Talent Questions

Supersizethatorder-mutt

Supersizethatorder-mutt

Banned
Messages
13,443
Location
Augusta, GA
knoxjacket said:
The implication is certainly that there is less than the majority of Tech teams in the past 30 years. No one seems willing to dispute that. They’re too busy white knighting because they know it’s true.
Click to expand...
Plenty of talent on offense. Indicators of decent talent on defense, but nobody has yet been able to coach them up the way Johnson has done on offense.
 
chewybaka

chewybaka

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
905
sidewalkGTfan said:
I don’t get the “we have no talent” argument. We are talented enough to play dah U down to the wire last year. We were talented enough to be in position to win 3-4 more games last year as well as today. We were talented enough to beat VT 3 of the last 4 years.

Just blaming everything on “no talent” is shortsighted IMO.
Click to expand...
I missed the game due to family obligations, but lack of talent does not equate with the ability toto produce over 600 yards of offense. I am in Tampa often and my USF friends/ fans described our offense as "unstoppable" as compared to anyone they have played... including UCF. The defense is newly installed, we should remain calm and let this play out...
 

Boaty1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,104
knoxjacket said:
1. How far back do you have to go in Georgia Tech history to find a team with less talent than the current iteration?

2. How far back to find a pre-CPJ Georgia Tech team with less talent?
Click to expand...

Great post Knox. I was thinking about just this thing this morning. I was going back over the last 20 years and thinking about our rosters and how until recently we always had multiple players on the field that would eventually play in the pros.

In the late 90’s we were blessed with a wealth of talent at the skill positions. Hamilton at qb to go with receivers like White, Campbell and Rogers. Those offenses could score on anyone and with talent like that out wide it’s easy to understand why.

The early 2000’s brought in players like Daryl Smith, Key Fox, Joe Burns and Greg Gathers. They were followed by Calvin Johnson, Phillip Wheeler, Tashard Choice, Dawna Landry, James Butler.

Later in the decade we had a DL alone that had Michael Johnson, Vance Walker, and Derrick Morgan. On the offensive side we had Dwyer and Thomas.

This isn’t meant to be a slight to recent players but the fact since Johnson arrived we have seen a steady decline in guys moving onto the next level. It either has to be a recruiting deficiency or a development issue. I would lean toward recruiting. It’s pretty clear that our overall team talent has declined since Johnson arrived. I used to believe he could overcome the deficiency with scheme but I no longer believe that. It’s time for a change.
 

JorgeJonas

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,147
Boaty1 said:
Great post Knox. I was thinking about just this thing this morning. I was going back over the last 20 years and thinking about our rosters and how until recently we always had multiple players on the field that would eventually play in the pros.

In the late 90’s we were blessed with a wealth of talent at the skill positions. Hamilton at qb to go with receivers like White, Campbell and Rogers. Those offenses could score on anyone and with talent like that out wide it’s easy to understand why.

The early 2000’s brought in players like Daryl Smith, Key Fox, Joe Burns and Greg Gathers. They were followed by Calvin Johnson, Phillip Wheeler, Tashard Choice, Dawna Landry, James Butler.

Later in the decade we had a DL alone that had Michael Johnson, Vance Walker, and Derrick Morgan. On the offensive side we had Dwyer and Thomas.

This isn’t meant to be a slight to recent players but the fact since Johnson arrived we have seen a steady decline in guys moving onto the next level. It either has to be a recruiting deficiency or a development issue. I would lean toward recruiting. It’s pretty clear that our overall team talent has declined since Johnson arrived. I used to believe he could overcome the deficiency with scheme but I no longer believe that. It’s time for a change.
Click to expand...
Do you have any data to support this, or are we only discussing feelings?
 
Whiskey_Clear

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
sidewalkGTfan said:
I don’t get the “we have no talent” argument. We are talented enough to play dah U down to the wire last year. We were talented enough to be in position to win 3-4 more games last year as well as today. We were talented enough to beat VT 3 of the last 4 years.

Just blaming everything on “no talent” is shortsighted IMO.
Click to expand...

Good points and true. But we don’t have enough talent to do what many fans think we should be able to do. Which is play in Charlotte every year, beat Clemson and uga at least half the time, and never lose to even a good AAC type team like USF.
 
knoxjacket

knoxjacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
855
Whiskey_Clear said:
1. Last year
2. Maybe 2007
Click to expand...

2007? Lol.

