They Have Figured Out Paul Johnson's Offense

[Skeptic]

ND and Duke:
Good game plan? Yes.
Good execution of their game plan? Yes.

Opposing DCs know or should know CPJ's offensive plays, his tendencies, and an overall idea of how they want to prep their defense on how to defend it. Along with any other offense they face on their schedule. That is their job as a DC. Just like CTR has knowledge of opposing offenses we face.

But when someone says, "They have figured out CPJs offense" I think they are disrespecting CPJ and his knowledge of the game. And I think it is a narrow minded statement that reveals one thing: That person's lack of faith CPJ as our coach.

ND executed a well laid out game plan by CBVG. He may not be so lucky next time.
DUKE was very fortunate... We gave them 20 points off of Special Teams mistakes.

You and I don't disagree at all. Perhaps I was not clear but to the extent they figured out his offense, it is to get at the QB before he is ready to make a decision. This they did. Both teams, special teams or defensive mistakes or not. Thomas, with a whole lot of help from ND and Duke and not much from his O line or Abacks on the edge, has had two terrible games as a result.

 

[Captain killem]

If JT had time to throw, I'm guessing he probably could and would. The 2 games in question, the blocking ALL of it was atrocious. Get that shored up and we will see what happens.

 

[Skeptic]

(1) I happen to like CPJ and have felt all along that his scheme gave us a chance because we were never going to be able to recruit the same top tier talent that the SEC schools (and Clemson/FSU/Louisville) can recruit.
(2) Having said that, I think while he is a very smart coach and an offensive genius, he isn't perfect.
(3) IMHO, his biggest weakness is that he has his system and he tries to fit everyone into that system. (You could argue it is also a great strength, I suppose...). The difficulty with that approach is that when we face adversity, CPJ has a tendency to double down on his system and not try to branch out to try other approaches that might work well agains the defensive schemes he is seeing;
(4) Most any running offense is going to suffer when the other team puts 8 (sometimes 9) in the box to stop us. That is what has happened to CPJ and his scheme cannot defeat that without a viable passing attack. We have had 3 good seasons under CPJ, 2008, 2009, and 2014. In 2008 & 2009 we had BeBe at WR and last year we had Smelter & Waller...all NFL caliber WR's. In years we don't have that, we flounder. (No, don't bother quoting me overall offensive stats which are piled up agains the likes of Syracuse or N C State....look at the offensive results against the good teams on our schedule...VPI&SU, Miami, Georgia & Clemson.)
(5) There's no real magic or rocket science to #4 above...I think it is true for just about any offense that if you become too one dimensional, good defenses can shut you down. You can get away with it against weaker teams, but against good defenses, you MUST become diversified, or you look like we did against VPI&SU or Miami. Against UGa we have had decidedly more success than this theory would argue for, but it holds quite well agains the other good teams on our schedule. (It is also true that our success against UGa in some years was predicated on successful passing, as was the case in 2013 with Vad Lee).

So, overall, I like CPJ and like his system, BUT I think he can be too stubborn about fitting into his way of doing things, and I really, REALLY think he tends to ignore the passing game far too much, and refuses to ever subscribe to the idea that you might need to pass to establish the run.

Teams are following #4 against us this year. I don't think it is the O line screwing up that is hurting us nearly as badly as the lack of a passing game. Want to back Cash off our center every play? Throw and complete a few passes...that'll pull him back off the LOS. Thinking that somehow just blocking better will solve this is ...not right, imho. We can stumble to another 6-6 type season that way, but if you really want to rebound in a big way, I think CPJ HAS to establish a passing threat.

Oh, one other thing I will give CPJ credit for. I think he wants to win more than any of us on this board, and I do believe he is willing to try to change things to get there. So, while I reserve the right to criticize him, and think he has indeed been out-coached the last tow games, I still think highly of him and wish him (and us) well.

