UNC

awbuzz

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Wonder what Vegas had the odds set regarding if Football or Basketball will lose any scholarships.
If they only put them on probation there's no doubt in anybody's mind or at least there shouldn't be any doubt that the NCAA is a joke.
 

collegeballfan

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UNC is a member of the AAU, (The Association of American Universities (AAU) is an association of 62 leading public and private research universities in the United States and Canada) and has been since 1922. Will the AAU drop them as a result of the loss of accreditation ?

FYI - GT has been a member since 2010.

If not, we have a major academic scandal on our hands, IMHO.

Here is the website: http://www.aau.edu/about/default.aspx?id=58
 

Buzz776g

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Keep in mind this is a punishment, more or less -- academics say it is serious -- of probation from the accrediting agency, not the NCAA. It won't look good to prospective students, who kind of want to make sure that degree they earn is going to be academically recognized. I can say with some assurance there are teachers and staff members who work really hard to get through the accrediting process regularly, and it can be nerve wracking, and they are some kind of peeved at the university and the respective athletic programs. The NCAA still has to mete out what it considers punishment, and that may be a year as UNC has not responded to the five allegations. Athletics being what they are, this is considered on that side as the more damning. Apparently being on probation academically means little to them.
This above.

I work for a college and have worked on reaccreditation committees. Losing SACS accreditation for even a year is a great big hairy deal. Usually it is one college or school within a large university that this happens to, not the entire school. This is a very serious big deal, completely separately from whatever the NCAA does (or doesn't) do regarding the athletic programs.
 

kg01

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This above.

I work for a college and have worked on reaccreditation committees. Losing SACS accreditation for even a year is a great big hairy deal. Usually it is one college or school within a large university that this happens to, not the entire school. This is a very serious big deal, completely separately from whatever the NCAA does (or doesn't) do regarding the athletic programs.

What are the ramifications though? From the outside looking in, it feels like a wrist-slap. Please tell me I'm wrong.
 

Skeptic

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What are the ramifications though? From the outside looking in, it feels like a wrist-slap. Please tell me I'm wrong.
The ramifications can be catastrophic, although the chance of that happening is remote. But if they jump the traces again in the next year, every school in the university, as Buzz776g said, can lose accredidation. Meaning on the one hand that English degree is now on sale for half price because it was not obtained at an accredited university, meaning in theory that Uncle Bozo could have earned that degree. But in immediately tangible terms, all federal funding and grants are gone, presto, and federally-backed student loans are kaput. Kind of imagine GT with all its federal grant funding for research and development gone. Counter-intuitively, this is probably the best hope for those who want that athletic department cleaned up, and if it means losing NC banners, and being banned post-season in '16 for what is supposed to be an outstanding bkb team, so be it. I know one graduate so furious he wants his alma mater to get the death penalty. But Buzz can give you a more thorough and better response.
 

forensicbuzz

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Georgia Tech had to vacate its ACC Championship and lost scholarships because the the roommate of a cousin of a Tech player gave the player some clothes. Given that penalty, where does the NCAA begin when handing out punishment to UNC?

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/editorials/article23538064.html
That's not true.

The "reason" was because our AD told the head football coach about the investigation and then they both told DT and Morgan Burnett after being told not to. We got slapped for "Lack of Cooperation" and "Hindering an Investigation." It was a BS call. They told DRad not to say anything to CPJ or the players, but to hold them out of the UGa game and the ACCCG until they were cleared.

Answer this question, as the AD, how do you get the coach to hold a player out of the two biggest games of the year without telling him why? How do you not play your star WR in the two biggest games of the year without telling him why? GTAA should have sued the NCAA for malfeasance.
 

GTNavyNuke

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That's not true.

The "reason" was because our AD told the head football coach about the investigation and then they both told DT and Morgan Burnett after being told not to. We got slapped for "Lack of Cooperation" and "Hindering an Investigation." It was a BS call. They told DRad not to say anything to CPJ or the players, but to hold them out of the UGa game and the ACCCG until they were cleared.

