Thoughts going into UVA week

Sean311

Sean311

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,964
Wrecking Ball said:
Job hopping is a sign of not being good? Say whaaa? Tell that to: Gus Malzahn, James Franklin, Charlie Strong, etc. NCAA football is a volatile industry and you see very few coaches last long anywhere anymore.

As for "overrated" WHEN ELSE HAVE WE EVER HAD SIX CONSECUTIVE SEASONS of top 30 scoring Defenses? Or is that overrated? Yeah, I remember that time we had the number 1 defense in NCAA for 9 straight years... except NOT. If we regularly had elite defenses, that'd be one thing, but we haven't been top 30 on D in decades except for Tenuta's time.
Click to expand...

They were promoted not fired....
 

Mack

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,361
Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau said:
At the end of the game Saturday, we will allow you to rethink your love of Jon Tenuta.
Click to expand...
I expect him to try to stop us wide but still dont think he has the hosses to do it.........speed kills and with JT if he is healthy ,things happen for the good of all fans.....my deal is how to stop VA........yeah know they are not that strong but they do run the rock and again last week even though it was big win we gave up over 500 yds in offense...............
 

33jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,636
Location
Georgia
vamosjackets said:
Compare Gotsis and Green to Parker and freshman Wrotto. No clear winner. DE is where we're much weaker. But, we didn't always have studs at DE with Tenuta either ... Oliver was no game changer - many thought he would be a weak link and wanted Michael Johnson to replace him imediately and so on. Would've reminded a lot of folks of Stargel or Travis measurables wise. Now he was darn good as a senior and had bulked up to 275 and lost no speed, so was a very good player at that point. And Robo wouldn't have been highly preferable to Freeman, he was very undersized
I really like our LB personnel and think they don't matchup too bad with Hall and Wheeler or Reis and Wilkinson or whatever. Davis and Nealy are capable guys who can do good things and get done many things that you would ask them to do in Tenuta's scheme. A lot of the time our guys made plays because they were totally unblocked. I don't care if it's Derrick Morgan or if it's Keshaun Freeman, if he's got a free run to the QB, I expect either one of them to get a big sack or at least rush the QB into an incompletion.

Most of the guys we're revering from Tenuta's scheme did not make it in the NFL - Robo, Oliver, Anoai, Hall, Parker, Wrotto was OL (would never have made it at DL), Richard, Henderson was borderline NFL, Reis was a special teams hustle guy (couldn't have made it as a LB) ... good athletes all of them, but not elite-type guys.

I don't know the answer to Roof yet. I do know that losing 6 out of your top 8 DL is a recipe for struggle for any DC. Should we be better than we've been, would we have been better under a Tenuta ... I tend to think yes, but it's not a hill I'm ready to die on ... too many variables to get the right answer.
Click to expand...

Its funny you are stating what I did in another thread here....alot in this thread as well

yes you are not ready to die on the hill...but you are coming around. Anyone who knows football knows what roof is doing is a joke. Don't be so afraid. Look at the tape

Ted doesn't attack blocking schemes. He sends bodies
He does roll coverages
he has little presnap motion with the LBs, and the S telegraph way too early. All these things are teaching things.

I can tell you his blitzes 10 seconds before they happen...you know who else can?

Tenuta pressured the blocking scheme. He disguised his mixes. Most times he only brought 5. Its night and day in the quality of the teaching
 

33jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,636
Location
Georgia
dressedcheeseside said:
This statement, even if true, comes off as pretty conceited. I'm certainly no expert, never claimed to be, but I've read plenty of opinions, some from former college players and coaches, that disagree with you. I guess they don't know anything about football.
Click to expand...
If you cant handle message board grandstanding and overstating adjust or dont post lol
 
kg01

kg01

Get-Bak! Coach
Featured Member
Messages
14,493
Location
Atlanta
dressedcheeseside said:
This statement, even if true, comes off as pretty conceited. I'm certainly no expert, never claimed to be, but I've read plenty of opinions, some from former college players and coaches, that disagree with you. I guess they don't know anything about football.
Click to expand...

