pitch well or throw a football any better than average. The best players, like Brady, Ted Williams, or Michael Jordan, have a mixture of both. Jordan is arguably the best NBA player ever, didn't make the varsity squad at his HS the first time he tried out.

 

[bobongo]

Babe Ruth was a great pitcher as well as a slugger.

Point well taken, but just to point out, Shohei Ohtani hit 46 home runs and went 9-2 as a pitcher last year. Just sayin'...

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Point well taken, but just to point out, Shohei Ohtani hit 46 home runs and went 9-2 as a pitcher last year. Just sayin'...

True. But he's a modern day baseball unicorn. We live in the era of specialization. We are unlikely to see this become the norm.

Edit to add he's not the only dual pitcher/slugger out there. Rick Ankiel converted from a pitcher to an outfielder in the early 2000's and was a pretty good player.

 

[GoldZ]

I really recommend “The Sports Gene” as a great read. Here’s an article from a few years ago about it: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/are-elite-athletes-born-or-made/

Vision and speed are teachable and trainable. There are genes out there where some athletes will have higher ceilings (Chuck Yeager actually has an unusual ability to focus, and it’s genetic). However, not every ace has that. Vision and reading defenses are as much nurture as nature, maybe even more.

Nah, my life experiences tell me differently. It's not as if it's a zero sum deal. I'd say 80/20 or 90/10 in favor of nature. If nuture was a dominant factor, then we'd have a lot more Calvins, Bradys, and Jordans out there for everybody to see. It's kinda like the Stanford track coach in the 80s said in ref to his future Olympic star, Carl Lewis with wtte: I could go out and find a dozen of him.........he's still looking for one. Anyone wonder why the dominate D-1 programs look similar year after year in football? And, Kenyan marathoners say Hi.

 

[GoldZ]

So was Roof able to tackle correctly the first time he stepped on a football field? Just because a player showed up to college able to tackle does not mean he wasn't taught along the line somewhere. Also, there are plenty of people with 20/15 or even 20/10 vision. I had 20/15 vision in high school. I could play baseball but couldn't pitch well or throw a football any better than average. The best players, like Brady, Ted Williams, or Michael Jordan, have a mixture of both. Jordan is arguably the best NBA player ever, didn't make the varsity squad at his HS the first time he tried out.

Augusta, vision is just one example I used. Of course it's a mixture of both and yes Ted had some early schooling on tackling, but so did thousands of other kids that couldn't tackle you or me. The point is, innate ability trumps coaching instruction. Why wasn't Saban even close to the success he had at LSU and Bama, at Michigan State?

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

The point is, innate ability trumps coaching instruction.

We will just disagree there. I've seen too many extremely talented but un-coachable youth completely flame out.

 

[forensicbuzz]

We can't wait two more years. So many QB's are highly successful, can see the field, and know to protect the ball at all costs early in their careers, but you want us to wait until he is a 4th year player? He has incredible talent, but at some point you have to ask yourself, "What is more important, losing with a hyper talented, entertaining QB that throws crazy interceptions, or to win with a less talented QB that takes care of the ball?"

Name the 2nd year QB’s in college football meeting these requirements.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Name the 2nd year QB’s in college football meeting these requirements.

Bryce Young and the QB for Wake Forest and I am sure there are more. While I agree with you that we need to be patient, there ARE some sophomore QBs out there doing well.

 

[Root4GT]

Bryce Young and the QB for Wake Forest and I am sure there are more. While I agree with you that we need to be patient, there ARE some sophomore QBs out there doing well.

Wake’s QB Hartman is in his 4th year at Wake. He played in games all 4 years and is a second year starter. Gives Sims into his 4th year and see how he does. By your standards Sims is a freshman.

 

[WreckinGT]

Name the 2nd year QB’s in college football meeting these requirements.

CJ Stroud, Bryce Young, and Max Johnson seem to be doing ok. Caleb Williams, a true freshman at Oklahoma seems to be doing ok since he took over for Rattler as well.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Bryce Young and the QB for Wake Forest and I am sure there are more. While I agree with you that we need to be patient, there ARE some sophomore QBs out there doing well.

