The Citadel Postgame

[RonJohn]

We got whooped upfront on both sides of the ball. Can’t coach that. Gotta get some horses in here or we are gonna be seeing a new coach before the MBS deal is up. Collins has to recruit or his scheme will never work.

Were you at the game? Did you see the players on the field? GT players were bigger and faster at every position. This loss was definitely not due to a lack of talent at GT.

 

[RonJohn]

It’s funny none of the pics were of anyone on either line just all the skill dudes flexing while oiled up.

Also, the before pics and after pics had different lighting to hide then highlight muscle shadows. I don't doubt that the guys developed more muscle, but the way they made the pics they released would have looked different even if they had lost muscle. I think those were posted as a reaction to the mutt posts a few years ago. I guess you have to win on Twitter in order to recruit.

 

[33jacket]

Were you at the game? Did you see the players on the field? GT players were bigger and faster at every position. This loss was definitely not due to a lack of talent at GT.

this loss for sure wasn't due to that. It was lack of preparation. The players were CRAP all week in practice. CRAP. They totally deserved this loss. compounded by a few coaching blunders at the most critical time

Now, every other loss from here on out, I guarantee you there isn't one team tech will be more talented in. Even temple has more talent.

 

[LongforDodd]

How many games had Thacker coached against the TO? IDK but it looked like zero though

 

[jandrews]

this loss for sure wasn't due to that. It was lack of preparation. The players were CRAP all week in practice. CRAP. They totally deserved this loss. compounded by a few coaching blunders at the most critical time

Now, every other loss from here on out, I guarantee you there isn't one team tech will be more talented in. Even temple has more talent.

Talent is based on recruiting rankings? Eye test? If you average UVA and techs last several recruiting rankings we are about even. They just have coordinators that are utilizing their talent better. I’m still pissed at how our offense looks. There is no cohesion. Just random grouping of plays. We got 2.67 pts/drive during regular time against citadel. With a banged up OL, you don’t put a pocket passer in their that holds on to the ball. Just horrible roster management.

 

[buzzmaniac]

How many games had Thacker coached against the TO? IDK but it looked like zero though

I think he was LB coach at Kennesaw St. in 2016 and at Temple they faced Navy and Army. Add that to the fact most of our players saw it every day in the past and it makes you scratch your head.

 

[kalld12]

Hard to be a starting QB when The only pivotal situations you are in are 3rd and longs with the game on the line, after you’ve sat most of 2nd half.

Our coaches kept the Citadel in this game and our coaches lost this game.

TO is not a starting QB at this time because he IS NOT a passing threat. Both QBs under threw balls. LJ under threw Camp on the TD and TO under threw Camp late in the seam but LJs was a passing TD none the less. He is not one dimensional

Put TO in against any ACC team with a secondary and we lose because we aren’t running a true option anymore and the defense just plays 8-9 in the box

TO is a runner and LJ is a passer with some running ability. No passing threat equals 9 in the box

Either way Collins just needs to stop rotating and let somebody emerge !

So you're honestly stating that you believe LJ is a better option than Tobias? Your argument is that Tobias can't throw yet he's thrown the rock better than LJ has. Tobias commands the offense much better than LJ. Tobias has scrambling ability, LJ does not. While i'm not here saying Tobias is the Savior, i ABSOLUTELY believe he gives us the best shot to win, if they stack the box, then you throw over top of them just like we did with the Triple Option. Its not rocket science here. I personally want to see more of Graham and what he can do. I know he was hurt this past weekend, but I have a feeling he will get playing time especially if we lose the next 3 games, which right now looks to be about 60/40 that we will.

 

[BuzzStone]

Why are we arguing about the QB when the real problem we need to solve first is our coaching? Our game management has been bad in every game this year. That needs to be fixed first.

 

[kalld12]

Why are we arguing about the QB when the real problem we need to solve first is our coaching? Our game management has been bad in every game this year. That needs to be fixed first.

Agree it starts with coaching, but i'd say of all positions, QB is the most critical we figure it out soon, it has to be TO or JG moving forward. Lucas gives us no shot to win!

