Triple Option

[ilovetheoption]

Undercenter, veer and power blocking schemes, Flex formation. The last game southern employed the diamond on something like 40 percent of plays and ran for 503 yards mostly from the B back position in that formation. Under lundsford, southern seemed to try to force the pass a bit. Which i think was because the AD before this one was very anti-option for some reason. He hired van gorder, then hatcher, then begrudgingly hired monken, then when monken went to army he hired fritz because fritz ran from the gun. And so Lundsford was continuing that.

I'd consider traditional being an undercenter base formation down hill attack as the primary formation. And for georgia southern tradition IS the flex.

Ok. TBH I have not been paying attention to GS, and so didn't know they had gone away from their system.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Ok. TBH I have not been paying attention to GS, and so didn't know they had gone away from their system.

Several rabid GaSo fans I know and work with are really hoping for a hire off the CPJ tree. Several seem to think they can lure Monken away from Army. I've got my doubts on that last one though.

 

[ilovetheoption]

Several rabid GaSo fans I know and work with are really hoping for a hire off the CPJ tree. Several seem to think they can lure Monken away from Army. I've got my doubts on that last one though.

mmmmm, I have a hard time imagining that.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

This has probably been discussed ad nauseum but quite a few teams employed the triple option at one point in the past and moved away from it. How long did it take them to “rebuild”? I’ve been on this board for quite a while and the triple option has been blamed as the root of nearly all of our current woes on offense and defense. I’m not hung up on wins and losses at year three but I am hung up on wanting to see steady progress and I want to get away from this Jekyll and Hyde nonsense. When can we stop blaming the triple option? It’s hard to drive looking in the rear view mirror.

The best example I can think of at the moment is Alabama circa 1980. Alabama was still running the wishbone but had "flexed" it out some and recruited a quarterback who was athletic but could throw the ball named Walter Lewis. Over the course of about three years they gradually moved away from an option offense to a more balanced look but then, that was Bear Bryant and he had a quarterback with the chops to make the transition. It did not hurt that the Tide defense was its usual snarling shark feeding frenzy self to ease the transition. However, it should be noted that Tech under Bill Curry, yes that one, upset the Tide twice during those years so there is that to consider as well.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

mmmmm, I have a hard time imagining that.

Agreed. I asked one what he was smoking since Jeff left GaSo for Army... lol

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

What is helping then? There is nothing unique about this rebuild. Many teams have done it. How long did it take? I’m having trouble finding answers online.

Gee, if Emory Bellard had known his creation was going to create all this fuss, he would have let his son and friends play ball instead of trying out his triple option ideas using them in the backyard.

 

[augustabuzz]

1983 was when Ray Perkins took over for Bear Bryant. They were 8-4 in ‘83, 5-6 in ‘84, 9-2 in ‘85, and 10-3 in ‘86. Not much of a fall off from ‘81 and ‘82 but the fans might not have been happy since they weren’t at late 70s levels. Curry comes in ‘87.

I don't remember Coach Perkins using a wishbone. 1984 'Bama @Tech

 

[GT_05]

I don't remember Coach Perkins using a wishbone. 1984 'Bama @Tech

Right. @Vespidae wrote in an earlier post that they quit running it in 1983. My post to which you responded was communicating how they did after the transition.

 

[jgtengineer]

Agreed. I asked one what he was smoking since Jeff left GaSo for Army... lol

Monken actually didn't want to leave, but Kleinlein the GS AD hated the option and was notoriously cheap so he didn't even attempt to match , then turned around and paid fritz more than army was paying monken. still i don't see him leaving. Georgia southern would have better luck targetign Jasper and giving him a chance to be a head coach.

 

[SteamWhistle]

There’s maybe 2-3 coaches in America who can call enough plays that are perfect playcalls for success enough times in a game to win with subpar talent. I’m not sure if Paul was ever in the category, if not he was close. The problem with bringing in Monken or someone else is you’re not bringing in Paul Johnson, you’re just bringing in a little bit of his scheme. Look at how many programs have hired from Saban coaching tree, sometimes it’s just not the same. Paul was the last of the hard, there will never be another P5 Triple Option coach. We were lucky to have him, but at this point all we can do is look back and realize outside of 2 great seasons and 2 bad seasons he was historically on par with every other coach we have had and pretty much averaged a 7-5 season. Maybe the issues at Tech aren’t based on the head coaches as much as we’d like to think. There’s only been 2-3 in history that sustained elite success.

 

[jgtengineer]

There’s maybe 2-3 coaches in America who can call enough plays that are perfect playcalls for success enough times in a game to win with subpar talent. I’m not sure if Paul was ever in the category, if not he was close. The problem with bringing in Monken or someone else is you’re not bringing in Paul Johnson, you’re just bringing in a little bit of his scheme. Look at how many programs have hired from Saban coaching tree, sometimes it’s just not the same. Paul was the last of the hard, there will never be another P5 Triple Option coach. We were lucky to have him, but at this point all we can do is look back and realize outside of 2 great seasons and 2 bad seasons he was historically on par with every other coach we have had and pretty much averaged a 7-5 season. Maybe the issues at Tech aren’t based on the head coaches as much as we’d like to think. There’s only been 2-3 in history that sustained elite success.

I'd say Paul Johnson was in the category of play call, because of how he altered blocking on the fly with the play call. One of the things we lost when we tried to signal things in in 2015 and go with a little tempo was paul's ability to send a message with the a-back to the line on a particular play which he did do. Monken is more than just an option coach. He's just a good HC too. He understands how to build and run a program, and he was probably a better QB and B backs coach than anyone paul taught to do that job. Bohannon being second on that list. We suffered a noticeable drop off when we lost them. VT games are probably the biggest testament to pauls play calling acumen. Once he got in fosters head. Well you saw what happened. It did take him a few tries to do it though.

