USF Postgame #USFvsGT

[Augusta_Jacket]

You don't know that. LJ didn't have any P5 offers maybe, but JG and TO did. They were both listed as Athletes, so you don't know what position they were recruited for, and neither do I. I agree, TO is much better suited to running than passing. But I've seen some nice passes from him at the P5 level, so I know he has the skills. It's about him putting it all together. He's still a sophomore, so there's time. With JG, no one knows because no one has really seen him play.

JG came here BECAUSE we were willing to let him play QB. We need to take a minute and be honest. As big a CPJ fan as I was, we didn't win very many recruiting battles when offering QBs sought after by other schools as QBs. We beat out a few others for both Vad Lee and Jaylend Ratliffe. Almost every other QB was being recruited by other P5 schools as a pure athlete. Bama told JeT he'd get a shot at QB and JeT flipped to us once he realized Saban wasn't really being honest about that.

Also, there's a big difference between the ability to throw a few nice passes and being able to break down defenses and go through your progressions while staying in the pocket and then hitting your target. Our guys aren't there and likely won't be in the near future. That's not an indictment on their talent level, just an admission that their skill set is different than the way we would optimally like to use them. CGC and CDP recognize this and have gameplanned around it.

As for our current crop of QBs, if it were me, I'd permanently move TO to the slot and let LJ and JG split the reps at QB. JG probably has the best chance to make the necessary jump in this O, but don't sleep on Yates, who will probably be the starter in a year or two.

 

[jgtengineer]

Interestingly....and tellingly, it started in this thread when I defended this year's QBs and their ability to throw the ball downfield vs years past after someone had remarked that passing was better last year or 2.

Predictably, this angered the Cult, which is more interested in defending the past than in supporting the present. It's been a constant theme since Coach Collins was hired. The poster who made the comment didn't seem to mind discussion but boy, did that trigger the ol' Cult! Again, I have no problems nor shame in defending the current team vs those who'd throw shade on them and the staff. It's laughable and sad that the Cult still supports the old regime over the new.

Silver linings, I suppose: Got some new Cult members on the Ignore list!

Screw the coward may not see this but this needs to be said.

I was talking about downfield passing as in throws over 20 yards. Posted the advanced splits for nfl teams doing this to show that the old scheme wasn't really that far off of pro style schemes in interception generation rate, to rebutt his attack on Marshall a former player that played his butt off out of position because of injuries. But don't let facts get in the way of his feelings.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I have no problems nor shame in defending the current team

I have no problems nor shame in defending the current team either. Difference is I have no problem or shame in choosing NOT to crap on our former athletes and coaches either.

These options aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Technut1990]

The bottom line is that these kids love football and know football. They aren't devoid of talent. My issue with some of the fans is that it seems we are allowing or applying (as if we have say) these illegitimate excuses. It doesnt matter how many stars these guys have or who recruited them, this are levels of evaluation. I bet your rear end all of them have the general concept of forward passes and given that they can be instructed or become familiar with reading coverage. Every instruction format that I have ever been subject to or used was based on 3 principals : Explain, Demonstrate and Perform. If the concepts of pass protection and reading defenses has been explained to these kids and they have been shown how it looks in practice (several times) it's time to throw them in the fire so they can perform. Yes there will be sacks, interceptions and blow out losses but they will be learning the system.

If I could wave a wand each QB would start and get multiple games AS THE ONLY GUY. The biggest thing hurting them, IMHO is repetitions, they have to play and play consistently to be evaluated and to learn, even if they play at a 2 star level. Once that happens then pick one.

 

[gt02]

These are high level athletes. They should be able to run this offense with minimal problems. It's a whole different story for the OL. They are adjusting to an entirely new technique. But, they're all football players who have been playing for a long time (and not always in this system). They should be able to adjust.

I don’t buy this. Prior regime converted a TE to an OL and used a walk on center. And this was under the guidance of Sewak, who everyone seems to think was terrible. Yet here we have supposedly the best OL coach in the business and he can’t work with OL enough to get us time to throw against the likes of USF????

 

[RickStromFan]

I have no problems nor shame in defending the current team either. Difference is I have no problem or shame in choosing NOT to crap on our former athletes and coaches either.

These options aren't mutually exclusive.

check your PM. No need to trigger anyone else.