 

[BuzzStone]

I get that, but neither has a shot the way the games are being handled. We have 3 options that properly managed would give us a chance to win.

 

[kg01]

I think he was LB coach at Kennesaw St. in 2016 and at Temple they faced Navy and Army. Add that to the fact most of our players saw it every day in the past and it makes you scratch your head.

We've never defended option plays well though, which has always confounded.

 

[33jacket]

Talent is based on recruiting rankings? Eye test? If you average UVA and techs last several recruiting rankings we are about even. They just have coordinators that are utilizing their talent better. I’m still pissed at how our offense looks. There is no cohesion. Just random grouping of plays. We got 2.67 pts/drive during regular time against citadel. With a banged up OL, you don’t put a pocket passer in their that holds on to the ball. Just horrible roster management.

Recruiting rankings are a slathered joke now. I can assure you our starting OL and Qbs are bottom in acc and the OL is fcs or entry level fbs quality. So call it eye test and knowing the game.

Defense is more talented. But not so much so that my statement can be challenged too heavy its borderline argument only

Even with a not banged up ol we needed 2-3 walkons in the two deep. Dude. Listen. Thats not on coach. Thats what he has to play with. Cpj was an awful recruiter and we all know it. Its not defensible. I am sorry.

Collins sucked vs citadel. But every game except that one gt wont out talent anyone. Usf has more. Temple does too.

 

[RonJohn]

this loss for sure wasn't due to that. It was lack of preparation. The players were CRAP all week in practice. CRAP. They totally deserved this loss. compounded by a few coaching blunders at the most critical time

Now, every other loss from here on out, I guarantee you there isn't one team tech will be more talented in. Even temple has more talent.

Yet people in this thread are complaining about talent. If a poster complains about talent related to this loss, to me they lose credibility. If we lose to another team, of course those posters will blame it on talent since they are blaming this one on talent.

There are issues bigger than talent that need to be corrected. I am certain that this forum is going to be filled with posts that argue by putting down the players, and putting down the coaches. There will be very few that actually try to discuss actual issues. It might be time to start ignoring the forums.

 

[jandrews]

Recruiting rankings are a slathered joke now. I can assure you our starting OL and Qbs are bottom in acc and the OL is fcs or entry level fbs quality. So call it eye test and knowing the game.

Defense is more talented. But not so much so that my statement can be challenged too heavy its borderline argument only

Even with a not banged up ol we needed 2-3 walkons in the two deep. Dude. Listen. Thats not on coach. Thats what he has to play with. Cpj was an awful recruiter and we all know it. Its not defensible. I am sorry.

Collins sucked vs citadel. But every game except that one gt wont out talent anyone. Usf has more. Temple does too.

If the game is played just on paper based on talent every team except Alabama and Clemson should just give up.

My question with regards to this whole discussion is the coaching staff putting the offensive players in the best position to succeed and perform well? From what I’ve seen the answer is a resounding no at times.

We can debate all day long about talent or lack there of and who passes the eye ball test or more knowledge to the game but the offense looks like complete and utter chaos/garbage. That fault falls completely on the coaching staff. “Pro style” offenses still run the ball to setup other plays. We look like we are running plays purely to run them. Like LJ RPO against USF. It netted a couple yards but we didn’t build off of it.

 

[Technut1990]

So you're honestly stating that you believe LJ is a better option than Tobias? Your argument is that Tobias can't throw yet he's thrown the rock better than LJ has. Tobias commands the offense much better than LJ. Tobias has scrambling ability, LJ does not. While i'm not here saying Tobias is the Savior, i ABSOLUTELY believe he gives us the best shot to win, if they stack the box, then you throw over top of them just like we did with the Triple Option. Its not rocket science here. I personally want to see more of Graham and what he can do. I know he was hurt this past weekend, but I have a feeling he will get playing time especially if we lose the next 3 games, which right now looks to be about 60/40 that we will.

