The Culture is Real

[takethepoints]

I can speak to this, though from a very (believe it) dated perspective.

I played in both high school and college. I quit after my first year in college due to a second ACL in my right knee; there weren't any real treatments in those day besides a shot and exercises and I couldn't move on the field. But my coaches in both places were definitely not - I repeat strongly not - guys who made football fun. My college football practices were finely tuned torture sessions run by coaches who were both fair and feared. You had to earn their trust (as a frosh, I had absolutely none of that) by being tough in practice and in games. Breaking a smile in practice was grounds for being called out as not serious about winning. 20 of the team's starters had been at ACC or SEC schools before transferring and they all told me that at their old schools it was, if anything, even worse. And both in high school and in college my teams won. A lot. The college outfit was undefeated the year before I got there and lost one game the year I played.

And I actually enjoyed it. For one thing, I've always liked to hit and I got the opportunity. But it was more. We suffered, but it paid off. We never got much in the way of praise or recognition by the coaches, but it didn't signify; the team won and we knew it was largely because of them. And I made a few friendships as well.

Now you know one reason why I liked Paul and still feel ambivalent about Geoff. My coaches were really serious on the sidelines and in practice. The only fun we had was looking at the scoreboard and, believe me, that was enough.

But … my coaches weren't the only way to travel. I know that Dodd did things differently and got great results too. We'll just have to see if the "new culture" works. The way we'll find out - and the players will too - is when and if we start to win.

NB: I played at a Div 3 college. I'm not talking about a place like Tech, just the coaches's styles.

 

[Skeptic]

I can speak to this, though from a very (believe it) dated perspective.

I played in both high school and college. I quit after my first year in college due to a second ACL in my right knee; there weren't any real treatments in those day besides a shot and exercises and I couldn't move on the field. But my coaches in both places were definitely not - I repeat strongly not - guys who made football fun. My college football practices were finely tuned torture sessions run by coaches who were both fair and feared. You had to earn their trust (as a frosh, I had absolutely none of that) by being tough in practice and in games. Breaking a smile in practice was grounds for being called out as not serious about winning. 20 of the team's starters had been at ACC or SEC schools before transferring and they all told me that at their old schools it was, if anything, even worse. And both in high school and in college my teams won. A lot. The college outfit was undefeated the year before I got there and lost one game the year I played.

And I actually enjoyed it. For one thing, I've always liked to hit and I got the opportunity. But it was more. We suffered, but it paid off. We never got much in the way of praise or recognition by the coaches, but it didn't signify; the team won and we knew it was largely because of them. And I made a few friendships as well.

Now you know one reason why I liked Paul and still feel ambivalent about Geoff. My coaches were really serious on the sidelines and in practice. The only fun we had was looking at the scoreboard and, believe me, that was enough.

But … my coaches weren't the only way to travel. I know that Dodd did things differently and got great results too. We'll just have to see if the "new culture" works. The way we'll find out - and the players will too - is when and if we start to win.

NB: I played at a Div 3 college. I'm not talking about a place like Tech, just the coaches's styles.

One of my fondest memories is of a running back in high school, trying to play on a knee that already had been wrecked, wrecked it again. The pain had to be enormous, and a doctor in the stands -- it was an away game -- shot him full of something to get him back home with us and to a hospital. We drove through the gate and Clint unloaded a barrage of insults, curses and threats to a cop at the gate. Our coach was frantic, trying to convince the cop that he was out of his head. I know he was hurt, but I still like the memory.

 

[GTG768B]

Fired the DC responsible for MTSU, and the Choke job vs the mutts in 09. Changed the offense after 2013 because the reliance on passing and designed A-back runs lead to it having issues closing out games after trying to give the fans what they wanted. Dominated duke yearly the other half of that decade startign 7-0 against them until they surpassed us in program support and cutcliffe was able to start out recruiting. 2 wins vs FSU in the regular season something no coach had ever done btw since bowden got there.