Not to beat a dead horse. Well, actually, to beat a dead horse. Four games into the season following an 11-3 year and OB win over vaunted SEC West, leading the country (or near it, not sure) in rushing, and in the top three for the upteenth time, and setting more than a dozen GT O records, the "solutions" offered are ... do a bunch of stuff different now. In the first place that is nutso, in the second, it ain't gonna happen. I have some level of confidence that if the answers to Tech's problems could be found on a message board, Johnson and crew would be all over it. Why think up your own stuff when posters are doing it for you? Now we know why coaches make $3 million a year. Arggh.

 

[Animal02]

I would say it looks like JT has taken MORE risks the last two games, just trying to make SOMETHING happen. Just me.

He is definitely trying to do more himself, I just noticed things like stepping out of bounds instead of trying to make that last 1-2 yards etc........I am not saying it is a bad thing.

I have to think trying to do more on his own is a lack of trust of the new guys.

 

[Boomergump]

Not to beat a dead horse. Well, actually, to beat a dead horse. Four games into the season following an 11-3 year and OB win over vaunted SEC West, leading the country (or near it, not sure) in rushing, and in the top three for the upteenth time, and setting more than a dozen GT O records, the "solutions" offered are ... do a bunch of stuff different now. In the first place that is nutso, in the second, it ain't gonna happen. I have some level of confidence that if the answers to Tech's problems could be found on a message board, Johnson and crew would be all over it. Why think up your own stuff when posters are doing it for you? Now we know why coaches make $3 million a year. Arggh.

Thanks for this. I think we have to keep in mind that we just set a decade long CFB offensive efficiency record (by a long shot) last year. That doesn't happen when a system needs to be changed. We still have the QB and 80% of the OL intact from that team. We need to stay the course.

 

[Captain killem]

Preach boomer preach

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I have to think trying to do more on his own is a lack of trust of the new guys.

I have to wonder if he has any in the "old" guys, either?

 

[iceeater1969]

Thanks for this. I think we have to keep in mind that we just set a decade long CFB offensive efficiency record (by a long shot) last year. That doesn't happen when a system needs to be changed. We still have the QB and 80% of the OL intact from that team. We need to stay the course.

I totally agree with staying the course , however we should
1. - acknowledge the dc for uga, fsu, msu had total of 4 years of dc experience.
2. Have expected (after kicking Axx, ) that we would get blitzed ( I even knew that) accepting quick death verses ram it down the field. Duh - get the ball out of Thomas hands by pressuring him at every exchange point.
3. - with all the new skill players (Talking to one guy on staff , we really expected to miss smelter who "bailed us out many times. ) expected to have GREAT trouble running the inside to out or passing offense .

The coaches knew this and think they prepared for it, but the first 2 games were a complete waste of time and actually doing damage to the teams execution. Who could foresee that tulane would lay down in second half.
IMO
We are now licking our wounds based on nd du defenses being super prepared.
Would liked to have seen misdierction play calling but (dead horse )blocking the blitz sucked.
We are where we were after unc and that is good, because when we play fsu and uga we damn well expect a much better defensive plan. We have till end of oct to be ready to OWN NOV!
Let's roll

 

[MWBATL]

Thanks for this. I think we have to keep in mind that we just set a decade long CFB offensive efficiency record (by a long shot) last year. That doesn't happen when a system needs to be changed. We still have the QB and 80% of the OL intact from that team. We need to stay the course.

I respect your comments and Skeptics and AE87's before that....you all may well be correct, I don't know. I will try to repeat what I think was the main point of my post.....when we have performed well offensively, we had an effective passing threat. That was true last year with Smelter and Waller, and that was true in 2008/9 with Thomas.

I am not necessarily urging that we trash the system. In some respects my point is very simplistic...ANY offense become such easier to defense when it is one dimensional. Ours has been record breaking when it was TWO dimensional, not one dimensional.

In my humble opinion, the dimension that is missing is effective passing. It is simply very VERY hard to run into a stacked box. You have to be much better with your blocking and running for that to work.

The argument that w need to stay the course because we have been effective in the past misunderstands my thrust, I think. "The course" that we had last year, and in 2008/9 was a very effective dual threat offense. We would ALL love to see that again. I am NOT suggesting we abandon the triple option of get rid of our coach or any such things. I AM suggesting that simply blocking better (while always helpful, no doubt) will NOT get you there against the better defenses. It didn't last year (we had a passing threat) and it won't this year (without a passing threat).

