The ACC will delay the start of competition for all fall sports until at least Sept. 1

[Deleted member 2897]

Just like many of us here have been saying for a long time - the decision to not play football never had anything to do with the health and safety of student athletes. It shouldn’t be funny, but it is quite hilarious that these same university presidents that unanimously voted against playing now unanimously vote towards playing just a couple months later.

 

[MWBATL]

Speaking of covid on college campuses, here is this factoid in today's WSJ (emphasis is mine)

Twenty-nine large universities including Notre Dame, the University of North Carolina, and Illinois State had reported some 26,000 cases by Sept. 9 yet no hospitalizations. Nationwide, hospitalizations are down 16% or so from Sept. 1 and half since their peak on July 23, according to the Covid Tracking Project.

Again, young people are simply not nearly as susceptible to this disease for serious health problems. #Science #Facts

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Speaking of covid on college campuses, here is this factoid in today's WSJ (emphasis is mine)

Twenty-nine large universities including Notre Dame, the University of North Carolina, and Illinois State had reported some 26,000 cases by Sept. 9 yet no hospitalizations. Nationwide, hospitalizations are down 16% or so from Sept. 1 and half since their peak on July 23, according to the Covid Tracking Project.

Again, young people are simply not nearly as susceptible to this disease for serious health problems. #Science #Facts

Our local hospitals here peaked in July with hundreds of COVID patients in the hospital. Those numbers are now down 90%+. And that’s across all ages. Like everyone else, we’ve never had younger patients in the hospital. We do have the occasional outlier, such as a pediatric death in a patient with a highly compromised immune system (we had a kid in the later stages of fighting cancer).

This is also why Dr Fauci continues to look stupid when he argues about herd immunity thresholds. Various mathematicians have estimated herd immunity with COVID to be about half of the traditional understandings, due to the nature of how many older people are isolating and not part of society as they usually are, and how younger people are all but immune to it in the first place. He is an obstinate negative old man. I guess when you make over $500,000 per year for decades you develop a God complex.

 

[orientalnc]

Once colleges sent students home would they absolutely know if one of them was hospitalized? I am not questioning the data accuracy as far as the colleges know it to be.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Once colleges sent students home would they absolutely know if one of them was hospitalized? I am not questioning the data accuracy as far as the colleges know it to be.

The vast majority of colleges have not sent students home. But the hospitalization data by age nationwide is available too - you just won’t be able to parse that by University.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Our school ****ing rocks.

 

[WreckinGT]

Just like many of us here have been saying for a long time - the decision to not play football never had anything to do with the health and safety of student athletes. It shouldn’t be funny, but it is quite hilarious that these same university presidents that unanimously voted against playing now unanimously vote towards playing just a couple months later.

Ok, so the decisions to postpone seasons had nothing to do with the health and well being of the student athletes. What was it about then?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Ok, so the decisions to postpone seasons had nothing to do with the health and well being of the student athletes. What was it about then?

We already covered that through several pages of conversations and you were involved in that. Risk, lawsuits, money.

 

[WreckinGT]

We already covered that through several pages of conversations and you were involved in that. Risk, lawsuits, money.

If health and well being aren't at risk then what were the risks driving their decision? What were they afraid of being sued for if health and well being were not legitimate concerns? You can't say that they were afraid of students getting sick or having long term side effects and suing them, but at the same time they didn't care about the health and well being of the student athletes. Those two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

If health and well being aren't at risk then what were the risks driving their decision? What were they afraid of being sued for if health and well being were not legitimate concerns? You can't say that they were afraid of students getting sick or having long term side effects and suing them, but at the same time they didn't care about the health and well being of the student athletes. Those two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

Again, we already covered this topic across several pages and you were included in that. I’ll take one last time to go through it again. Football teams for several months have been together practicing and playing. There is no evidence that transmission while playing football is a material risk. However, dorms, fraternity houses, bars, restaurants, parties, etc are - we have more examples of those super spreader events than we can count. Injuries like broken bones and CTE are also a much higher risk. But Universities can claim plausible deniability with respect to student behavior, yet still get their money for dorms, apartments, tuition, and meal plans. As we have seen and had proven time and time again, there is no science behind not playing sports. All sports at all levels have been playing. It looks like some Presidents have finally realized their corporate attorneys were giving them bad scare-porn advice. It’s almost like they had to see firsthand that yes the data is real, the health risk to young people and especially super fit student athletes is about as close to zero as you can get. Thankfully, they were a few leagues that followed the science from the beginning.

