Teacher Salaries

[4shotB]

Your kids are lucky. But now the $64 question: in response to critics who will say, and do say, that more money doesn't buy better teaching, do you agree or disagree? (I know. it's a loaded question. Because if it didn't your district would be dumb to pay that kind of money. But for those who would merely like to see teachers earn a living wage and improve their lot as they improve, give us your impression.)

IMO, more money will attract the type of candidates who are now choosing to go into the sciences, engineering or business school. Over time, that will improve the talent pool. WTBS, I was amazed when I started teaching at how little content knowledge affects one's effectiveness. Of course, you have to know your subject matter (and the kids figure out really quick who does and who doesn't) but I would say that content knowledge is only 10-20% of the equation. I'm not sure what you can do to teach the other 80 - 90%. But we all saw it at GT - brilliant professors who were not really good in the classroom.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Your kids are lucky. But now the $64 question: in response to critics who will say, and do say, that more money doesn't buy better teaching, do you agree or disagree? (I know. it's a loaded question. Because if it didn't your district would be dumb to pay that kind of money. But for those who would merely like to see teachers earn a living wage and improve their lot as they improve, give us your impression.)

I was going to comment on this in my previous post, but it was already long enough. Really, this whole derailing of this thread could be moved to a different forum, but whatever.

I hate the entire concept of a living wage for teachers. Teachers should be venerated. We should want the very best minds teaching our children, so pay them enough to attract them. I went to HS in a relatively affluent town in Connecticut. In a class of 330, about 20% went to Ivy League schools or equivalents. 98% of my graduating class started college the next fall. It was mostly the 3rd quartile kids that were going into Education.

I think that there are great teachers everywhere. I think that many teachers follow that path because they feel called to it, whether they started in Education or gravitated towards it. Now, that being said, I think with the higher salaries, there is more competition for each available position, and there is significantly more scrutiny on performance, so the chances of having a subpar teacher is less.

I have always felt that if we want the brightest minds teaching our kids, then we need to pay them equivalently to what they'd be able to make in the private sector. I think NTHS approaches this as much as I've seen anywhere. It's hard to differentiate the test scores at NT based on socioeconomics or educational opportunity, but NT is ranked pretty highly nationally in comparison to other open enrollment campuses.

NTHS has about 4,000 students on two campuses. There's a freshman-only campus, and a 10-12 grade campus. The resources these kids have is incredible. I would equate NTHS to a community college, and the size can be overwhelming for some kids. Because there are so many kids it can be hard to make certain sports teams or academic teams or other activities. However, there are more club activities and intramural opportunities that we had at Tech when I was there. I think NTHS does a fantastic job of not losing kids in the cracks. This school has always been on the cutting edge of teaching techniques, and were one of the first schools to implement SEL (Social and Emotional Learning) into their curriculum.

Having said all this, we moved to Chicagoland with my oldest was going into 8th grade. We didn't intend to be in this school district, but when I changed jobs in 2014 and started working in the western suburbs, I decided to commute over an hour each way every day to keep my kids in this district. I don't know if it will make a difference, but who doesn't want to give their kids every opportunity for success. @Skeptic I wouldn't call it luck; it was a conscious decision to live a more modest life to provide more opportunity for our children's education.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

IMO, more money will attract the type of candidates who are now choosing to go into the sciences, engineering or business school. Over time, that will improve the talent pool. WTBS, I was amazed when I started teaching at how little content knowledge affects one's effectiveness. Of course, you have to know your subject matter (and the kids figure out really quick who does and who doesn't) but I would say that content knowledge is only 10-20% of the equation. I'm not sure what you can do to teach the other 80 - 90%. But we all saw it at GT - brilliant professors who were not really good in the classroom.

Completely agree. You either have it, or you don't. Unfortunately, this

This is for @SidewalkJacket @pbrown520 and @Skeptic.

My kids go to New Trier Township High School, north of Chicago. This is an open enrollment school for the district. Fun Fact: this is the same HS Ken Segiura went to. The superintendent earns almost $370k, but is retiring this year. Yes, this is a unique school district in an affluent community. The communities that feed NTHS put education above much else. They spend over $15k per student on instructional costs, and over $25k/student on institutional costs.

https://www.illinoisreportcard.com/...&source2=teachersalary&Districtid=05016203017

Individual salaries can be found here:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ompensation_Report/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The average salary is about $118k, after other benefits are added. The other benefits are compensation for additional roles such as Advisory Chairs (think homeroom teachers on steroids) and coaching positions.

The issue I took with your post is this: you used an outlier statistic to apparently back up the arrogant and misinformed post of someone taking shots at public school teachers. I'm glad the teachers in your ritzy district get compensated well. I wonder if the average salary you listed includes administrators and superintendents. If so, it'll be pretty skewed.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Completely agree. You either have it, or you don't. Unfortunately, this


The issue I took with your post is this: you used an outlier statistic to apparently back up the arrogant and misinformed post of someone taking shots at public school teachers. I'm glad the teachers in your ritzy district get compensated well. I wonder if the average salary you listed includes administrators and superintendents. If so, it'll be pretty skewed.