I think those points are fairly simple. What is less simple is that we (I thunk) would all agree that our efforts to pass thus far have been rather futile, and it appears to me to be driven by the fact that so many of our routes are long-developing routes requiring 5 to 7 step drops with the blocking to support that. In other words, our passing is designed to strike based off of an effective running game that has lulled the defense to sleep.

We just don't seem to have a passing attack that is designed to complete some very quick three step drop type passes, which might have the desired effect of loosening the box.

I take the point that I am not paid $3MM a year to coach football or strategize about it. None of us are. We are simply a bunch of fans who all love GT football and are all discussing amongst ourselves what would help our beloved team the most. None of our thoughts are going into anyone's playbook for any future games.

Nevertheless, as a fan and an armchair QB (like most of us on here) my opinion remains that until we find an effective passing threat, we will not be effective against the better teams on our schedule. We weren't in 2010-3, and we won't be in 2015 unless we remedy that.

 

[MWBATL]

One other factoid to help me try to make my point....

GT offense vs Top Teams in 2010-2013 21.6 Points per game (19 data points)
GT offense against other Power 5 Teams 35.0 points per game (25 data points)

GT offense vs Top Teams in 2009 & 2014 30.8 points per game (12 data points) (Thomas and Smelter/Waller)
GT offense vs Power 5 Teams 40.9 points per game (11 data points)

Our offense against top teams without an effective passing attack averages 21.6 points per game. We just scored 22 vs Notre Dame and 20 vs Duke.

Just saying'........

Top Teams were defined as Clemson, Virginia Tech, Georgia, Miami, FSU and any SEC or Big Ten bowl opponent.
Little 5 teams such as Middle Tennessee, Tulane, Georgia Southern were excluded, as were FCS schools (Elon etc)

 

[BabyJacket1990]

So you don't like CPJ or....?

I have mix feelings towards him as the coach. I think a lot of guys that use this site have let one good season erase the mediocre ones. I am not convinced that Ted roof or Pelton have done enough to keep their jobs. CPJ is responsible for every aspect of the team and I think we are going to experience some growing pains in the next month or so. I could be very wrong and I hope that I am but the bowl streak is in jeopardy this season. When was the last time tech lost two in a row to Puke ??

 

[Buzz776g]

I respect your comments and Skeptics and AE87's before that....you all may well be correct, I don't know. I will try to repeat what I think was the main point of my post.....when we have performed well offensively, we had an effective passing threat. That was true last year with Smelter and Waller, and that was true in 2008/9 with Thomas.

I am not necessarily urging that we trash the system. In some respects my point is very simplistic...ANY offense become such easier to defense when it is one dimensional. Ours has been record breaking when it was TWO dimensional, not one dimensional.

In my humble opinion, the dimension that is missing is effective passing. It is simply very VERY hard to run into a stacked box. You have to be much better with your blocking and running for that to work.

The argument that w need to stay the course because we have been effective in the past misunderstands my thrust, I think. "The course" that we had last year, and in 2008/9 was a very effective dual threat offense. We would ALL love to see that again. I am NOT suggesting we abandon the triple option of get rid of our coach or any such things. I AM suggesting that simply blocking better (while always helpful, no doubt) will NOT get you there against the better defenses. It didn't last year (we had a passing threat) and it won't this year (without a passing threat).

I think those points are fairly simple. What is less simple is that we (I thunk) would all agree that our efforts to pass thus far have been rather futile, and it appears to me to be driven by the fact that so many of our routes are long-developing routes requiring 5 to 7 step drops with the blocking to support that. In other words, our passing is designed to strike based off of an effective running game that has lulled the defense to sleep.

We just don't seem to have a passing attack that is designed to complete some very quick three step drop type passes, which might have the desired effect of loosening the box.

I take the point that I am not paid $3MM a year to coach football or strategize about it. None of us are. We are simply a bunch of fans who all love GT football and are all discussing amongst ourselves what would help our beloved team the most. None of our thoughts are going into anyone's playbook for any future games.