 

[WreckinGT]

Again, we already covered this topic across several pages and you were included in that. I’ll take one last time to go through it again. Football teams for several months have been together practicing and playing. There is no evidence that transmission while playing football is a material risk. However, dorms, fraternity houses, bars, restaurants, parties, etc are - we have more examples of those super spreader events than we can count. Injuries like broken bones and CTE are also a much higher risk. But Universities can claim plausible deniability with respect to student behavior, yet still get their money for dorms, apartments, tuition, and meal plans. As we have seen and had proven time and time again, there is no science behind not playing sports. All sports at all levels have been playing. It looks like some Presidents have finally realized their corporate attorneys were giving them bad scare-porn advice. It’s almost like they had to see firsthand that yes the data is real, the health risk to young people and especially super fit student athletes is about as close to zero as you can get. Thankfully, they were a few leagues that followed the science from the beginning.

We did cover it and you never actually gave an answer then either. You can disagree with the decision all that you want, but you are going further than that and claiming that Presidents of the Big 10 and their advisors do not care about the safety and well being of their student athletes and none of their decisions were ever based off of that. You seem to think they accepted all of the criticism they have taken and money they have lost simply because of liability risks that apparently don't even exist because the health of student athletes was never a concern of theirs anyways. Im sure you already know that doesn't make any sense.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

We did cover it and you never actually gave an answer then either. You can disagree with the decision all that you want, but you are going further than that and claiming that Presidents of the Big 10 and their advisors do not care about the safety and well being of their student athletes and none of their decisions were ever based off of that. You seem to think they accepted all of the criticism they have taken and money they have lost simply because of liability risks that apparently don't even exist because the health of student athletes was never a concern of theirs anyways. Im sure you already know that doesn't make any sense.

Now you’re just being silly like you are sometimes want to do. Yes I did say all of this several times before, and yes it is all here once again. Saying this is not an answer is funny. I am just following the science. They clearly have not been, as I’ve laid out here several times. And now that they have completely reversed their decisions despite nothing having changed in the world, they are proving it yet again. When you make the decisions they did, in complete contradiction of the science, IIWII. You can assign a different excuse for it than I do, but the end result is identical.

You don’t let tens of thousands of students get exposed to rapid transmission as guinea pigs, try to insulate a couple hundred differently, and say it’s about health and safety. It’s pitifully laughable. Thankfully, they’ve fessed up.

 

[whitegoldsphinx]

Ok, so the decisions to postpone seasons had nothing to do with the health and well being of the student athletes. What was it about then?

I believe that was the intent, but it turned out to be a case of Chicken Little syndrome.

 

[WreckinGT]

Now you’re just being silly like you are sometimes want to do. Yes I did say all of this several times before, and yes it is all here once again. Saying this is not an answer is funny. I am just following the science. They clearly have not been, as I’ve laid out here several times. And now that they have completely reversed their decisions despite nothing having changed in the world, they are proving it yet again. When you make the decisions they did, in complete contradiction of the science, IIWII. You can assign a different excuse for it than I do, but the end result is identical.

You don’t let tens of thousands of students get exposed to rapid transmission as guinea pigs, try to insulate a couple hundred differently, and say it’s about health and safety. It’s pitifully laughable. Thankfully, they’ve fessed up.

You are saying based off of your personal belief of the science involved that they couldn't have possibly made any decisions based off of the health of student athletes. Im not sure why you can't accept that maybe they saw completely different data that caused enough concern that they felt the need to postpone things. Not everything is rooted in extreme ignorance or malicious intent.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

You are saying based off of your personal belief of the science involved that they couldn't have possibly made any decisions based off of the health of student athletes. Im not sure why you can't accept that maybe they saw completely different data that caused enough concern that they felt the need to postpone things. Not everything is rooted in extreme ignorance or malicious intent.