Go back and look at the links I included. You can see every single teacher's salary if you care to. I think the starting salaries for full-time teachers is comparable to top salaries at most other schools.

BTW, I wasn't backing up anyone's post. I was just commenting that there are some school districts that get it right in my opinion. From the remainder of my posts, I think you see where I fall regarding public school teachers.

 

[knoxjacket]

I think the definition of what a teacher is needs to change. I would favor a much more distributed model with online lessons being delivered by the best of the best instructors and teachers serving more of a tutor role.

I also believe the system of having year-based grade levels should be changed to a series of certifications by subject. I.E. a student can move on to Geometry as soon as they are certified in Algebra I. This would allow all students to operate at their own pace.

The current classroom and school setup is so outdated. It reflects a time when knowledge wasn’t so readily available.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

Go back and look at the links I included. You can see every single teacher's salary if you care to. I think the starting salaries for full-time teachers is comparable to top salaries at most other schools.

BTW, I wasn't backing up anyone's post. I was just commenting that there are some school districts that get it right in my opinion. From the remainder of my posts, I think you see where I fall regarding public school teachers.

I can tell. I just got a little fired up on this one and trying to post and respond while totally distracted.

 

[Skeptic]

...
Having said all this, we moved to Chicagoland with my oldest was going into 8th grade. We didn't intend to be in this school district, but when I changed jobs in 2014 and started working in the western suburbs, I decided to commute over an hour each way every day to keep my kids in this district. I don't know if it will make a difference, but who doesn't want to give their kids every opportunity for success. @Skeptic I wouldn't call it luck; it was a conscious decision to live a more modest life to provide more opportunity for our children's education.

When I used the word I meant it in the sense that a lot of people, way too many people, don't have that opportunity or chance. Not that you just happened into it. It's commendable and actually I have seen it often, and if it means anything -- it might not -- almost always from college educated parents, many of whom had parents who also went to college. My saddest experience was trying to tutor a 12-year-old in reading who lived in a home with no books, magazines, newspapers or advertising material. Just TV. Nothing else. I confess to having no luck with him. I can't imagine being a teacher and dealing with that daily.

 

[pbrown520]

This is for @SidewalkJacket @pbrown520 and @Skeptic.

My kids go to New Trier Township High School, north of Chicago. This is an open enrollment school for the district. Fun Fact: this is the same HS Ken Segiura went to. The superintendent earns almost $370k, but is retiring this year. Yes, this is a unique school district in an affluent community. The communities that feed NTHS put education above much else. They spend over $15k per student on instructional costs, and over $25k/student on institutional costs.

https://www.illinoisreportcard.com/...&source2=teachersalary&Districtid=05016203017

Individual salaries can be found here:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ompensation_Report/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The average salary is about $118k, after other benefits are added. The other benefits are compensation for additional roles such as Advisory Chairs (think homeroom teachers on steroids) and coaching positions.

That is unbelievable. The cost of real estate must be atrocious in this area. I do believe in paying teachers much more money than they currently make in the vast majority of places. Don't think these numbers make sense for most areas, but teachers should definitely be paid much more.

 

[MikeJackets1967]

That is unbelievable. The cost of real estate must be atrocious in this area. I do believe in paying teachers much more money than they currently make in the vast majority of places. Don't think these numbers make sense for most areas, but teachers should definitely be paid much more.

I'd be very nervous to live in Chicago with the gangs and crime

 

[forensicbuzz]

That is unbelievable. The cost of real estate must be atrocious in this area. I do believe in paying teachers much more money than they currently make in the vast majority of places. Don't think these numbers make sense for most areas, but teachers should definitely be paid much more.

yep. My mortgage is 3.5X what it was in Atlanta for the same house. about $1500 of that goes to property taxes.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I'd be very nervous to live in Chicago with the gangs and crime

This is TIC, right?

You do know there's as much gang activity in Atlanta as there is in Chicago, right? It's isolated in Chicago the same way it's isolated in Atlanta. That would be like saying you'd be nervous to live in Vinings or Morningside because of the gang violence and crime in Atlanta. No, more like being nervous living in John's Creek.

 

[MikeJackets1967]

This is TIC, right?

You do know there's as much gang activity in Atlanta as there is in Chicago, right? It's isolated in Chicago the same way it's isolated in Atlanta. That would be like saying you'd be nervous to live in Vinings or Morningside because of the gang violence and crime in Atlanta. No, more like being nervous living in John's Creek.

Wow I didn't know that Thanks for the info

 

[forensicbuzz]

Wow I didn't know that Thanks for the info

i still can't tell if that was TIC and this is sarcasm.

 

[MikeJackets1967]

i still can't tell if that was TIC and this is sarcasm.