Nevertheless, as a fan and an armchair QB (like most of us on here) my opinion remains that until we find an effective passing threat, we will not be effective against the better teams on our schedule. We weren't in 2010-3, and we won't be in 2015 unless we remedy that.

This has been brought up elsewhere and I'm sure you've thought of it -- but can JT see well enough at his height to make the quicker, shorter, shorter-drop passes?

I don't have an opinion on it, but would like to hear the opinions of others.

 

[Tdippp]

I have mix feelings towards him as the coach. I think a lot of guys that use this site have let one good season erase the mediocre ones. I am not convinced that Ted roof or Pelton have done enough to keep their jobs. CPJ is responsible for every aspect of the team and I think we are going to experience some growing pains in the next month or so. I could be very wrong and I hope that I am but the bowl streak is in jeopardy this season. When was the last time tech lost two in a row to Puke ??

When's the last time Duke had back-to-back 9 win seasons?

 

[chewybaka]

When's the last time Duke had back-to-back 9 win seasons?

Whoever does the scheduling has been kind to them...not playing Clemson or FSU enables this to be a possibility since those games are virtually automatic loses...like gatech used to be...

 

[Boomergump]

I respect your comments and Skeptics and AE87's before that....you all may well be correct, I don't know. I will try to repeat what I think was the main point of my post.....when we have performed well offensively, we had an effective passing threat. That was true last year with Smelter and Waller, and that was true in 2008/9 with Thomas.

I am not necessarily urging that we trash the system. In some respects my point is very simplistic...ANY offense become such easier to defense when it is one dimensional. Ours has been record breaking when it was TWO dimensional, not one dimensional.

In my humble opinion, the dimension that is missing is effective passing. It is simply very VERY hard to run into a stacked box. You have to be much better with your blocking and running for that to work.

The argument that w need to stay the course because we have been effective in the past misunderstands my thrust, I think. "The course" that we had last year, and in 2008/9 was a very effective dual threat offense. We would ALL love to see that again. I am NOT suggesting we abandon the triple option of get rid of our coach or any such things. I AM suggesting that simply blocking better (while always helpful, no doubt) will NOT get you there against the better defenses. It didn't last year (we had a passing threat) and it won't this year (without a passing threat).

I think those points are fairly simple. What is less simple is that we (I thunk) would all agree that our efforts to pass thus far have been rather futile, and it appears to me to be driven by the fact that so many of our routes are long-developing routes requiring 5 to 7 step drops with the blocking to support that. In other words, our passing is designed to strike based off of an effective running game that has lulled the defense to sleep.

We just don't seem to have a passing attack that is designed to complete some very quick three step drop type passes, which might have the desired effect of loosening the box.

I take the point that I am not paid $3MM a year to coach football or strategize about it. None of us are. We are simply a bunch of fans who all love GT football and are all discussing amongst ourselves what would help our beloved team the most. None of our thoughts are going into anyone's playbook for any future games.

Nevertheless, as a fan and an armchair QB (like most of us on here) my opinion remains that until we find an effective passing threat, we will not be effective against the better teams on our schedule. We weren't in 2010-3, and we won't be in 2015 unless we remedy that.

You won't hear me argue against having a better passing attack. Of course that would be great. However, deciding to practice a ton of throwing this week getting prepared for UNC, while our blocking assignments have been so screwed up in the run game, is probably not wise. I think you are spot on when characterizing our offense as most lethal in the years when we could throw it too. I guess I just see that as part of the current system as well.

 

[BabyJacket1990]

When's the last time Duke had back-to-back 9 win seasons?

More recent than Ga Tech.

 

[PBR549]

I respect your comments and Skeptics and AE87's before that....you all may well be correct, I don't know. I will try to repeat what I think was the main point of my post.....when we have performed well offensively, we had an effective passing threat. That was true last year with Smelter and Waller, and that was true in 2008/9 with Thomas.

I am not necessarily urging that we trash the system. In some respects my point is very simplistic...ANY offense become such easier to defense when it is one dimensional. Ours has been record breaking when it was TWO dimensional, not one dimensional.

In my humble opinion, the dimension that is missing is effective passing. It is simply very VERY hard to run into a stacked box. You have to be much better with your blocking and running for that to work.