Sure there are, but they’re much more rare than the norm. Even naming 5 would still be talking about outliers, but I doubt many could come up with 5. Bryce Young plays for Alabama, so that’s a Top25 team and the WF QB is a 2X RSSoph, so in his 4th year, definitely an upperclassman. In this comparison you’re talking about a RSSoph and a Freshman. Neither of your examples answer my question.

Expecting Sims to have the presence and experience of an upperclassman isn’t fair to him or the coaches. In the coaches’ mind (and mine) Sims gives us the best chance to win, both now and in the future, even with his deficiencies.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I ran out of time with my edit, so here is more information.

So far your two examples don’t meet the criteria I set.

Bryce Young plays for Alabama, so that’s a Top25 team. He was also the #1 QB in his class and the #2 overall recruit that year. How would Sims perform behind that OL?

The WF QB is a 2X RSSoph, so in his 4th year, definitely an upperclassman. In this comparison you’re talking about a RSSoph and a Freshman. .

 

[lv20gt]

I'm going to repost this since it leads into the comparisons.

"since returning against UNC (counting it as half a game) Sims is averaging 305 yards per game passing on 9.28 yards per attempt on ~63.5%, 9 TDs to 5 INTs, with 82 yards rushing on 6.8 ypc, 4 TDs."

Here are the stats of the comparisons brought up.

Stroud - 327.5 ypg on 67.6% 10.62 ypa 22 TDs to 3 INT with 3 rypg 1.1 ypc 0 TDs in 6 games
Young - 306.6 ypg on 70% 9.18 ypa, 26 TDs to3 INTs with 5 ypg rushing on 1.1 ypc 2 TDs in 8 games
Johnson - 251 ypg on 61.4% 7.61 ypa 20 TDs to 5 INTs with negative yards rushing 0 TDs in 8 games
Hartman - 296 ypg on 65% 9.73 ypa, 19 TDs to 3 INTs, about 21 ypg rushing on 3.3 ypc 4 TDs. in 7 games.

Numbers wise his ypg, completion% ypa, and passing TDs (accounting for games played) are very similar to that group. His INTs are a big negative outlier and his rushing game is a big positive outlier. But he's almost certainly more likely to improve his turnovers than they are to improve their running ability. And then again, we're comparing him to top 2 QBs at Alabama and OSU, a 4th year QB, and the one QB who is in somewhat similar situation (still at LSU) has a significantly lower ypa with negative rushing yards. If we just took away more of the dangerous throws we could lower the INT rate, but we'd move the ball less and have no chance to win so we don't.

And I know "but but but garbage time" and "but if you only look at the times he plays bad he isn't playing well". Save us all the time it takes to read that garbage.

Oh, and here is another comparison.

Sam Howell - 264 ypg on 61% 8.77 ypa, 18 TDs to 6 INTs 70 ypg rushing on 5.1 ypc 5 TDs with at least 3 fumbles

So compared to Howell, since returning from injury Sims is throwing for more with a higher completion percentage with more yards per attempt more TDs (when adjusted for games played) while also rushing for more, scoring more TDS rushing, and in total is turning the ball over about the same. I bring him up because when people made this argument before he was one of the go to examples.

 

[Pointer]

.....

The WF QB is a 2X RSSoph, so in his 4th year, definitely an upperclassman. In this comparison you’re talking about a RSSoph and a Freshman. .

But this never applies to our guys for you. You always talk about scrimmage COVID year and how our guys are really still freshmen/underclassmen.

I gonna hold you to this quote from here on.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Dude, I never said that. The whole program is doing poorly. That, I absolutely blame on the coaches. It’s their program. They choose who plays. That they keep running certain guys out there shows us all they are fairly poor decision makers. Of course, I think they’ve been making poor decisions since they opted for Lucas Johnson over Graham in game 1.

And yes, Sims should be much further along in his development than he is. If we are going to be a sophisticated passing offense then you gotta teach your QB. They aren’t. I feel bad for Sims.