A lot of stuff I had read said it was very dangeroua to just be in Chicago. It's nice to hear your point of view

 

[GTHomer]

I was going to comment on this in my previous post, but it was already long enough. Really, this whole derailing of this thread could be moved to a different forum, but whatever.

I hate the entire concept of a living wage for teachers. Teachers should be venerated. We should want the very best minds teaching our children, so pay them enough to attract them. I went to HS in a relatively affluent town in Connecticut. In a class of 330, about 20% went to Ivy League schools or equivalents. 98% of my graduating class started college the next fall. It was mostly the 3rd quartile kids that were going into Education.

I think that there are great teachers everywhere. I think that many teachers follow that path because they feel called to it, whether they started in Education or gravitated towards it. Now, that being said, I think with the higher salaries, there is more competition for each available position, and there is significantly more scrutiny on performance, so the chances of having a subpar teacher is less.

I have always felt that if we want the brightest minds teaching our kids, then we need to pay them equivalently to what they'd be able to make in the private sector. I think NTHS approaches this as much as I've seen anywhere. It's hard to differentiate the test scores at NT based on socioeconomics or educational opportunity, but NT is ranked pretty highly nationally in comparison to other open enrollment campuses.

NTHS has about 4,000 students on two campuses. There's a freshman-only campus, and a 10-12 grade campus. The resources these kids have is incredible. I would equate NTHS to a community college, and the size can be overwhelming for some kids. Because there are so many kids it can be hard to make certain sports teams or academic teams or other activities. However, there are more club activities and intramural opportunities that we had at Tech when I was there. I think NTHS does a fantastic job of not losing kids in the cracks. This school has always been on the cutting edge of teaching techniques, and were one of the first schools to implement SEL (Social and Emotional Learning) into their curriculum.

Having said all this, we moved to Chicagoland with my oldest was going into 8th grade. We didn't intend to be in this school district, but when I changed jobs in 2014 and started working in the western suburbs, I decided to commute over an hour each way every day to keep my kids in this district. I don't know if it will make a difference, but who doesn't want to give their kids every opportunity for success. @Skeptic I wouldn't call it luck; it was a conscious decision to live a more modest life to provide more opportunity for our children's education.

I agree, this is another topic that is worthy of a separate thread. As the product of two teachers and the spouse of one, I appreciate those on this blog that are in that profession. Yes, our first teachers are our parents however when we work collaboratively with them, teachers can be the spark to ignite long term learning for everyone in our society.

 

[awbuzz]

There are no teachers unions in Georgia anyway.

Many assume that all public school teachers are in a "traditional" union. I know Cobb County teachers are not "in the union". However too many that are get protected from being fired / let go due to tenure. The few "bad apples" crap it up for the good teachers.

 

[awbuzz]

To further make my case of an anti-education bias, at least from one political party, note the latest bill -- I am not being political here -- takes away the $250 tax credit teachers get for buying classroom materials the taxpayer is too cheap to provide -- $250 mind you -- and those grants-in-kind for advanced degrees for some of the brightest would now be taxed as ordinary income. So now our students will come out of school with some hefty student loans and in addition, any teaching help they get for helping or actually teaching a course as a graduate assistant they will now owe federal income taxes on. And don't even get me started on "charter" schools, one of the great public funding thefts of our generation: bleed money from public schools to make overnight millionaires of those who can game the system.

Wish we could be back as a tax credit ALL of the various supplies and learning tools my wife has purchased and used over the last decade. $250 a year MIGHT cover it on average , but only because she is frugal and we have "fixed" many that wear out, etc.

 

[awbuzz]

When I used the word I meant it in the sense that a lot of people, way too many people, don't have that opportunity or chance. Not that you just happened into it. It's commendable and actually I have seen it often, and if it means anything -- it might not -- almost always from college educated parents, many of whom had parents who also went to college. My saddest experience was trying to tutor a 12-year-old in reading who lived in a home with no books, magazines, newspapers or advertising material. Just TV. Nothing else. I confess to having no luck with him. I can't imagine being a teacher and dealing with that daily.

My wife teaches at a Title 1 school. BIG difference on what the kids there have had exposure to at home compared to those in middle to upper middle income areas for sure.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

My wife teaches at a Title 1 school. BIG difference on what the kids there have had exposure to at home compared to those in middle to upper middle income areas for sure.

Yep. I look at what we deal with and what control we have...and then compare that to say a single mom working 2 jobs to make ends meet and doesn't have time or energy to chase the kids around. Tough stuff. I mean even just basic stuff like what do you do when a kid is sick or school starts late/ends early due to weather...

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

This is TIC, right?

You do know there's as much gang activity in Atlanta as there is in Chicago, right? It's isolated in Chicago the same way it's isolated in Atlanta. That would be like saying you'd be nervous to live in Vinings or Morningside because of the gang violence and crime in Atlanta. No, more like being nervous living in John's Creek.

The murder rate is quite a bit higher in Chitown.