I think you’re reading more into it than what I’m saying. I absolutely accept they saw completely different data. That’s what I’ve been saying. And it’s wrong data. The real data has not changed. That’s why around the world and across our country everybody else was doing something different than that small handful of people. It’s also why they never produced any information to support their original decision, and it’s also why they haven’t produced any explanation for why they’ve changed their mind.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Ok, so the decisions to postpone seasons had nothing to do with the health and well being of the student athletes. What was it about then?

#1 item dominating every other item including player safety was CYA politics. They were posturing to avoid the appearance of not caring and like most people in their positions they want to avoid controversy and culpability. There was also some “national politics” in here which weighed heavily but that’s for another thread.

#2 item was avoiding risk exposure, ie lawsuits. Unfortunately and most people
do not want to hear this but a large percentage of decisions are based on risk/reward. How much money can I make vs how much could I lose? Not just direct transactional stuff, but market share, brand strength ie goodwill, etc.

#3 is player safety. In this instance this was paraded around in #2 also as a facade to deflect any criticism for any poor decision making.

There’s never anything that’s zero risk. Some people handle risk better than others. Some concoct any rationale to do or not do something and blame it on risk. Leaders get paid to make the best decision they can with the information they have. What we’ve all seen is good leadership vs bad leadership. It’s unusual the ACC is in the positive here because we’re used to them being all F’d up like the Big 10 and PAC whatever.

 

[orientalnc]

#1 item dominating every other item including player safety was CYA politics. They were posturing to avoid the appearance of not caring and like most people in their positions they want to avoid controversy and culpability. There was also some “national politics” in here which weighed heavily but that’s for another thread.

#2 item was avoiding risk exposure, ie lawsuits. Unfortunately and most people
do not want to hear this but a large percentage of decisions are based on risk/reward. How much money can I make vs how much could I lose? Not just direct transactional stuff, but market share, brand strength ie goodwill, etc.

#3 is player safety. In this instance this was paraded around in #2 also as a facade to deflect any criticism for any poor decision making.

There’s never anything that’s zero risk. Some people handle risk better than others. Some concoct any rationale to do or not do something and blame it on risk. Leaders get paid to make the best decision they can with the information they have. What we’ve all seen is good leadership vs bad leadership. It’s unusual the ACC is in the positive here because we’re used to them being all F’d up like the Big 10 and PAC whatever.

There is nothing wrong with establishing a policy that protects the organization while also protecting the athletes. This was not an either/or situation.

 

[LibertyTurns]

There is nothing wrong with establishing a policy that protects the organization while also protecting the athletes. This was not an either/or situation.

Then why didn’t they do that? They went and hid hoping everyone else would fold. They ended up looking like the stooges they are.

 

[ncjacket79]

Our local hospitals here peaked in July with hundreds of COVID patients in the hospital. Those numbers are now down 90%+. And that’s across all ages. Like everyone else, we’ve never had younger patients in the hospital. We do have the occasional outlier, such as a pediatric death in a patient with a highly compromised immune system (we had a kid in the later stages of fighting cancer).

This is also why Dr Fauci continues to look stupid when he argues about herd immunity thresholds. Various mathematicians have estimated herd immunity with COVID to be about half of the traditional understandings, due to the nature of how many older people are isolating and not part of society as they usually are, and how younger people are all but immune to it in the first place. He is an obstinate negative old man. I guess when you make over $500,000 per year for decades you develop a God complex.

That’s not how you calculate herd immunity though. Taking people out of the equation is just playing with numbers. We will reach herd immunity after we have vaccines and after enough people take it, just like every other disease ever.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

That’s not how you calculate herd immunity though. Taking people out of the equation is just playing with numbers. We will reach herd immunity after we have vaccines and after enough people take it, just like every other disease ever.

If a particular virus hits different age groups and people differently than another virus, you would have different hers immunity thresholds per virus. That’s not playing with the numbers, that’s getting the science as accurate as possible. Covid has almost the mirror opposite age demographic mortality as the flu does.

Herd immunity threshold could be lower according to new study

Herd immunity to Covid-19 could be achieved with less people being infected than previously estimated according to new research.

www.eurekalert.org