I don't think it was a mistake to try Lucas over Graham. Lucas was and is a better QB, as evidenced by the fact he is still playing and Graham can't catch on anywhere. Lucas just never could stay healthy with us.

I think we are going far afield of the UVA postgame here, but suffice it to say I don't trust your talent evaluation more than the coaches, nor your evaluation of the quality of coaching. No offense!

 

[randerto]

Dude, I never said that. The whole program is doing poorly. That, I absolutely blame on the coaches. It’s their program. They choose who plays. That they keep running certain guys out there shows us all they are fairly poor decision makers. Of course, I think they’ve been making poor decisions since they opted for Lucas Johnson over Graham in game 1.

And yes, Sims should be much further along in his development than he is. If we are going to be a sophisticated passing offense then you gotta teach your QB. They aren’t. I feel bad for Sims.

Sims clear positive development over his first 15 games should point to a combination of experience AND good coaching. However, I'm not sure we can say the same about many of more experienced DB's (e.g. #3). Coaching appears to be failing entirely on defense - you don't give up 636 yards to a mediocre ACC UVA team without some players giving up on some plays...

 

[TampaBuzz]

Name the 2nd year QB’s in college football meeting these requirements.

Here is a link to the Top 50 QB's in the country based on QB rating. Fifteen (15) of them are Sophomores including the guy at Coastal Carolina. You will notice that our QB (a 3-year starter) in not on this list. I recognize that QB rating is a debatable metric.

 

[TampaBuzz]

Here is a link to the Top 50 QB's in the country based on QB rating. Fifteen (15) of them are Sophomores including the guy at Coastal Carolina. You will notice that our QB (a 3-year starter) in not on this list. I recognize that QB rating is a debatable metric.

Name the 2nd year QB’s in college football meeting these requirements.

Forgot the Link: https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/8

 

[TampaBuzz]

Forgot the Link: https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/8

Weird....the GT quarterbacks are not anywhere in that listing of 109 QBs. I may be totally off base using that as a source!

 

[slugboy]

Weird....the GT quarterbacks are not anywhere in that listing of 109 QBs. I may be totally off base using that as a source!

Here are the ESPN ACC rankings (Sims is in the middle at #9)

RK	NAME	PAA	PLAYS	EPA	PASS	RUN	SACK	PEN	RAW
1​	Kenny Pickett PITT	59.4	325	59.3	51.2	10.9	-7.1	4.3	87
2​	Sam Hartman WAKE	52.3	287	55.6	54	5.1	-4.6	1	86.9
3​	Brennan Armstrong UVA	51.3	473	58.5	62.4	5.6	-14.2	4.7	75.5
4​	Malik Cunningham LOU	37.3	315	44	26.7	20.7	-4.9	1.6	77.4
5​	Devin Leary NCST	23	302	30.6	36.9	-0.9	-7.8	2.8	68.8
6​	Sam Howell UNC	30.9	327	36	23.5	26.1	-14.7	1.1	72.8
7​	Garrett ShraderSYR	15.3	279	26	13.7	17.9	-5.6	0.1	63.9
8​	Tyler Van Dyke MIA	12	169	17.6	15.3	5.9	-6.7	2.9	67.7
9​	Jeff Sims GT	8.5	180	13.1	5.9	9.2	-3.1	1	62
10​	Jordan Travis FSU	4.7	161	11.5	14.3	4.1	-6.7	-0.4	57.5
11​	Dennis Grosel BC	0.5	242	10.2	10.9	6.1	-8.7	1.8	50.5
12​	Gunnar Holmberg DUKE	14.3	301	22.7	31.6	-2.4	-6.7	0.3	62.1
13​	D'Eriq King MIA	-5.9	177	2.1	10.6	-3	-6.4	0.9	41.4
14​	Braxton Burmeister VT	-2.8	275	8.8	8.5	8.3	-10.3	2.2	47.3
15​	D.J. Uiagalelei CLEM	-24.2	295	-9.3	-0.7	-1.1	-8.6	1.1	29.9