Thoughts on the Portal

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
Messages
9,028
Location
North Shore, Chicago
I think we all are. Honestly, right now it’s ALL allowed... until it’s not. If some parameters aren’t enforced, there isnt much of a barrier in sight.

Sure the school still has scholarship limits, but if a partner program wants to pay tuition, room and board as part of an NIL deal, is that a school sponsored scholarship?
Quote from the BYU head football coach: "I love these boys, and I am overwhelmed with gratitude to be partnering with a company that is equally committed to assisting BYU football in building a culture of love and learning while enhancing the experience for all players." That sounds like either the coach or the program is involved with the company.
 

Sheboygan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,121
Location
Oostburg Wis. ( It's DUTCH !)
This is EXACTLY where it's headed...
IMO, the portal and the NIL together have completely removed the idea that college and professional sports are somehow different. CFB players are free to transfer their services to the highest bidder, just like any talented employee in the business world. However, the NFL is even LESS of a S--TSHOW because at least they have contracts with players insuring some relative stability.
 

JacketFan137

Banned
Messages
2,536
IMO, the portal and the NIL together have completely removed the idea that college and professional sports are somehow different. CFB players are free to transfer their services to the highest bidder, just like any talented employee in the business world. However, the NFL is even LESS of a S--TSHOW because at least they have contracts with players insuring some relative stability.
the nfl also has a strict salary cap so it’s not like you can really buy a championship when you have the same spending regulations as everyone else. ncaa football is basically who’s got the best bag men and that’s been the case for a long time
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,033
When will we see the first law suit for violating a NIL contract? Some kid's family will go after deep pockets if they feel slighted or conditions were violated. It's all about the Benjamins.
 

Sheboygan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,121
Location
Oostburg Wis. ( It's DUTCH !)
When will we see the first law suit for violating a NIL contract? Some kid's family will go after deep pockets if they feel slighted or conditions were violated. It's all about the Benjamins.
Watching Packer and Durham this morning. Narduzzi at Pitt called out ND specifically for tampering with Pickett before the start of last season. We have all have thought the NCAA was an absolute joke for a while. Gentlemen and Ladies they have probably ruined the sport we love with their recent incompetence.
 

JacketFan137

Banned
Messages
2,536
Watching Packer and Durham this morning. Narduzzi at Pitt called out ND specifically for tampering with Pickett before the start of last season. We have all have thought the NCAA was an absolute joke for a while. Gentlemen and Ladies they have probably ruined the sport we love with their recent incompetence.
look at long’s first press conference. he said the first thing he went to do was meet with sims and his family because “if you’re not recruiting your own players, someone else is”.

of course this isn’t gonna be addressed at all when it’s a cash cow teambut i guarantee if we sniffed around kennesaw state we’d get sanctioned somehow to make an example out of us lol
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,033
Familiar with a little bit of this from knowing a former WBB coach. She said the top players are usually texted by other coaches that had formerly recruited them. They just ask how they are; are they having a good season; how is school going; etc? Not really directly poaching but keeping in touch just in case. Guess it is not a violation.
 

JacketFan137

Banned
Messages
2,536
Familiar with a little bit of this from knowing a former WBB coach. She said the top players are usually texted by other coaches that had formerly recruited them. They just ask how they are; are they having a good season; how is school going; etc? Not really directly poaching but keeping in touch just in case. Guess it is not a violation.
“don’t worry sweetheart my ex just texts me every now and then. i still love you she’s just really sweet and likes to check in”

going forward i think it’s gonna be important to not burn bridges with any recruits. im sure one of the first places people will wanna look is the places they already had a relationship with the coach recruiting wise
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
11,127
Familiar with a little bit of this from knowing a former WBB coach. She said the top players are usually texted by other coaches that had formerly recruited them. They just ask how they are; are they having a good season; how is school going; etc? Not really directly poaching but keeping in touch just in case. Guess it is not a violation.
There are other professions where this would be considered a serious ethical violation -doctors, lawyers, psychiatrists, ministers don’t check in with former clients or constituents. Rules have always been loosey-goosey with coaches and recruits.
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,121
Location
Augusta, Georgia
There are other professions where this would be considered a serious ethical violation -doctors, lawyers, psychiatrists, ministers don’t check in with former clients or constituents. Rules have always been loosey-goosey with coaches and recruits.

