Thoughts on the Portal

[Northeast Stinger]

IIRC, the rule is they aren't allowed to 'pop in unannounced' to former churches. Contacting former members of their pastorate isn't forbidden. The reason for the rule was not to undermine the authority of a newly appointed pastor. All I can say is that the former pastors of the Methodist church that sponsors my scout troop stay in contact with several members of the church. There is absolutely nothing unethical about that. Unlike other professions, the pastorate is designed to produce close relationships with their church members, so it should almost be expected for former pastors to stay in touch with their former church members.

I hate to say it but you are wrong. The idea of fostering a close personal relationship is a fairly modern interpretation and not the spirit of the book of discipline. John Wesley, and for a couple of centuries after that, saw this as a professional relationship not a personal one. Professional relationships keep certain boundaries.

If I am a pastor and a former pastor contacts a church member of mine without my consent that is a chargeable offense in several denominations and I can take that minister to trial. Obviously I would have to decide in my own mind whether there was malicious intent or whether it was causing harm to my ability to minister to that person but the rule is pretty clear. To be fair fewer and fewer ministers follow the rules of their own denominations. Frankly one reason churches have been in a 40 year long decline, not the only reason or the main one, is that church life has gotten more centered around personality cults rather than doctrines or polity or even worship style. I don’t want to get off in the weeds about that but just to say that professional rules were important to many denominations in the past and many of those have eroded over time.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I hate to say it but you are wrong. The idea of fostering a close personal relationship is a fairly modern interpretation and not the spirit of the book of discipline. John Wesley, and for a couple of centuries after that, saw this as a professional relationship not a personal one. Professional relationships keep certain boundaries.

If I am a pastor and a former pastor contacts a church member of mine without my consent that is a chargeable offense in several denominations and I can take that minister to trial. Obviously I would have to decide in my own mind whether there was malicious intent or whether it was causing harm to my ability to minister to that person but the rule is pretty clear. To be fair fewer and fewer ministers follow the rules of their own denominations. Frankly one reason churches have been in a 40 year long decline, not the only reason or the main one, is that church life has gotten more centered around personality cults rather than doctrines or polity or even worship style. I don’t want to get off in the weeds about that but just to say that professional rules were important to many denominations in the past and many of those have eroded over time.

We're probably straying far afield of this thread topic, but this likely comes down to the rules we as humans put in place vs what God intended for the church. I can find nowhere in scripture that supports a "professional relationship" vs a personal one. You are absolutely correct on the personality cult though, that is where it is most like modern NCAA football. Coaches build personality cults and call it "culture" and that "culture" is sold to recruits. If they don't get enough out of the current culture, then move to another one.

 

[LongforDodd]

I disagree. Most professional guidelines are pretty strict. Even in ministry there are some denominations that spell out terms of interference like visiting former parishes or contacting former church members. These can cause you to lose your ordination credentials and be kicked out of the ministry. In South Georgia these types of ministers were referred to as “jack legs.”

My brothers who are doctors are clear that once a patient has moved on to another doctor your professional relationship is over. Same with my lawyer nephews.

The only loop holes in these professional relationships is if you had a previous personal relationship that does not involve professional advice, if you are working with the current professional in some collaborative connection or if you contact the current professional ahead of time, explain your overture and ask for permission to make contact. Anything beyond that is sleazy.

So if a minister was helping someone with a personal crisis who is a member of that minister's church and the individual moves on to another church, then the minister is liable to be kicked out of ministering while following up to see how that person is doing with their crisis.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

So if a minister was helping someone with a personal crisis who is a member of that minister's church and the individual moves on to another church, then the minister is liable to be kicked out of ministering while following up to see how that person is doing with their crisis.

By the rules, yes. They are no longer your parishioner. The professional thing to do is contact their current minister. The current minister might say, for instance, “She is doing fine and I’ll be happy to pass on to her that you were inquiring about how she was doing.” Sometimes the minister in charge might say, “She’s doing well but she would be happy to hear from you; here’s her current number.”

But as I indicated in another post, more and more professionals don’t seem to follow the standard rules of etiquette anymore.

 

[LongforDodd]

By the rules, yes. They are no longer your parishioner. The professional thing to do is contact their current minister. The current minister might say, for instance, “She is doing fine and I’ll be happy to pass on to her that you were inquiring about how she was doing.” Sometimes the minister in charge might say, “She’s doing well but she would be happy to hear from you; here’s her current number.”

But as I indicated in another post, more and more professionals don’t seem to follow the standard rules of etiquette anymore.

Thanks for the reply. I think I understand why these rules exist but on a basic level of human interaction and compassion...very weird. And I'm quasi religious.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Thanks for the reply. I think I understand why these rules exist but on a basic level of human interaction and compassion...very weird. And I'm quasi religious.

It's what happens when you run the church like a business.

 

[forensicbuzz]

It's what happens when you run the church like a business.

It's what happens when ministers are insecure or egotistical (or both).

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Thanks for the reply. I think I understand why these rules exist but on a basic level of human interaction and compassion...very weird. And I'm quasi religious.

The rationale is complex. Some people are easily preyed upon by religious charlatans and the rules prevent a grifter from ingratiating themselves. Some people are susceptible to sexual abuse and keeping professional distance prevents grooming. Some people have a pathological need to be important or adored and these rules limit that. Some congregations are fragile or have potentially disruptive members and these rules help prevent triangulation between factions (kind of like fans being on the side of a current or former coach).

And the list goes on but most professions understand that professional distance allows you to be warm, caring and generous in your support without becoming enmeshed or creating co-dependency.

 

[GTBandman]

Most of the New Testament was written by the Apostle Paul to churches he established and left others in charge of.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Most of the New Testament was written by the Apostle Paul to churches he established and left others in charge of.

One of the humorous things found in one of Paul’s letters is that he could not remember who had baptized among one of the churches he established.

 

[ramblingman]

The portal is GT's friend because so many great student-athletes from the Atlanta area realize what Tech and the business opportunities after graduation offer.

 

[cthenrys]

The portal is GT's friend because so many great student-athletes from the Atlanta area realize what Tech and the business opportunities after graduation offer.

lol. The portal will help us with the occasional player like this. It is far far more likely that the money schools will come and poach anyone who shows upper level talent / performance. IIWII, but CFB moving closer to pro football will not be good for us.

 

[TromboneJacket]

lol. The portal will help us with the occasional player like this. It is far far more likely that the money schools will come and poach anyone who shows upper level talent / performance. IIWII, but CFB moving closer to pro football will not be good for us.

It won’t be good for most college football programs. The portal by itself isn’t such a big deal, but when combined with NIL it just turns into a professional sport without a salary cap. I was really surprised at how much support there was for the changes that brought this about. Washington is going to be in for a rude awakening when all their best players leave Seattle to get that Nike money at Oregon. Programs like Michigan State, Utah, UNC, Iowa, etc. are not seeming to realize that they can’t win bidding wars against the Alabama, Ohio State, Georgia, Texas type programs, and the gaps are only going to grow wider.