The argument that w need to stay the course because we have been effective in the past misunderstands my thrust, I think. "The course" that we had last year, and in 2008/9 was a very effective dual threat offense. We would ALL love to see that again. I am NOT suggesting we abandon the triple option of get rid of our coach or any such things. I AM suggesting that simply blocking better (while always helpful, no doubt) will NOT get you there against the better defenses. It didn't last year (we had a passing threat) and it won't this year (without a passing threat).

I think those points are fairly simple. What is less simple is that we (I thunk) would all agree that our efforts to pass thus far have been rather futile, and it appears to me to be driven by the fact that so many of our routes are long-developing routes requiring 5 to 7 step drops with the blocking to support that. In other words, our passing is designed to strike based off of an effective running game that has lulled the defense to sleep.

We just don't seem to have a passing attack that is designed to complete some very quick three step drop type passes, which might have the desired effect of loosening the box.

I take the point that I am not paid $3MM a year to coach football or strategize about it. None of us are. We are simply a bunch of fans who all love GT football and are all discussing amongst ourselves what would help our beloved team the most. None of our thoughts are going into anyone's playbook for any future games.

Nevertheless, as a fan and an armchair QB (like most of us on here) my opinion remains that until we find an effective passing threat, we will not be effective against the better teams on our schedule. We weren't in 2010-3, and we won't be in 2015 unless we remedy that.

You are absolutely right about having a better passing attack but we have gotten behind the eight ball a little bit. Teams are giving us one on one coverage which is exactly what you want but so far ND and Duke have been able to shut us down. Loosing Summers and Searcy is a huge factor in that. The guys we have on the field now could not threaten the man defenders deep therefore could not gain separation on the shorter routes. Now will this delema continue? Of course there are more than one factor not the least of which is the ability of the defenders from here on out and how DCs choose to play us. I think we are on the way to solving the delema long term by the guys we recruited last year.

Having threats downfield pulls defenders out of the box. Believe me CPJ and every other coach in America knows this and is working on it with every tool in his tool box and he's an expert with those tools.

 

[GTHOSCHTON]

I think CPJ needs to figure out how to win this Saturday against UNC no matter what it takes...this program needs a win....we had momentun from last year....national stage against ND....recruiting starting to take a turn up.. and the team/coaches who ever falter there is no disgrace it happens...but I think we all want a team that can consistantaly play for the conference championship....beat uga once every three years and every once and a while be a playoff contender so winning 8 to 10 games a year is where we need to be.....CPJ likes to reference that he has done as well or better than those coaches before him....I dont think we hired him to just do a little better?? This is a huge game for the program in my opionion a win and we will gather some steam for Clemson who is going to be sky high for ND and we could be a great trap game for them, but lose this one and CPJ blames the players for lack of execution things could get ugly like maybe 4 or 5 wins tops, no bowl, and you know the rest.
with that said I will be there always cheering for GT I like CPJ he is funny as hell with his comments espicially when we win, I do wish he would take responsibilty for any loss we all now the players gotta play better to win, but you gotta get em to play for you if your the coach, and yes no one wants to win more than him he has an ego the size of Texas.

 

[AE 87]

@MWBATL
fwiw, I don't think most people dispute the need for a viable passing attack. I, at least, was disputing the suggestion that CPJ was more stubborn with his offense than any other coach.

I also think that the data you cited works both ways. When the running attack becomes more threatening, the passing game opens up more.

As for your data about better opponents, we' ve been in the top 20 in offensive efficiency (ppd vs pwr 5) almost every year (not 2010, and maybe not 2013 iirc). Obviously it goes down against top defenses.

 

[Mack]

I don't necessarily view it as a waste. Do I want to win 9-10 games and win a big bowl? Absolutely. And its there for the taking. But players grow and learn more sometimes when you lose than when you win. I hate it more than anyone. I hate to lose. But you can learn more from losses/mistakes than you can from wins/everything going your way. JT is still growing mentally as well, not just our underclassmen.

Agree with you but I think we have learned enough for one year from losing.....I hope we learned our lesson since we have to play hard from here on out.