Orange bowls, Acc championship games. Actual excitement in games of scoring touchdowns. Nah wasn't enjoyable at all.

3 wins vs FSU. I loved the CPJ years. I'm with you.

He's not our coach anymore. Get behind the new guy.

 

[jgtengineer]

3 wins vs FSU. I loved the CPJ years. I'm with you.

He's not our coach anymore. Get behind the new guy.

I am trying. He makes it rather hard. Something about the positivity all the time rubs me wrong when we are 3-9.

Compare that to Lundsford at southern. After a 7 and 5 season with two of those losses being to LSU and Minnsota and almost winning the MINN game. "7 wins doesn't cut it in statesboro"

 

[GCdaJuiceMan]

I am trying. He makes it rather hard. Something about the positivity all the time rubs me wrong when we are 3-9.

Compare that to Lundsford at southern. After a 7 and 5 season with two of those losses being to LSU and Minnsota and almost winning the MINN game. "7 wins doesn't cut it in statesboro"

Why? These two situations are completely different from one another. I understand what you are saying. We are all fans, deep down, we just want championships, heck maybe even an average of 8 wins a season, but you have to consider the circumstances. Stay with em, we need you now more than ever.

Go Jackets!

 

[jgtengineer]

Why? These two situations are completely different from one another. I understand what you are saying. We are all fans, deep down, we just want championships, heck maybe even an average of 8 wins a season, but you have to consider the circumstances. Stay with em, we need you now more than ever.

Go Jackets!

Not really. Lundsford took over a dumpster fire caused by loss poor coaching no identity on offense and a decline in recruiting. During to the 2 and 10 **** drain of tyson summers all he kept saying was **** like Collins. Gotta stay positive. Its a transition etc.

 

[GCdaJuiceMan]

Not really. Lundsford took over a dumpster fire caused by loss poor coaching no identity on offense and a decline in recruiting. During to the 2 and 10 **** drain of tyson summers all he kept saying was **** like Collins. Gotta stay positive. Its a transition etc.

In your first post you were comparing this year at Georgia Southern vs this year at Georgia Tech. I'm not going to discuss what happened 200 miles and 4 years ago in Statesboro, GA.

 

[jgtengineer]

In your first post you were comparing this year at Georgia Southern vs this year at Georgia Tech. I'm not going to discuss what happened 200 miles and 4 years ago in Statesboro, GA.

I was comparing the mentality of coaches. and you can actually compare Tyson Summers taking over for Willy Fritz to Collins. Summers was a career assistant and rather highly regarded in some circles DC. He looked the part. Bald, grew up around statesboro and south georgia, Went to games at paulson when he was younger watching Southern win championships. But what he did was put together a coaching staff of coaches that had been there through the darker times of Southern's recent history and the very bland Hatcher years where southern was going 7-4 and 6-5 running some sort of weird spread airraid hybrid.

Of course the Southern fanbase is a little different than ours. If you are down there sayign you are going to run something other than the option people don't buy tickets. So Summers said the buzz words of "triple option" every chance he got.

The product on saturdays turned out to be complete ****, they didn't run option, zone or any other kind. The offense was pretty much Matt Brieda left and Matt brieda right and Chuck it.

This was with the same roster that took us to the wire in 2014, and took UGA to overtime in 2015. The entire time when someone would ask him questions he would give platitude laden non answers about it being a process and how much he loved the school. He was fired before he could do much more damage after an 0-6 start. The guy they elevated bleeds Blue and white, elbow drops chairs after victories and finishes sentences with GATA, but he also doesn't think merely winning is good enough.

 

[GTG768B]

I was comparing the mentality of coaches. and you can actually compare Tyson Summers taking over for Willy Fritz to Collins. Summers was a career assistant and rather highly regarded in some circles DC. He looked the part. Bald, grew up around statesboro and south georgia, Went to games at paulson when he was younger watching Southern win championships. But what he did was put together a coaching staff of coaches that had been there through the darker times of Southern's recent history and the very bland Hatcher years where southern was going 7-4 and 6-5 running some sort of weird spread airraid hybrid.