The main issue is even if you have the perfect play call eventually you are just out matched. This is the problem i have with Coach P. In isolation none of his plays are badly designed. Its just he doesn't seem to be able to call plays in chain. Paul's system was reactionary, If defense does this, you do this. To set up misdirection and play action. P system is to attack and probe then capitalize, the only game he's ever called where we did that was UNC. even the blow out that was duke last year was more on just out horsing them than scheme.

Lane Kiffen is another coach that can beat people with scheme. Man schemes touchdowns probably close to the best in the game.

 

[Yoda]

I do know we have, mostly always, had to out scheme the big boys on our schedule. Ralph was the king of it. PJ was right there with him IMHO. Id take a young Ralph or PJ right now in a heart beat. Give me someone that can scheme with some exotic X's and O's over someone that will try to run what everyone else runs with equal to or lesser talent.

 

[jgtengineer]

I do know we have, mostly always, had to out scheme the big boys on our schedule. Ralph was the king of it. PJ was right there with him IMHO. Id take a young Ralph or PJ right now in a heart beat. Give me someone that can scheme with some exotic X's and O's over someone that will try to run what everyone else runs with equal to or lesser talent.

See the biggest mistake we made was tryign to go straight to an RPO. We had a run and shoot passing system, we could have easily gone to that with a single back run game based off power and masked some of our Oline problems while we found our QB and our footing. Ran a version of the fridges options and play it up about how we did that under o'leary and ross. Tradition etc collins could have spun it he's good at doing that.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

There’s only been 2-3 in history that sustained elite success.

This is what GT fans don't really care to think about. No coach since Dodd has sustained elite success at GT. Maybe Ross could have if he stayed. We will never know. GOL had one great and a couple of good years then left. Maybe he could have eventually gotten a NC had he stayed at GT, but I'm not sold on that. CPJ had more highs than any coach since Dodd, though not a single high like Ross did, but never could sustain excellence either. The simple fact is that GT, even under Dodd, hasn't really sustained excellence since the mid-50's. Under O'Leary we had a 5 year run of top 25 seasons, but only one of those seasons was truly elite. At some point we need to dig beyond coaches and schemes and figure out why we can't seem to get over the hump.

 

[cthenrys]

There’s maybe 2-3 coaches in America who can call enough plays that are perfect playcalls for success enough times in a game to win with subpar talent. I’m not sure if Paul was ever in the category, if not he was close. The problem with bringing in Monken or someone else is you’re not bringing in Paul Johnson, you’re just bringing in a little bit of his scheme. Look at how many programs have hired from Saban coaching tree, sometimes it’s just not the same. Paul was the last of the hard, there will never be another P5 Triple Option coach. We were lucky to have him, but at this point all we can do is look back and realize outside of 2 great seasons and 2 bad seasons he was historically on par with every other coach we have had and pretty much averaged a 7-5 season. Maybe the issues at Tech aren’t based on the head coaches as much as we’d like to think. There’s only been 2-3 in history that sustained elite success.

Likely not wrong, but it would be an upgrade over what we are experiencing now. Maybe in a years time we look different (I have my doubts) but for today we are not far beyond when he started.

 

[Buzztheirazz]

Quality or Dominant OL and DL are usually Juniors and Seniors. Seeing as CGC and crew have only put in a couple seasons of recruiting and gotten a few transfers my guess is another couple years before we can see if his guys are good enough. We’ll see if the “fire Geoff Collins” can wait that long.

Heard good things about Vaipulu but he made a couple costly mistakes this past week. Why? It’s his first start ever. Going to happen when you’re green.

Also heard Westin Franklin has a lot of potential but again we will have to wait and see how he reacts when the real bullets are firing.

I’m not judging too harshly until Collins gets his guys in here AND they are older. Just reality of the nature of college ball. Older teams are going to have more experience and make less mistakes than young teams. We are a VERY young team.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I’m not judging too harshly until Collins gets his guys in here AND they are older. Just reality of the nature of college ball. Older teams are going to have more experience and make less mistakes than young teams. We are a VERY young team.

As proof of point, the Pitt pick 6 was by a player in his 7th year...

Was at Penn State for 4 years then transferred to Pitt in 2019 as a Grad Transfer.

John Petrishen - Football - Pitt Panthers #H2P

John Petrishen (0) LB - 2021: Played in all 14 games, starting six at Star linebacker…team’s third-leading tackler with 74 stops and added 7.5 TFLs and 4.5 sacks…tied

pittsburghpanthers.com

 

[Northeast Stinger]

FWIW, I’ve always enjoyed reading your posts.

Here’s an interesting article that you may appreciate:

No one wants the triple option. No one can explain why.

Even Kansas, and they’re Kansas.

www.google.com

As I’ve said before, with some people it’s as if the triple option hurts their eyes. And that is far more important to them than winning.

 

[stech81]

I do know we have, mostly always, had to out scheme the big boys on our schedule. Ralph was the king of it. PJ was right there with him IMHO. Id take a young Ralph or PJ right now in a heart beat. Give me someone that can scheme with some exotic X's and O's over someone that will try to run what everyone else runs with equal to or lesser talent.

The problem after a few years of seeing your scheme they learn to scheme against you. Hence why when CPJ was here teams would practice against his scheme every week.

 

[GT_05]

As I’ve said before, with some people it’s as if the triple option hurts their eyes. And that is far more important to them than winning.

No matter how good the scheme, you have to have players willing and able to execute. From reading this board, it appears recruits felt like TO skills wouldn’t take them to the next level. A lot of folks think the TO is boring but I think it’s a thing of beauty when it’s working. I know it’s gone and it’s probably never coming back but I do miss those death marches.