Really ? who scrambled for a game saving first down against USF. ? 12 yards to be exact. TO was 2-5 Saturday if you really think he is a option threat, which I agree he is a triple option threat, then he needs to be in a triple option not a shotgun RPO. The RPO works because the QB has a pass option meaning that the QB can pass. TO isn't a passing threat and yes they will load the box and no it isn't rocket science you base your analysis on what you see. What we have seen is TO against USF and Citadel and hitting 4 out of 10 pass attempts, did you see his passing against a real defense , Clemson ?.

but what we are arguing about dosen't matter. We have ran the ball 3 times more than we've passed it and we are 1-2. We ran it 3 times more than we passed Saturday and we lost. We aren't even running the ball well with our RBs, and when I say well, yes Mason is a stud but he struggled to get his 100 and he got it at the end of the 4th on a 25 yard run.

 

[AE 87]

Last year, iirc, Tobias ran a lot of zone options. We still have the speed option in our playbook, iiuc. However, I don't think we run enough perimeter option stuff now. It allows the opposing D to crowd the box.

 

[Technut1990]

Last year, iirc, Tobias ran a lot of zone options. We still have the speed option in our playbook, iiuc. However, I don't think we run enough perimeter option stuff now. It allows the opposing D to crowd the box.

which puts use back in the same spot, the coaches would have to have open minds and change the play calling even if we went that way.

The issue I have with TO running in this system, aside from his passing, is we aren't comparing apples to apples. In the triple option TO had 3 backs any of which he could have handed off to or pitched it to and any of which were serving as lead blockers when he ran. In the RPO he has one back, harder to decoy the defense.

 

[ibeattetris]

A couple things I had been thinking about with regards to people complaining about our defensive performance. While I do think the way we attacked the 30 was incorrect, I do think there was a bit more to it.

By now, most of us should be pretty aware of the pros/cons of the offense Citadel was running. These are just my thoughts about why the 30 was almost a perfect offense to counter us.

Secondary: Our strength. It's what we are going to lean on in defense. The 30 pretty much neutralizes this advantage. Our core strength on defense gets taken away just due to the other team's scheme.

Lineman: Unless you have NFL caliber d lineman, the weight/size advantage in the trenches doesn't really matter. There have been so many cases where our line would push around bigger guys in the past, that I am not surprised with the result.

Linebacker: This isn't our team's strength, and it's sadly one of the position groups we really needed to play at a high level. Just having one super athletic linebacker might have been enough to turn the tides, but I didn't see anyone step up.

All that being said, I am not concerned with the defense. I think we could have done things better schematically, but this is just one opponent. When we get back to more standard NCAA offenses, I think we are going to begin looking much better. I'd wager a lot that no other team will hold the ball for over 42 minutes against us.

 

[Animal02]

A couple things I had been thinking about with regards to people complaining about our defensive performance. While I do think the way we attacked the 30 was incorrect, I do think there was a bit more to it.

By now, most of us should be pretty aware of the pros/cons of the offense Citadel was running. These are just my thoughts about why the 30 was almost a perfect offense to counter us.

Secondary: Our strength. It's what we are going to lean on in defense. The 30 pretty much neutralizes this advantage. Our core strength on defense gets taken away just due to the other team's scheme.

Lineman: Unless you have NFL caliber d lineman, the weight/size advantage in the trenches doesn't really matter. There have been so many cases where our line would push around bigger guys in the past, that I am not surprised with the result.

Linebacker: This isn't our team's strength, and it's sadly one of the position groups we really needed to play at a high level. Just having one super athletic linebacker might have been enough to turn the tides, but I didn't see anyone step up.

All that being said, I am not concerned with the defense. I think we could have done things better schematically, but this is just one opponent. When we get back to more standard NCAA offenses, I think we are going to begin looking much better. I'd wager a lot that no other team will hold the ball for over 42 minutes against us.

The defense won the game against SF.....and the defense did not lose the game against the Citadel.
That is the one area that has shown undoubted improvement.

 

[white coffey]

The defense won the game against SF.....and the defense did not lose the game against the Citadel.
That is the one area that has shown undoubted improvement.

Improved yes. But 60 yards in personal fouls and 24 points to an FCS school? Allowing their offense to stay on the field for 42 minutes? The defense didn’t exactly shine. Looking forward to seeing where the D goes from here though. Good things overall.