Of course the Southern fanbase is a little different than ours. If you are down there sayign you are going to run something other than the option people don't buy tickets. So Summers said the buzz words of "triple option" every chance he got.

The product on saturdays turned out to be complete ****, they didn't run option, zone or any other kind. The offense was pretty much Matt Brieda left and Matt brieda right and Chuck it.

This was with the same roster that took us to the wire in 2014, and took UGA to overtime in 2015. The entire time when someone would ask him questions he would give platitude laden non answers about it being a process and how much he loved the school. He was fired before he could do much more damage after an 0-6 start. The guy they elevated bleeds Blue and white, elbow drops chairs after victories and finishes sentences with GATA, but he also doesn't think merely winning is good enough.

That's great. I'm glad that you respond to that style of coaching. Perhaps Collins realizes that shepherding his inherited players through a difficult transition year with the locker room intact is more important than any perceived gains from ****-talking his players and setting up BS false ultimatums for himself. Do you think that he is satisfied with 3-9 seasons? Really? Give me one quote where he says that.

 

[jgtengineer]

That's great. I'm glad that you respond to that style of coaching. Perhaps Collins realizes that shepherding his inherited players through a difficult transition year with the locker room intact is more important than any perceived gains from ****-talking his players and setting up BS false ultimatums for himself. Do you think that he is satisfied with 3-9 seasons? Really? Give me one quote where he says that.

I am saying that platitudes and "positivity" can get you through one season. And it did for summers his first season was bad. But if collins is doing the same routine next year? Nah.

The difference in coaching styles is the realist doesn't have to push a narrative. And yeah Its really obvious that people my age or older have a completely different view of discipline vs swag.

 

[Lee]

This was with the same roster that took us to the wire in 2014, and took UGA to overtime in 2015

This says everything. This US isn’t referring to GT, it’s referring to GSU. You’re a Paul fan that followed him here and don’t like that he’s gone and we didn’t hire another option disciple.

I’m sure his positive attitude has something to do with it, but when it boils down to it, it’s mostly because we didn’t hire another option coach.

The difference in coaching styles is the realist doesn't have to push a narrative. And yeah Its really obvious that people my age or older have a completely different view of discipline vs swag.

These two are not mutually exclusive. Take our team for instance. A coach full of swag and all about having fun. Said coach just happened to coach one of the least penalized teams in the nation (9th in fewest penalties/game).

Contrast that with Saban who is the most grumpy, old school, no fun, boring coach in college football who happened to coach the 122nd ranked team in penalties/game. Sure wish Saban would take things more seriously and run a tighter ship...

You can have a disciplined team and still have fun. I know that’s hard to believe for some of our older crowd, but it’s true.

One thing I think a lot of the fun police miss is that Collins isn’t just goofing off. The man is one of the most detail oriented people on the planet from all reports. Also, as a player, it’s a lot easier to play for a guy/leader you respect because of how he treats you (Collins) than one that you respect because you have to (Saban).

 

[684Bee]

This says everything. This US isn’t referring to GT, it’s referring to GSU.

You may want to read that again.

 

[MacJacket]

I am saying that platitudes and "positivity" can get you through one season. And it did for summers his first season was bad. But if collins is doing the same routine next year? Nah.

The difference in coaching styles is the realist doesn't have to push a narrative. And yeah Its really obvious that people my age or older have a completely different view of discipline vs swag.

Like us, Southern has a roster built for option. We moved a different direction and got the results that all the analysts expected. They had zero real transition. There is absolutely no correlation between their coaching change and ours.

So when Southern gets multiple players ejected after a swag dance off, what is that? Swag or discipline?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

This says everything. This US isn’t referring to GT, it’s referring to GSU. You’re a Paul fan that followed him here and don’t like that he’s gone and we didn’t hire another option disciple.

You sir, do not know how to read.