Good ministers often check in with their former members. Not entirely sure it's unethical for a doctor to check in with a former patient either. Given other considerations, the lawyer/psychiatrist might have reasons they need to abstain, but not every contact is unethical.

In the end, people can be friends, even in situations like this. As long as nothing that would involve tampering is occurring, all conversations held are seemingly permissable and ethical in nature.

To your unsaid point, intent is probably borderline unethical with coaches "checking in," but near impossible to prove.
 

sgreer

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
404
When will we see the first law suit for violating a NIL contract? Some kid's family will go after deep pockets if they feel slighted or conditions were violated. It's all about the Benjamins.
If that happens it would probably happen to Tech. Stripped of the ACC football title for a few T-shirt’s
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
11,127
Good ministers often check in with their former members. Not entirely sure it's unethical for a doctor to check in with a former patient either. Given other considerations, the lawyer/psychiatrist might have reasons they need to abstain, but not every contact is unethical.

In the end, people can be friends, even in situations like this. As long as nothing that would involve tampering is occurring, all conversations held are seemingly permissable and ethical in nature.

To your unsaid point, intent is probably borderline unethical with coaches "checking in," but near impossible to prove.
I disagree. Most professional guidelines are pretty strict. Even in ministry there are some denominations that spell out terms of interference like visiting former parishes or contacting former church members. These can cause you to lose your ordination credentials and be kicked out of the ministry. In South Georgia these types of ministers were referred to as “jack legs.”

My brothers who are doctors are clear that once a patient has moved on to another doctor your professional relationship is over. Same with my lawyer nephews.

The only loop holes in these professional relationships is if you had a previous personal relationship that does not involve professional advice, if you are working with the current professional in some collaborative connection or if you contact the current professional ahead of time, explain your overture and ask for permission to make contact. Anything beyond that is sleazy.
 

TromboneJacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
877
Location
Seattle, WA
IMO, the portal and the NIL together have completely removed the idea that college and professional sports are somehow different. CFB players are free to transfer their services to the highest bidder, just like any talented employee in the business world. However, the NFL is even LESS of a S--TSHOW because at least they have contracts with players insuring some relative stability.
And at least the NFL determines draft order and upcoming opponents in such a way as to increase parity.

What’s ridiculous to me is people deciding that college football is a college sport when it’s convenient (such as “You can’t tell a kid where to go to school!”) but suddenly it’s a professional job when it’s convenient too (such as “Well they’re making money for the school, so they deserve to be compensated for it like a professional athlete would.”).

Are they student athletes or not? If they are, then it’s not a job, and they need to be treated as students, not paid professionals. If they’re not student athletes but paid professionals, then they can be paid, but it should also be fair game to implement similar policies as any professional sports league, such as contracts, salary caps, drafting, trades, etc.
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,121
Location
Augusta, Georgia
I disagree. Most professional guidelines are pretty strict. Even in ministry there are some denominations that spell out terms of interference like visiting former parishes or contacting former church members. These can cause you to lose your ordination credentials and be kicked out of the ministry. In South Georgia these types of ministers were referred to as “jack legs.”

My brothers who are doctors are clear that once a patient has moved on to another doctor your professional relationship is over. Same with my lawyer nephews.

The only loop holes in these professional relationships is if you had a previous personal relationship that does not involve professional advice, if you are working with the current professional in some collaborative connection or if you contact the current professional ahead of time, explain your overture and ask for permission to make contact. Anything beyond that is sleazy.

Not sure what denominations do that. I can say that none of the protestant denominations do that I am aware of. I have maintained contact with many of my former pastors, and several check in on me routinely. My uncle works as an associational minister in south Georgia for the GBA and they have no such rules.

Also, while a professional relationship might be over, that doesn't sever any personal ties. I am personal friends with my general physician. I dare say that if he moved on to another practice or area, he's still keep in contact with me and that wouldn't be either illegal or unethical. There's also the fact that doctors often encourage second opinions. They know other doctors may well be involved in your care. Former doctors of yours can contact you regardless of your current status as their patient. What they can't do is illegally share your records or data. It would be unethical of them to contact you with the INTENT to damage another Doctors professional reputation or business. The personal tie does not need to be preexisting to the DR/patient relationship for it to be valid. They are absolutely correct on the professional part.