DCS, the results kinda speak for themselves. Our personnel is not as bad as our results indicate. I don't think anyone can disagree with that statement.

(Sorry to butt in on your and 33's fight. Carry on ...)
 

Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau

Banned
Messages
2,077
33jacket said:
Its funny you are stating what I did in another thread here....alot in this thread as well

yes you are not ready to die on the hill...but you are coming around. Anyone who knows football knows what roof is doing is a joke. Don't be so afraid. Look at the tape

Ted doesn't attack blocking schemes. He sends bodies
He does roll coverages
he has little presnap motion with the LBs, and the S telegraph way too early. All these things are teaching things.

I can tell you his blitzes 10 seconds before they happen...you know who else can?

Tenuta pressured the blocking scheme. He disguised his mixes. Most times he only brought 5. Its night and day in the quality of the teaching
Click to expand...
He is saving his weapons for the Georgia game
 
IEEEWreck

IEEEWreck

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
655
kg01 said:
DCS, the results kinda speak for themselves. Our personnel is not as bad as our results indicate. I don't think anyone can disagree with that statement.

(Sorry to butt in on your and 33's fight. Carry on ...)
Click to expand...

That's true, but football defenses are not linear systems (where +1 talent => +1x results).

Think about this- let's say you've bought a Bugatti but, in transit, the wheels get in academic trouble. The only other wheels you have are bald, flat junk yard tires. You've only lost maybe $10k of parts on a 2 million dollar car, so it should drive at 99% of its potential , right? Otherwise, it must be because the driver is a horrible failure, no?
 
AE 87

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,016
IEEEWreck said:
That's true, but football defenses are not linear systems (where +1 talent => +1x results).

Think about this- let's say you've bought a Bugatti but, in transit, the wheels get in academic trouble. The only other wheels you have are bald, flat junk yard tires. You've only lost maybe $10k of parts on a 2 million dollar car, so it should drive at 99% of its potential , right? Otherwise, it must be because the driver is a horrible failure, no?
Click to expand...

I appreciate that this post is probably more an attempt at cleverness than a response to @kg01. However, it's also not clear that you understand the simplicity of the point being made.

Consider last year. Last year, iirc, we lost Holton before the season began, IJ never felt ready, Jamal went-out during game three, and we lost Milton for a few games. IIrc, Jemea had began the season at corner and was moved after four games to safety. So, being down 4 of our original 2deep in the secondary with some players being moved around was one reason for not getting overly upset with spotty secondary play. Still our D was in the 50's or 60's in D-efficiency.

The point is that a team with decent, but not great, talent won't be top 25 when down players but shouldn't be bottom 25 either. That's the only point. We are currently #122 of 128 teams in yards/play D.

The point is that you can't explain being that bad just by looking at personnel. Of course, you're not going to be as good--and the relationship probably isn't linear--but with our talent we should be practically the worst, bottom 10 of all 128 FBS teams.
 
dressedcheeseside

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
14,054
kg01 said:
DCS, the results kinda speak for themselves. Our personnel is not as bad as our results indicate. I don't think anyone can disagree with that statement.

(Sorry to butt in on your and 33's fight. Carry on ...)
Click to expand...
Not by much. Maybe 10 rank spots, but that's about it.
 
Whiskey_Clear

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
Fans very rarely are able to truly gauge coaching performace. The fan simply has too little information regarding what each player is responsible for and expected to do each play. The players and coaches know I'm certain. It's very easy too look at the "rank" of a particular D or O and make blanket statements about how good or bad a coach is. You can certainly gauge how good the unit is...but the ability of the responsible coaches....that is less certain.

For those that wish to disagree.....I present Coach Sewak. Who last year was everyones least favorite idiot coach...and this year presides over the best Oline in the conference IMO. Guess he got stupid over the prior off season and became a genius again prior to this year.