 

[GTG768B]

I am saying that platitudes and "positivity" can get you through one season. And it did for summers his first season was bad. But if collins is doing the same routine next year? Nah.

The difference in coaching styles is the realist doesn't have to push a narrative. And yeah Its really obvious that people my age or older have a completely different view of discipline vs swag.

Again... What are you really saying? Collins has only had one year, so you are just saying "he had better not be saying the same thing next year"? He has hammered the same talking points to the point of exhaustion... We are laying the groundwork for the future. We are learning how to prepare and follow a process. We are emphasizing recruiting and player development. We care about our players. You can call it a "narrative" and compare him to some other unrelated dude, or call him a snake oil salesman, or whatever it is you are trying to do, or you can take it at face value and just support the guy. None of us, including Collins and the team, are happy or satisfied with 3-9. Noone knows how this is going to turn out. If he is 3-9 in year 3, of course the message will have worn thin, but right now, what would be the benefit of being a hard-*** and trashing the players' effort for the season? And be honest, if he was being a hard ***, but the record was the same, would you really be more supportive of his regime? Really?

 

[jgtengineer]

This says everything. This US isn’t referring to GT, it’s referring to GSU. You’re a Paul fan that followed him here and don’t like that he’s gone and we didn’t hire another option disciple.

I’m sure his positive attitude has something to do with it, but when it boils down to it, it’s mostly because we didn’t hire another option coach.




These two are not mutually exclusive. Take our team for instance. A coach full of swag and all about having fun. Said coach just happened to coach one of the least penalized teams in the nation (9th in fewest penalties/game).

Contrast that with Saban who is the most grumpy, old school, no fun, boring coach in college football who happened to coach the 122nd ranked team in penalties/game. Sure wish Saban would take things more seriously and run a tighter ship...

You can have a disciplined team and still have fun. I know that’s hard to believe for some of our older crowd, but it’s true.

One thing I think a lot of the fun police miss is that Collins isn’t just goofing off. The man is one of the most detail oriented people on the planet from all reports. Also, as a player, it’s a lot easier to play for a guy/leader you respect because of how he treats you (Collins) than one that you respect because you have to (Saban).

Mate as others have pointed out you did not read. I said took US (GT) to the wire in 2014. And UGA in 2015. You were so ready to fire that response you did not even read what was really written. You must not like attention to detail. And for the record you can go find me posting that I wanted Tony Elliot. You can also find me posting that when collins was hired and thacker was his DC i said I liked it. Same with Choice etc. I actually agreed with Paternaude's hiring a little bit as well. His coastal teams were flex based and he was saying all the right things. Even in the clemson game I didn't get mad when **** wasn't being executed. However by USF it became apparent things were far worse than they appeared.

There is a fine line between respect and seeing someone as a peer and thus when Collins has to suspend someone for a game or two or even kick someone off the team it becomes a " Hey man I thought we were friends?" And it can easily turn an entire locker room on you because you end up looking like a hypocrite. The same thing can happen in the business world when you are in positions of leadership.

As for the discipline thing, you are looking at only one single aspect of it (penalties). Which that loose mentality lead to how many against Citadel contributing to that loss? I have to wonder which was more effective at instilling discipline. Collins culture or national embarrassment?

Discipline is about every single thing you do. How you approach training, school, the game and how you get kids to trust the process. If you play it to loose you get people second guessing what they are suppose to do, reacting slowly and failing on the field. Because they think "it's ok to mess up, we are building with tremendous effort" Complacency in failure is HUGE problem. Teams tend to reflect their head coaches. Look how many times Braun gave interviews with answers similiar to Johnson. Or JT or Jamal Golden. (there was sweating's infamous post game interview gaff but that was rare).

All in all. I am a Tech fan and I am a southern Fan. But when I became a southern fan, Johnson was gone. When i became a tech fan? 1997. So yeah I guess I was an option fan, the fridge-option.