There are some professions where there are stricter guidelines, as I mentioned with lawyer/psychiatrist, but generally speaking, ministers and doctors aren't under the same stringent rules as others.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
11,127
Not sure what denominations do that. I can say that none of the protestant denominations do that I am aware of. I have maintained contact with many of my former pastors, and several check in on me routinely. My uncle works as an associational minister in south Georgia for the GBA and they have no such rules.

Also, while a professional relationship might be over, that doesn't sever any personal ties. I am personal friends with my general physician. I dare say that if he moved on to another practice or area, he's still keep in contact with me and that wouldn't be either illegal or unethical. There's also the fact that doctors often encourage second opinions. They know other doctors may well be involved in your care. Former doctors of yours can contact you regardless of your current status as their patient. What they can't do is illegally share your records or data. It would be unethical of them to contact you with the INTENT to damage another Doctors professional reputation or business. The personal tie does not need to be preexisting to the DR/patient relationship for it to be valid. They are absolutely correct on the professional part.

There are some professions where there are stricter guidelines, as I mentioned with lawyer/psychiatrist, but generally speaking, ministers and doctors aren't under the same stringent rules as others.


The United Methodist Church has this rule specifically in their book of discipline. The Episcopal Church has this as a diocesan rule. I could name others.

I already said personal friendships that preceded professional relationships are an exception. But in all the professions I mentioned you do not check in of your own accord because it can undermine the current professional / client relationship. There are so many examples and illustrations of this it would be tedious to go through but suffice it to say if you have a specific counselor, doctor, minister, lawyer, you don’t need a second one confusing you with second opinions about your current care. Doctors, for instance, will refer you or collaborate with another doctor if you need a second opinion. But they might dismiss you as a patient if you are seeing another doctor on the side without their knowledge or consent.

Some professionals do not act professionally. Their ego starts to come before the care of the client. They want to be beloved, thought of as a good minister or counselor. They can’t see that another professional is perfectly capable of meeting that patient’s needs. They forget that no matter how great they think they are at their job, it is not about them. They confuse their personal feelings with their professional roles. Psychiatrists in particular have to be aware of when these boundaries are crossed. The psychiatrist in the Sopranos was also seeing a psychiatrist to help her with her professional boundaries. That was very true to life from my experience.

So the topic was coaches. A coach whose only relationship was that they once recruited you, not long time family friend or I coached you in Little League, is violating what in most other professions would be considered an ethical violation to keep tabs on this person. And with all a coach has to keep up, and all the hours their job demands, they are kidding themselves if they think this is a purely selfless interest and they are just interested in “how the boy turns out.” Imagine if they kept up with every former recruit and every former player they had ever had as a coach. My quick calculation would be that after five years of coaching their Christmas card list would have as many as 5000 names on it and they would be making hundreds of phone calls a week just to former athletes they no longer have a professional relationship with.

No. They are staying in contact with specific athletes that they want something from, whether it’s an ego stroke or just to keep the door open. Sleazy.
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,121
Location
Augusta, Georgia
The United Methodist Church has this rule specifically in their book of discipline. The Episcopal Church has this as a diocesan rule. I could name others.

IIRC, the rule is they aren't allowed to 'pop in unannounced' to former churches. Contacting former members of their pastorate isn't forbidden. The reason for the rule was not to undermine the authority of a newly appointed pastor. All I can say is that the former pastors of the Methodist church that sponsors my scout troop stay in contact with several members of the church. There is absolutely nothing unethical about that. Unlike other professions, the pastorate is designed to produce close relationships with their church members, so it should almost be expected for former pastors to stay in touch with their former church members.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
11,127
Again, as I said earlier, that goes to INTENT. I agree it's sleazy, but intent is hard to prove.
Agree completely. That’s why lots of professions have what in the past was called “a fence around the law.” Basically you have a rule so that no one has to figure out the gray areas, no one has to think, and no one has to mind read or interpret motives. We don’t have anything like that in college coaching which is too bad and why anything goes.
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,121
Location
Augusta, Georgia
Agree completely. That’s why lots of professions have what in the past was called “a fence around the law.” Basically you have a rule so that no one has to figure out the gray areas, no one has to think, and no one has to mind read or interpret motives. We don’t have anything like that in college coaching which is too bad and why anything goes.

And we likely won't. The NCAA has been neutered by the factories in regards to football, and the factories have no desire to hamper their own livelihoods.
 
Top