Teacher Salaries

[TheSilasSonRising]

I remember a profile of CMR and CCG that the AJC did once. When asked what each would do if they had to choose another career, CCG said "teacher", I believe. CMR said something like selling real estate. Although I don't have a lot of animosity toward CMR, I thought it was telling that one man chose a profession that requires selfless service and unenviable pay, while the other chose basically salesman.

I always liked CCG, thought he was a good man but a terribly conservative offensive coach, and hated to see him get fired, though my first choice for his replacement had always been CPJ. I thought I was dreaming when they announced the hire.

That is an interesting take for sure.

But one might also say that one would choose a taxpayer funded job where often the most egregious behavior is protected by unions and government agreements. The other might be described as someone willing to risk what they have to take advantage of our beautiful Capitalist system. And taking home a paycheck based only on their willingness to work hard without any guarantees. Men like Larry Morris and Dewberry.

 

[Skeptic]

That is an interesting take for sure.

But one might also say that one would choose a taxpayer funded job where often the most egregious behavior is protected by unions and government agreements. The other might be described as someone willing to risk what they have to take advantage of our beautiful Capitalist system. And taking home a paycheck based only on their willingness to work hard without any guarantees. Men like Larry Morris and Dewberry.

Put the soapbox away and come down a bit.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

Put the soapbox away and come down a bit.

“come down a bit”. WTH?

I did not bring the box out.

 

[TechTravis]

That is an interesting take for sure.

But one might also say that one would choose a taxpayer funded job where often the most egregious behavior is protected by unions and government agreements. The other might be described as someone willing to risk what they have to take advantage of our beautiful Capitalist system. And taking home a paycheck based only on their willingness to work hard without any guarantees. Men like Larry Morris and Dewberry.

Ayn Rand died bitter and alone. Chan Gailey won't. I never had a problem with Gailey the man. His inability to adjust his mindset to the college game frustrated me, but I thought he handled his tenure here with dignity and class.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

That is an interesting take for sure.

But one might also say that one would choose a taxpayer funded job where often the most egregious behavior is protected by unions and government agreements. The other might be described as someone willing to risk what they have to take advantage of our beautiful Capitalist system. And taking home a paycheck based only on their willingness to work hard without any guarantees. Men like Larry Morris and Dewberry.

Lol. Come teach in my classroom and coach on my court for a week. For my paycheck. We'll see if you still see public school educators in the same light. Actually, while you're at it, STFU

 

[forensicbuzz]

Lol. Come teach in my classroom and coach on my court for a week. For my paycheck. We'll see if you still see public school educators in the same light. Actually, while you're at it, STFU

I think the average teacher's salary at my kids' high school is in the six figures (average). And it's a public school.

 

[pbrown520]

I think the average teacher's salary at my kids' high school is in the six figures (average). And it's a public school.

You must live somewhere other than Georgia, Alabama or Arizona. The only ones making that kind of money in those states are the administration. I know career teachers (30+ years) with masters degrees who make far less than $100k.

 

[Skeptic]

I think the average teacher's salary at my kids' high school is in the six figures (average). And it's a public school.

My second son is a professor at an excellent public college and doesn't make six figures. Those numbers are reserved for the administrators who, well, administrate something. You must live in a fabulously wealthy school district, because in NC's wealthiest districts the average is about $48,000 with probably 10 years -- 10 years -- experience, and the mean is closer to $42,000. And our wonderful anti-public education legislature wants to cut it.

In high tax Connecticut where my oldest lives the median is about $63,000.

But more probably, you are just wrong. Check it out again, or maybe tell us what state and district we are talking about ... I know some NC teachers who will want to move there. The ones who did not flee to Texas when Houston started poaching them with $10,000 increases after the first round of budget cuts.

And not to suck up to somebody else on the board, but whatever they are paid, it ain't enough. Seriously. We historically devalue teachers at every level, and then whine about education. (And if you live in Georgia, a word of advice: move.)

 

[SidewalkJacket]

I think the average teacher's salary at my kids' high school is in the six figures (average). And it's a public school.

Brother, I have a masters degree, 13 years experience, work 80+ hours per week between teaching and coaching, and make ~$50k.

And you know what, I'd do it for less, if I had to. But please tell me where your son goes to school.

 

[JacketFromUGA]

That is an interesting take for sure.

But one might also say that one would choose a taxpayer funded job where often the most egregious behavior is protected by unions and government agreements. The other might be described as someone willing to risk what they have to take advantage of our beautiful Capitalist system. And taking home a paycheck based only on their willingness to work hard without any guarantees. Men like Larry Morris and Dewberry.

There are no teachers unions in Georgia anyway.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

There are no teachers unions in Georgia anyway.