Answer this question, as the AD, how do you get the coach to hold a player out of the two biggest games of the year without telling him why? How do you not play your star WR in the two biggest games of the year without telling him why? GTAA should have sued the NCAA for malfeasance.

I'll contribute to any GTAA request for a fund to sue the NCAA mofos. We still can since I doubt the window of opportunity has expired. But we won't since the NCAA would just invent other BS to hit us with. They have no morals, scruples or effective oversight. The sooner they are out of the money sports the better.
 

Skeptic

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That's not true.

The "reason" was because our AD told the head football coach about the investigation and then they both told DT and Morgan Burnett after being told not to. We got slapped for "Lack of Cooperation" and "Hindering an Investigation." It was a BS call. They told DRad not to say anything to CPJ or the players, but to hold them out of the UGa game and the ACCCG until they were cleared.

Answer this question, as the AD, how do you get the coach to hold a player out of the two biggest games of the year without telling him why? How do you not play your star WR in the two biggest games of the year without telling him why? GTAA should have sued the NCAA for malfeasance.
Does anybody know, for sure, exactly what happened? Because I have heard several iterations, the most credible -- to me -- being that DRad in fact did tell Johnson against NCAA restrictions, and that Johnson approached Thomas after the Duke game, just boarding the bus to come home. I had not heard about asking the players be held out. However it went down, I agree that it was arrogant and mean-spirited for the NCAA to have an "investigation" and not inform all the school, AD and head ball coach first-hand. I can kind of get not telling the players, though doggoned if I can figure out how they would get to the bottom of it without talking to the players who supposedly done the deed. That group needs some whittling down.
 

Buzz776g

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The ramifications can be catastrophic, although the chance of that happening is remote. But if they jump the traces again in the next year, every school in the university, as Buzz776g said, can lose accredidation. Meaning on the one hand that English degree is now on sale for half price because it was not obtained at an accredited university, meaning in theory that Uncle Bozo could have earned that degree. But in immediately tangible terms, all federal funding and grants are gone, presto, and federally-backed student loans are kaput. Kind of imagine GT with all its federal grant funding for research and development gone. Counter-intuitively, this is probably the best hope for those who want that athletic department cleaned up, and if it means losing NC banners, and being banned post-season in '16 for what is supposed to be an outstanding bkb team, so be it. I know one graduate so furious he wants his alma mater to get the death penalty. But Buzz can give you a more thorough and better response.
Skeptic above has hit all the salient points better than I could. (y) The main thing in many people's minds is that when a school loses accreditation, there is technically no longer any certification from an independent, objective outside agency that the degree is in fact actually what it purports to be. No parent is gonna spend tens of thousands to send their kid somewhere to receive something worth no more than a diploma mill printout diploma off the internet.

In practice, accreditation removals usually hinge on minor things that can be quickly corrected, sometimes no more than some missing paperwork or similar. In those cases "customer" confidence in the quality of the university, and in that school's reobtaining accreditation, are high and it's not really all that big of a deal, although it still is a black eye.

In UNC's case it is significantly more major than that. They will need to show SACS highly detailed plans for correcting the academic problems, completely separately from anything to do with athletics. (Remember that these fake classes were half regular students, too, not just athletes.)

There are regional accrediting bodies that cover the US and they all follow pretty much the same rules. SACS is the one for the South. It is by no means a gimme that they will regain accreditation in a year; it may be extended. This is major, and the accrediting agencies are actually pretty free of bias. They can't readily be influenced politically or bought off.
 
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Buzz776g

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UNC still is accredited, but on a 12-month probation. So if they measure up, they'll never lose the accreditation.
This is true, but the probationary period can be extended.

UNC will have to provide a detailed plan of action, and show, using detailed feedback metrics, how that plan is progressing at specified intervals (6 mos. IIRC). The probationary period can be shortened or lengthened on the basis of results at those checkpoints.

SACS will not just yank full accreditation for an established state flagship school. They will, however, take it very seriously and get down in the weeds as far as establishing to their satisfaction that the problems with academic integrity are being fixed. This doesn't look nice at all to potential employers of UNC grads, especially in the affected programs of study, regardless of the reason (athletic or otherwise) for the transgressions.
 
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