 

[jgtengineer]

Again... What are you really saying? Collins has only had one year, so you are just saying "he had better not be saying the same thing next year"? He has hammered the same talking points to the point of exhaustion... We are laying the groundwork for the future. We are learning how to prepare and follow a process. We are emphasizing recruiting and player development. We care about our players. You can call it a "narrative" and compare him to some other unrelated dude, or call him a snake oil salesman, or whatever it is you are trying to do, or you can take it at face value and just support the guy. None of us, including Collins and the team, are happy or satisfied with 3-9. Noone knows how this is going to turn out. If he is 3-9 in year 3, of course the message will have worn thin, but right now, what would be the benefit of being a hard-*** and trashing the players' effort for the season? And be honest, if he was being a hard ***, but the record was the same, would you really be more supportive of his regime? Really?

Honestly, we could have used a little more "Losing to Citadel is completely inexcusable" Conviction after that game. And After Temple bent us over a barrel, all he could do was spin "how great that roster is" No one cares, you knew that roster, you knew what they were going to do. if there were any team you could scheme for its that one and what? A backhanded brag about something you really didn't have a hand in if anyone researches it? Then in another interview completely unrelated to us he brought it up again several games later. He showed at times a blatant lack of knowledge with regards to the rules of the game. How many illegal subs did we have in one game? You can't just sub on defense you wait until you see the ref run up to the line if you are doing that big of a line change.

Or how about you field negative questions on your radio show instead of filter everything and prerecord it?

Paul fielded just about anything including barking idiots.

Respect is earned not given from a fandom. Collins said all the right things in the offseason. We were ready for some delivery on it. Johnson said some of the same things his first year (winning championships etc) but he would never say something like " So and So is an ELITE talent" then never play him. And we've all heard the infamous garner webb halftime speech story from Roddy Jones.

 

[jgtengineer]

Like us, Southern has a roster built for option. We moved a different direction and got the results that all the analysts expected. They had zero real transition. There is absolutely no correlation between their coaching change and ours.

So when Southern gets multiple players ejected after a swag dance off, what is that? Swag or discipline?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Both teams had players ejected for something that should never have had a flag thrown it wasn't any different than anything we would even do under johnson or bama teams do under saban.

Southern's roster had actually been gutted of option offensive lineman. They had recruited big bodies to run zone. Not really paying attention to the best bodies and Wertz was ironically recruited by Summers to throw. They had also changed the back they were recruiting. And were attempting to run option last season with about 4 running backs total and several converted slot receivers including their current kid Wesley Kennedy. The transition that is like ours is the one where they went from Fritz to Summers. Summers tried to correct it by hiring bryan cook but then told him he couldn't run out of flex pistol or flex bone, they had to look like a spread team. Which lead to them being predictable even with matt brieda who is currently in the nfl. In 2016 they got 5 wins based solely on Ellison and upshaw being able to scramble they threw the ball 264 times (compared to a normal option team). In 2017 they threw it less but the majority of their "option" plays were simple like ours this year. Read option behind zone. if they had played teams they couldn't out athlete... well.

This year was a pretty bad year for them offensively as well because they just don't have the pieces to run option football with experience in system right now and the sad thing is they don't have the pieces to run a different type either.

Honestly if Johnson hadn't been the guru he is with blocking schemes. 2008 would have been a rather bad year. He turned TE's and DL into veer tackles and designed some plays to get Thomas and Dwyer one on one with people. He didn't run his offense really until 2009, not the way we came to know it if you go back and watch some of those games from 08 you will see what I mean. We had Power I goal line packages. Delay draws. Dwyer is a good 2 more yards back than traditional B-back alignment and so is the mesh, we ran zone dive a lot.

 

[GTG768B]

Honestly, we could have used a little more "Losing to Citadel is completely inexcusable" Conviction after that game. And After Temple bent us over a barrel, all he could do was spin "how great that roster is" No one cares, you knew that roster, you knew what they were going to do. if there were any team you could scheme for its that one and what? A backhanded brag about something you really didn't have a hand in if anyone researches it? Then in another interview completely unrelated to us he brought it up again several games later. He showed at times a blatant lack of knowledge with regards to the rules of the game. How many illegal subs did we have in one game? You can't just sub on defense you wait until you see the ref run up to the line if you are doing that big of a line change.