There are. But the image of big bad teachers unions protecting worthless educators from any sort of accountability is ridiculous anyway, at least in GA. I joined so I wouldn't have to bankrupt myself with legal fees when some kid who is failing my class gets in a fight, and in order to prevent him from getting his nose broken by another kid, I pull him away, then his mom decides to accuse me of assaulting him and drags me into court (which you can also do in GA, regardless of having any evidence; it's called a warrant hearing). And this kind of stuff happens all the time.

 

[JacketFromUGA]

There are. But the image of big bad teachers unions protecting worthless educators from any sort of accountability is ridiculous anyway, at least in GA. I joined so I wouldn't have to bankrupt myself with legal fees when some kid who is failing my class gets in a fight, and in order to prevent him from getting his nose broken by another kid, I pull him away, then his mom decides to accuse me of assaulting him and drags me into court (which you can also do in GA, regardless of having any evidence; it's called a warrant hearing). And this kind of stuff happens all the time.

I’m also an educator man. GEA and PAGE are not unions in the way that most people call unions. They mainly exist for Tort Liability and are legally not allowed to collectively bargain.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

I’m also an educator man. GEA and PAGE are not unions in the way that most people call unions. They mainly exist for Tort Liability and are legally not allowed to collectively bargain.

Yep. But you can't tell some folks that.

 

[Skeptic]

Brother, I have a masters degree, 13 years experience, work 80+ hours per week between teaching and coaching, and make ~$50k.

And you know what, I'd do it for less, if I had to. But please tell me where your son goes to school.

I was once on a panel discussion about such things and asked the question generally of the audience: other than your immediate family, who has been the biggest influence in your life? Sometimes not exclusively so but prominent in the discussion came back one or more teachers. I had two. One was a coach and later principal. the other a classroom teacher who not only accepted dissent but encouraged it as long as you could make your case and stand your ground. I've never forgotten her because we probably had different viewpoints on major issues from politics to race. She was a throwback in some of those areas -- South Georgia was not then nor now particularly tolerant -- but geez, one did not have to agree with her to be heard in her classroom. Wonderful teacher, and not just from the book.

 

[4shotB]

Lol. Come teach in my classroom and coach on my court for a week. For my paycheck. We'll see if you still see public school educators in the same light. Actually, while you're at it, STFU

I'll weigh in on this. I became a teacher after 25+ years utilizing my GT education in the private (manufacturing) sector. I have taught at two schools on either end of the socioeconomic curve. The public perception of teachers is skewed. The reality that I have seen (remember, sample size is 2) is the opposite.I have worked closely with about 80+ faculty members. Most are drawn to the profession for the right reasons. I would be comfortable with my children being in their classrooms. I have seen only 2 that were going through the motions - i.e. the stereotypical teacher who shows movies, hands out busy work activities, etc. In other words, the ratio of competent to incompetent individuals is no worse, and maybe even lower, than it is for accountants, engineers and salespeople.
When talking about inefficiencies within the educational system one needs to looks at the "administration". I find it telling that educations chooses this term (administrator) rather than leader. Because that is what happens - the prinicipal sees his or her job as maintenance of the status quo rather than a change agent. This, imo, is a function of being a typical government employee, I am shocked and appalled that the narrative for "fixing education" is directed at the teachers rather than at the (lack of) leadership. Organizations (of any type) go bad from the top down, not from the middle. (Again, this is a broad stroke - I have had 3 different principals - 2 were really good. However, 1 was just coasting along and riding things out until retirement. This individual was in the private sector because he would not have lasted 1 year in the private sector in any type of leadership capacity).

 

[Skeptic]

Brother, I have a masters degree, 13 years experience, work 80+ hours per week between teaching and coaching, and make ~$50k.

And you know what, I'd do it for less, if I had to. But please tell me where your son goes to school.

To further make my case of an anti-education bias, at least from one political party, note the latest bill -- I am not being political here -- takes away the $250 tax credit teachers get for buying classroom materials the taxpayer is too cheap to provide -- $250 mind you -- and those grants-in-kind for advanced degrees for some of the brightest would now be taxed as ordinary income. So now our students will come out of school with some hefty student loans and in addition, any teaching help they get for helping or actually teaching a course as a graduate assistant they will now owe federal income taxes on. And don't even get me started on "charter" schools, one of the great public funding thefts of our generation: bleed money from public schools to make overnight millionaires of those who can game the system.