Travis Bell, Durant Brooks, Tashard Choice, Andrew Gardner, Vance Walker, Kevin Tuminello, Philip Wheeler, Josh Nesbitt, Morgan Burnett, Demaryous Thomas, Daryl Richard, Darrell Robertson, Derrick Morgan, Roddy Jones, Sedric Griffin, Mario Butler, Robert Hall, Gary Guyton

That’s at top 5 roster of the past thirty years. With competent coaching and not a disaster at QB that team should’ve been top 10.

Outside of QB that team was better at every position than this one.
 

Boaty1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,104
Whiskey_Clear said:
Good points and true. But we don’t have enough talent to do what many fans think we should be able to do. Which is play in Charlotte every year, beat Clemson and uga at least half the time, and never lose to even a good AAC type team like USF.
Click to expand...

You are great at making up straw men to argue against. Gets old.

Do you believe we are as talented as we were 20 years ago when we had Hamilton to go with White, Campbell and Rogers at wideout? All of whom had productive NFL careers except arguably Hamilton who was a career backup. But then again he could have easily won the Heisman. Are we as talented as when CPJ took over? He had Johnson, Morgan and Walker on the DL. Morgan Burnett was in the secondary. Dwyer at RB, ThomSas at WR and Gardener at OL. Mid 2000’s we had Calvin Johnson, PhilipWheeler, Key Fox, Daryl Smith etc. Are we as talented as the National Championship team? I’m not worried about UGA or Clemson or any other program for that matter. I just want GT to be as good as we can be and reach our potential. Unfortunately we are in the middle of our worst stretch of ball in a quarter of a century. I just want that to change.

But you keep building your straw man to argue against. We all have to cope someway.
 
cuttysark

cuttysark

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
580
@knoxjacket:

Here's a statistic that might help put your question about talent level into proper perspective:

The following states have NEVER had a contestant win the Miss USA Beauty Pageant: Alaska, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Indiana, Maine, Mississippi, and Montana. Anyone who has spent at least 30 seconds in Georgia and Mississippi can say some of the most gorgeous females on the planet reside in those states. Does that mean there is "talent" level problem that should put those females on DEFCON 1 alert?

If the USF Bulls had beaten us yesterday and broken GT's scoring record of 222 against Cumberland then I would be concerned. Let's see how this season plays out before the sky is falling. My Alma Mater CSU (Colorado State University just got thumped in it's first two games of the season by Hawaii and Colorado. Utter Embarrassments!

Yesterday they played Arkansas (SEC, SEC, SEC) and I was too terrified to actually watch the game. Final score: CSU 34 Arkansas 27! SEC Speed and all!
 

Boaty1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,104
knoxjacket said:
2007? Lol.

Travis Bell, Durant Brooks, Tashard Choice, Andrew Gardner, Vance Walker, Kevin Tuminello, Philip Wheeler, Josh Nesbitt, Morgan Burnett, Demaryous Thomas, Daryl Richard, Darrell Robertson, Derrick Morgan, Roddy Jones, Sedric Griffin, Mario Butler, Robert Hall, Gary Guyton

That’s at top 5 roster of the past thirty years. With competent coaching and not a disaster at QB that team should’ve been top 10.

Outside of QB that team was better at every position than this one.
Click to expand...


JorgeJonas said:
You: Here are my feelings.

Me: Do you have anything to support your feelings?

You: Do my homework for me.[/QUOTE

Get real man. Give me a year that you believe to be less talented than this one and I’ll go back and research it. I know I’m right if you look at pro talent but I’ll humor you to prove my point. It’s really not difficult and honestly I’m shocked anyone would claim this isn’t the least talented team in 20 years but I’ll educate you if you would like. Just point to what confuses you.
Click to expand...
 

JorgeJonas

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,147
knoxjacket said:
How about this:

We haven’t had a first team All-ACC player since 2013. The last year that happened prior to 2013... 1995. Before that? 1987.

Historically low talent level.
Click to expand...
Couple things. First, it’s possible our talent level could remain constant and not have any first team players because other teams have improved. Second, it’s incredible you’d bring that up when we had our best season in a generation during that same period.
 

Boaty1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,104
JorgeJonas said:
Remind me how many wins we had in 2007.[/

Oh I agree Johnson’s system can occasionally produce results beyond the talent represented on the roster and I believe 2014 was a great example of that. I also know that is the chief reason some believe it’s prudent to keep him. But the 2014 team was not as talented as 07. A quick scan of NFL rosters can tell you that. The problem is we are seeing our worst football in a generation right now and the talent appears to be declining.
Click to expand...
 
Top