Or how about you field negative questions on your radio show instead of filter everything and prerecord it?

Paul fielded just about anything including barking idiots.

Respect is earned not given from a fandom. Collins said all the right things in the offseason. We were ready for some delivery on it. Johnson said some of the same things his first year (winning championships etc) but he would never say something like " So and So is an ELITE talent" then never play him. And we've all heard the infamous garner webb halftime speech story from Roddy Jones.

So the sky is falling?

I guess we are just on different sides of the glass half full/half empty debate. Have a great day.

 

[Skeptic]

This says everything. This US isn’t referring to GT, it’s referring to GSU. You’re a Paul fan that followed him here and don’t like that he’s gone and we didn’t hire another option disciple.

I’m sure his positive attitude has something to do with it, but when it boils down to it, it’s mostly because we didn’t hire another option coach.




These two are not mutually exclusive. Take our team for instance. A coach full of swag and all about having fun. Said coach just happened to coach one of the least penalized teams in the nation (9th in fewest penalties/game).

Contrast that with Saban who is the most grumpy, old school, no fun, boring coach in college football who happened to coach the 122nd ranked team in penalties/game. Sure wish Saban would take things more seriously and run a tighter ship...

You can have a disciplined team and still have fun. I know that’s hard to believe for some of our older crowd, but it’s true.

One thing I think a lot of the fun police miss is that Collins isn’t just goofing off. The man is one of the most detail oriented people on the planet from all reports. Also, as a player, it’s a lot easier to play for a guy/leader you respect because of how he treats you (Collins) than one that you respect because you have to (Saban).

I don't think I have ever heard so many spectacular superlatives as associated with a coach who has yet to achieve accomplishments to match. Between "monumental", "...rebuild in the history of ", "great recruiter" and now right there at the top "on the planet" with details, there doesn't seem to be much wriggle room should one dissent. Personally, I think it way too early to chisel a view in stone either way.

Not sure if you recall the opening salvos of this "fun" atmosphere in Division One football, though it had great success in lower classifications. It started with Dabo Swinney at Clemson, and early on a lot of us saw him as kind of silly and wrote him off. It is 10 years, five ACC titles, two NCs, and now (presumably) Clemson's fifth straight NC appearance. Now he is emulated at Louisville, UNC-Charlotte, Arizona State, and even at UNC-Chapel Hill where an old head like Mack Brown has signed on to the philosophy full bore after burning out at Texas. They do it differently, but the philosophy is the same. For Swinney it is "all in", meaning getting players, coaches, staff wives of coaches, the administration right up to the school president, and faculty "all in" with the football program. (He also does stuff like cookouts for everybody, including wives or girlfriends, and once he rented an entire amusement park for a day for everybody. Brent Venables once said if there was an hour of practice time left in the week he would always opt for another walk-through, but Dabo would likely give them the time off.

A lot of the voters on the playoff committee are old-school and some seem to resent such an approach being successful because it wasn't done that way back then. It shows sometime in the voting.

So if Collins is about fun, he is far from the first and in all likelihood got it from Clemson, but the "culture" is an incredibly difficult thing to implement. "Fun" is just part of it, and maybe a minor part.

I don't get "easier to play for" Collins than Saban, unless Saban is more demanding? From all accounts the Alabama atmosphere is stifling; once again he probably will fire about half his coaching staff, yet there he is: leads in recruiting, leads in sending players to the NFL -- I think I read 11 projected this season -- leads in winning, and leads in the sport's greatest shill, Paul Finebaum. I am pretty sure his players respect him because he has earned it. One doesn't have to like him or his methods to respect him. Finally, I doubt "demanding" respect ever worked for anybody.