 

[Skeptic]

I'll weigh in on this. I became a teacher after 25+ years utilizing my GT education in the private (manufacturing) sector. I have taught at two schools on either end of the socioeconomic curve. The public perception of teachers is skewed. The reality that I have seen (remember, sample size is 2) is the opposite.I have worked closely with about 80+ faculty members. Most are drawn to the profession for the right reasons. I would be comfortable with my children being in their classrooms. I have seen only 2 that were going through the motions - i.e. the stereotypical teacher who shows movies, hands out busy work activities, etc. In other words, the ratio of competent to incompetent individuals is no worse, and maybe even lower, than it is for accountants, engineers and salespeople.
When talking about inefficiencies within the educational system one needs to looks at the "administration". I find it telling that educations chooses this term (administrator) rather than leader. Because that is what happens - the prinicipal sees his or her job as maintenance of the status quo rather than a change agent. This, imo, is a function of being a typical government employee, I am shocked and appalled that the narrative for "fixing education" is directed at the teachers rather than at the (lack of) leadership. Organizations (of any type) go bad from the top down, not from the middle. (Again, this is a broad stroke - I have had 3 different principals - 2 were really good. However, 1 was just coasting along and riding things out until retirement. This individual was in the private sector because he would not have lasted 1 year in the private sector in any type of leadership capacity).

And yet a university that demands a teaching position be paid for in student enrollment in the class adds "administrators" willy-nilly. And hardly anybody knows exactly what they are responsible for. But yes, teachers are easy targets as the public face.

 

[forensicbuzz]

This is for @SidewalkJacket @pbrown520 and @Skeptic.

My kids go to New Trier Township High School, north of Chicago. This is an open enrollment school for the district. Fun Fact: this is the same HS Ken Segiura went to. The superintendent earns almost $370k, but is retiring this year. Yes, this is a unique school district in an affluent community. The communities that feed NTHS put education above much else. They spend over $15k per student on instructional costs, and over $25k/student on institutional costs.

https://www.illinoisreportcard.com/...&source2=teachersalary&Districtid=05016203017

Individual salaries can be found here:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ompensation_Report/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The average salary is about $118k, after other benefits are added. The other benefits are compensation for additional roles such as Advisory Chairs (think homeroom teachers on steroids) and coaching positions.

 

[smathis30]

This is for @SidewalkJacket @pbrown520 and @Skeptic.

My kids go to New Trier Township High School, north of Chicago. This is an open enrollment school for the district. Fun Fact: this is the same HS Ken Segiura went to. The superintendent earns almost $370k, but is retiring this year. Yes, this is a unique school district in an affluent community. The communities that feed NTHS put education above much else. They spend over $15k per student on instructional costs, and over $25k/student on institutional costs.

https://www.illinoisreportcard.com/...&source2=teachersalary&Districtid=05016203017

Individual salaries can be found here:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ompensation_Report/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The average salary is about $118k, after other benefits are added. The other benefits are compensation for additional roles such as Advisory Chairs (think homeroom teachers on steroids) and coaching positions.

As someone whose parents used to teach in Chicago, it isn't the case across the board. New Trier is in one of the wealthiest areas on Chicagoland. The average home value there is something like 2 million dollars. Standard of living alone distorts that. When applying for jobs there, my mother was one of 1,400 people applying for a single vacancy. In North Carolina, after they moved, she had 5 offers simply because she had a masters degree. And that was before my family even moved there. The district I went to High School in, in west chicago, always had a report every year on the highest payed teachers in the district. My english teacher was the #1 one year, as a high school cross country coach and was making $120,000/year. I know that in North Carolina, I outearned my mother's teaching salary one year with what i made at an internship, so its standard of living thats pushing that. New Trier is also gigantic IIRC so there getting payed to babysit more there than at other schools.

 

[Skeptic]

This is for @SidewalkJacket @pbrown520 and @Skeptic.

My kids go to New Trier Township High School, north of Chicago. This is an open enrollment school for the district. Fun Fact: this is the same HS Ken Segiura went to. The superintendent earns almost $370k, but is retiring this year. Yes, this is a unique school district in an affluent community. The communities that feed NTHS put education above much else. They spend over $15k per student on instructional costs, and over $25k/student on institutional costs.

https://www.illinoisreportcard.com/...&source2=teachersalary&Districtid=05016203017

Individual salaries can be found here:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ompensation_Report/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The average salary is about $118k, after other benefits are added. The other benefits are compensation for additional roles such as Advisory Chairs (think homeroom teachers on steroids) and coaching positions.

Your kids are lucky. But now the $64 question: in response to critics who will say, and do say, that more money doesn't buy better teaching, do you agree or disagree? (I know. it's a loaded question. Because if it didn't your district would be dumb to pay that kind of money. But for those who would merely like to see teachers earn a living wage and improve their lot as they improve, give us your impression.)