 

[takethepoints]

I'm late to this thread (Thank God).

All our QBs were stars in shotgun spreads in high school, Some interesting stats from their senior years:

Lucas Johnson - 1166 rushing, 2571 passing, 40 TDs

James Graham - 956 rushing, 1725 passing, 39 TDs (in, btw, 8 games)

Tobias Oliver - 1460 rushing, 1604 passing, 31 TDs (his battles with Jake Fromm are a local legend; Tobias went 1 - 2)

So … it isn't a matter of not knowing what to do when they drop back. It's a matter of getting used to a new O system. All of them have the talent to do well at the position; Patenaude is right, they are all real dual-threat QBs. What the coaches haven't done is figure out how to use them most effectively. It's a mutual learning curve. Coach and co. are used to taller drop back types who can run if they have to, not guys who can do either one and might prefer to run. I don't doubt that we'll continue to see some growing pains here and, if they continue, then Yates will get his chance. I think it'll be another three games or so before we'll actually be in a position to get a read on how the O is doing. My guess = the coaches are in the same boat.

 

[Animal02]

I'm late to this thread (Thank God).

All our QBs were stars in shotgun spreads in high school, Some interesting stats from their senior years:

Lucas Johnson - 1166 rushing, 2571 passing, 40 TDs

James Graham - 956 rushing, 1725 passing, 39 TDs (in, btw, 8 games)

Tobias Oliver - 1460 rushing, 1604 passing, 31 TDs (his battles with Jake Fromm are a local legend; Tobias went 1 - 2)

So … it isn't a matter of not knowing what to do when they drop back. It's a matter of getting used to a new O system. All of them have the talent to do well at the position; Patenaude is right, they are all real dual-threat QBs. What the coaches haven't done is figure out how to use them most effectively. It's a mutual learning curve. Coach and co. are used to taller drop back types who can run if they have to, not guys who can do either one and might prefer to run. I don't doubt that we'll continue to see some growing pains here and, if they continue, then Yates will get his chance. I think it'll be another three games or so before we'll actually be in a position to get a read on how the O is doing. My guess = the coaches are in the same boat.

Except the coaches are getting paid boatloads of money.

 

[herb]

I saw a lot of things to be optimistic about, I just have one request. Can we please, please not run out of shotgun on one yard to go plays until we are better at it. I know plenty of others do it with success, but they are not new to it like we are. And I know we ran once under center and didn’t get it then either, but it seemed we had difficulty holding the blocks long enough for the play to develop and I am sure it may work in time when we aren’t missing numerous linemen and the qb, whoever it is, is more experienced, but it just doesn’t seem to work right now.

 

[takethepoints]

I saw a lot of things to be optimistic about, I just have one request. Can we please, please not run out of shotgun on one yard to go plays until we are better at it. I know plenty of others do it with success, but they are not new to it like we are. And I know we ran once under center and didn’t get it then either, but it seemed we had difficulty holding the blocks long enough for the play to develop and I am sure it may work in time when we aren’t missing numerous linemen and the qb, whoever it is, is more experienced, but it just doesn’t seem to work right now.

It usually doesn't.

On short yards you go with quick hitters. Same on the goal line. I remember a story from Bill Curry. Coach Dodd was giving him coaching lessons on Monday about each game. After his second game, the following ensued:

Dodd: "What did I tell you you should do when the team got to the 5 yard line?"

Curry: "You said we should run the ball."

Dodd: "And what did you do?"

Curry: "I called a pass."

Dodd: "And what happened?"

Curry: "Well, we didn't complete it."

Dodd: "And then what happened?"

Curry: "We didn't score."

Dodd: "So. Who was right?"

Curry: "(Deep sigh) You were, coach."

Yep. If you are on the 5, forget passing the ball. If it's third and 1, forget passing the ball. The other side will get the tendency, but so what? Their problem is stopping it. The remarkable thing is how hard it is to get coaches to quit overthinking short yardage situations.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

So … it isn't a matter of not knowing what to do when they drop back. It's a matter of getting used to a new O system against P5 defenses at P5 speeds in a minimal amount of time.

FIFY

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Except the coaches are getting paid boatloads of money.

I can shell out all the money in the world and no amount of engineers, architects and contractors can build a 100 story skyscraper in a month.

There's a reason why an AD as smart as TStan gave CGC a 7 year contract. You need to ground your expectations in reality.