What I do value more is the opinion of Coaches who have worked with other coaches and give their opinion...and players who have played for same coaches. Tenuta always met this fan's unlearned eye with approval. But I value my own opinion over the matter... in watching the Ds he coached...less than a guy like vamos who actually played for him. Vamos confirmed my opinion of Tenuta but if he had come out and said....man that guy was such a football moron etc etc....I'd have weighted that opinion over what I had seen from the unit on game day.

Very few coaches....can't think of any....or former players...can't think of any.....have expressed less than praise for Roof. I'll take those opinions and appraisals accordingly.
 

Mack

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,361
dressedcheeseside said:
This statement, even if true, comes off as pretty conceited. I'm certainly no expert, never claimed to be, but I've read plenty of opinions, some from former college players and coaches, that disagree with you. I guess they don't know anything about football.
Click to expand...
Big thing folks forget is you need folks who are terribly strong to play technique defense on the d line and so far we dont have them.....we can susually stalemate a OL but only after we have given up our area..We do show our dog though but so far nobody has been able to pick it up....I think you give Roof a Ole Miss like Wommack has and he does fine.He has got to have been pretty good coach to be at all the places he has coached at.
 
vamosjackets

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
Featured Member
Messages
2,147
33jacket said:
Its funny you are stating what I did in another thread here....alot in this thread as well

yes you are not ready to die on the hill...but you are coming around. Anyone who knows football knows what roof is doing is a joke. Don't be so afraid. Look at the tape

Ted doesn't attack blocking schemes. He sends bodies
He does roll coverages
he has little presnap motion with the LBs, and the S telegraph way too early. All these things are teaching things.

I can tell you his blitzes 10 seconds before they happen...you know who else can?

Tenuta pressured the blocking scheme. He disguised his mixes. Most times he only brought 5. Its night and day in the quality of the teaching
Click to expand...
I admit that his blitzes haven't been what I learned: you hit one of those on the head - not nearly as effective at disguising as a Tenuta D. And, they don't seem to be as varied. BUT...

But, they aren't the same coach, and they don't have the same strategy/philosophy, and they don't have the same personnel. I also will admit that there's more than one way to skin a cat. Offenses and defenses of all sorts are successful for all sorts of reasons. Mike Leach and CPJ have two of the best systems in football and they're polar opposite as far as balance ... but both of them will also tell you that they're more alike philosophically than anyone realizes (spreading out, distributing the ball, reading the defense on every play so that you're always right, having a different kind of system and recruiting to that system, etc). Tenuta blitzes >75% of the time while Spaziani (was at BC) hardly ever blitzed and Foster would be somewhere between the two. TOTALLY different systems. But, all can be effective. Again, there are some common fundamental philosophical things that I bet all three of those guys would all swear by. Point being, I can see your point, but I also am not ready to judge Roof looking through my Tenuta lens. I've seen him put a good product on the field. I think he's open to some criticism this year for the extreme badness and for some inconsistency throughout his career, but the DL issues give him some extra grace IMO.

Another thing I know, CPJ does not suffer fools. We've seen it already in his tenure. He's much different than CCG in this way. I loved CCG, but that was probably a weakness of his. If anybody is in position to judge the competence/incompetence of Roof, it's CPJ, and I'm confident that if a change needs to be made, he'll flat out do it and won't ask anybody's permission. And, if a change doesn't need to be made, he'll keep him no matter how much criticism he receives from the outside. So, I feel fine about the situation long term regardless. I just hope against hope that at some point before I'm old, GT will have a great O and D at the same time.
 

Jay Alexander

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
271
vamosjackets said:
If anybody is in position to judge the competence/incompetence of Roof, it's CPJ, and I'm confident that if a change needs to be made, he'll flat out do it and won't ask anybody's permission. And, if a change doesn't need to be made, he'll keep him no matter how much criticism he receives from the outside.
Click to expand...

This right here is why I'm a CPJ fan.
 
Top