 

[Animal02]

I can shell out all the money in the world and no amount of engineers, architects and contractors can build a 100 story skyscraper in a month.

There's a reason why an AD as smart as TStan gave CGC a 7 year contract. You need to ground your expectations in reality.

I still don't view the 7 year contract as a smart thing.....especially since the average college football coach job is 5 years. IMO, there was no up side to such a lengthy contract to someone with little head coaching experience and who had self described this has his "dream job"

I also do not accept the viewpoint that it is acceptable to throw away seasons for a program wins 6+ games a year. I think it is a disservice to the fans as well as the players on the team.

 

[lv20gt]

I don’t buy this. Prior regime converted a TE to an OL and used a walk on center. And this was under the guidance of Sewak, who everyone seems to think was terrible. Yet here we have supposedly the best OL coach in the business and he can’t work with OL enough to get us time to throw against the likes of USF????

Yes. That should tell you what you need to know about the OL left behind and it's fit for any offense that isn't the triple option.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I still don't view the 7 year contract as a smart thing.....especially since the average college football coach job is 5 years. IMO, there was no up side to such a lengthy contract to someone with little head coaching experience and who had self described this has his "dream job"

I also do not accept the viewpoint that it is acceptable to throw away seasons for a program wins 6+ games a year. I think it is a disservice to the fans as well as the players on the team.

That's your prerogative. He's not the only coach this season that got 7 years, but he does have the biggest rebuild.

 

[jgtengineer]

Besides the namesake in his name threw 13 interceptions on 330 attempts for a rate of 1 in 25 which is worse than Marshalls 1 in 27. Only counting his 2 years as a starter anyway. if I counted his freshmen and sophmore years Strom was 1 in 22 attempts was an INT.

 

[iceeater1969]

Attempts ?


At end of 17 of the last 9 completions , 5 were to us and 4 were to them. Completion percentage was high at start of season and at end was very low bringing a eragecto mid 40%

Great warrior.

 

[jgtengineer]

Attempts ?


At end of 17 of the last 9 completions , 5 were to us and 4 were to them. Completion percentage was high at start of season and at end was very low bringing a eragecto mid 40%

Great warrior.

Attempts was the metric the NFL used for advanced stats on downfield passing. That's why I used it.

 

[forensicbuzz]

JG came here BECAUSE we were willing to let him play QB. We need to take a minute and be honest. As big a CPJ fan as I was, we didn't win very many recruiting battles when offering QBs sought after by other schools as QBs. We beat out a few others for both Vad Lee and Jaylend Ratliffe. Almost every other QB was being recruited by other P5 schools as a pure athlete. Bama told JeT he'd get a shot at QB and JeT flipped to us once he realized Saban wasn't really being honest about that.

Also, there's a big difference between the ability to throw a few nice passes and being able to break down defenses and go through your progressions while staying in the pocket and then hitting your target. Our guys aren't there and likely won't be in the near future. That's not an indictment on their talent level, just an admission that their skill set is different than the way we would optimally like to use them. CGC and CDP recognize this and have gameplanned around it.

As for our current crop of QBs, if it were me, I'd permanently move TO to the slot and let LJ and JG split the reps at QB. JG probably has the best chance to make the necessary jump in this O, but don't sleep on Yates, who will probably be the starter in a year or two.

I don't have an issue with anything you said.

BUT...they all three have the ability. That's my point. They're superb athletes. They need to do what it takes to get to where they need to be. I personally love TO as a running threat. He needs to throw the ball consistently well to do that as a QB. There's no reason he shouldn't be able to do that. I have no opinion on JG yet. As for LJ...I've been a huge fan and pulling for him for 3 years. I have no idea if the game is just too fast for him or if his injuries have slowed him down too much. I just want him to be better than I've seen. At one time, he could have, not sure about now.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Oliver did not have P5 offers (He should have, obviously, but his only other offers were Army, Mercer and Troy). Lucas' next best offer was Air Force. We may not know with 100 percent certainty that Graham wasn't going to get a shot at QB at some other school. We do know he committed to Virginia Tech thinking he would play Wide Receiver, and the opportunity to play QB was a huge factor in his decision to come to GT.

that we no of. You didn't know about that secret offers from tOSU, USCw, ND, and Washington State!