Starting QB speculation

[Deleted member 2897]

“The question everybody who wants the staff to “stick to one guy” has to ask themselves is: How long do you let a starter struggle before you go to the next guy?”

Well obviously, that answer is – it depends.. . If someone looks clearly frazzled, can’t make their basic throws in Reed’s, and so on, then I think they have a short leash. If they seem to be conducting ourselves well, but things just aren’t working out yet, then I don’t think you make a change.

 

[BCJacket]

The question everybody who wants the staff to “stick to one guy” has to ask themselves is: How long do you let a starter struggle before you go to the next guy?

The problem is: a lot of these folks really wanted the staff to pick and stick to a QB we didn't have on the roster last year. They didn't want the staff to stick with Oliver, Johnson or Graham. They wanted the staff to stick with the QB that could complete 60+% of his passes.

Maybe we have that guy this year... I can promise CGC and CDP aren't going to stick with a guy completing 45% unless he's the best of limited options. (Which was the case last year).

 

[ncjacket79]

“The question everybody who wants the staff to “stick to one guy” has to ask themselves is: How long do you let a starter struggle before you go to the next guy?”

Well obviously, that answer is – it depends.. . If someone looks clearly frazzled, can’t make their basic throws in Reed’s, and so on, then I think they have a short leash. If they seem to be conducting ourselves well, but things just aren’t working out yet, then I don’t think you make a change.

So kind of like last year?

 

[WreckinGT]

I mean... Bo Nix also finished the year 84th in passing efficiency, tied for 68th in passing touchdowns, 65th in passing yards, and finished 101st in PFF’s 2019 QB rankings. For all intents and purposes, he was an extremely average QB and one of the worst in the SEC. He just happened to play for a pretty good team with a pretty stout defense. His backup, Joey Gatewood, put up good numbers in his extremely limited playing time, and will probably be Kentucky’s starter next year. Bo Nix made one throw on a Hail Mary to win the Oregon game, and that throw cemented his job for the remainder of the year.

I wouldn’t really call Bo Nix the poster boy for “sticking with one guy.” If anything, he’s a great example of giving other guys a chance to prove themselves. Just think about most of the great college QBs over the last 5 years. Almost all of them split playing time, or didn’t play at all early in their careers: Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, Tua, Baker Mayfield, Jacob Eason, Jake Fromm (yeah, ik he sucked last year), Kyle Trask, Sam Darnold, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, and on and on. There’s really no reason to expect the guy that takes the first snap against FSU to continue being the guy, and I hope everyone gets the chance to prove themselves as the only guy that deserves to take snaps.

Yeah, most people aren't going to consider nearly a 60% completion rate, 16TD to 6INT, and 7 rushing TD against a schedule that includes 6 teams that finished in the top 10 a poor season for a true freshman. Im pretty sure we would be happy with those numbers from whoever we pick as QB, and we aren't playing nearly as hard of a schedule.

 

[TampaGT]

Who cares who starts, there is only one thing that matters “Just win, baby”

 

[Jacketman99]

If our oline does not improve none of the qb's will come close to 60%.

 

[InsideLB]

Why one might actually WANT a QB rotation in OUR UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE:

1. With young QB room with many guys still developing it is less clear who THE guy is.
2. Due to development the guy who starts games 1-6 may not be the guy who gives you the best chance to win in game 7. But if you start the game 7 guy in game one to try and develop him faster via reps you first run the risk of shattering the kid's confidence or giving him a case of the yips he might not recover from. Second, if your mantra is competition is king and the game 1-6 guy outcompetes the game 7 guy in practice then doesn't that guy deserve to start? If the team sees you are playing a guy who doesn't give you the best chance to win now what message does that send to the team?
3. THE BRIGHT LIGHTS. It's all well and good in practice but some guys can't replicate their practice success in games. And some guys who practice less effectively seem to become 'gamers' when thrown under the lights. How do you know which are which? And when guys are young and developing isn't it possible that their development may obfuscate the picture on whether they are a 'gamer' or wilt under the lights? Maybe once the develop their 'gamerness' is free to emerge.
4. If you pick a guy to be THE guy and stick with him, what do you do if he isnt' successful? Stick with him no matter what? Sometimes guys benefit from watching from the sideline for a series or two. But you have to rotate QBs to do that. And if you stick with the guy no matter what and there is a guy in practice who is doing really well and you don't give him a chance what does the team think? Or maybe a back up gives you the better chance to win a specific game (example: Vad Lee rotated in vs UNC then ridden to the win). Vad wasn't the best QB the rest of the year, but he was the best QB against UNC. Easy to see how an inexperienced but uber-talented QB would give you the best chance vs a simple defensive scheme, and a steadier less talented, but less green QB might give you a better chance vs a more complicated D with exotic coverages and pressures.

We have a young QB room and that matters.

In a mature QB room it is usually clearer who THE guy is. Coaches know more firmly where a kid's ceiling might be, whether he has reached that ceiling, or whether it's likely he will ever reach that ceiling. In an older room typically more guys have experience under the bright lights. Leadership qualities in games and off the field are more established and evident. Development typically occurs at a slower rate in a more mature room because many guys have gone through the steep part of the curve already. So it is much easier to know which guy is the one guy you want to roll with.

Unless it's obvious who the starter should be I am not going to jump all over this staff for rotating guys. Last year people say why didn't we go with Grahm from day 1, he would be that much better now with more reps, etc. Look, I want one guy to be THE guy too. And you have to get from A to B. Crystal balls are 20/20. What if you start Grahm game 1 and his confidence gets shattered, he hadn't earned the start yet so you lose the team, etc. Maybe you get blow outs, Grahm doesn't develop and the team does worse than it did.

Now hopefully one guy is obviously THE GUY and we go forward with him. And I doubt this is the case. I feel we will see some rotation as the guys compete and develop until ultimately we find THE guy. It's a process, and I am ok with it.

Flame away.

 

[MidtownJacket]

Why one might actually WANT a QB rotation in OUR UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE:

1. With young QB room with many guys still developing it is less clear who THE guy is.
2. Due to development the guy who starts games 1-6 may not be the guy who gives you the best chance to win in game 7. But if you start the game 7 guy in game one to try and develop him faster via reps you first run the risk of shattering the kid's confidence or giving him a case of the yips he might not recover from. Second, if your mantra is competition is king and the game 1-6 guy outcompetes the game 7 guy in practice then doesn't that guy deserve to start? If the team sees you are playing a guy who doesn't give you the best chance to win now what message does that send to the team?
3. THE BRIGHT LIGHTS. It's all well and good in practice but some guys can't replicate their practice success in games. And some guys who practice less effectively seem to become 'gamers' when thrown under the lights. How do you know which are which? And when guys are young and developing isn't it possible that their development may obfuscate the picture on whether they are a 'gamer' or wilt under the lights? Maybe once the develop their 'gamerness' is free to emerge.
4. If you pick a guy to be THE guy and stick with him, what do you do if he isnt' successful? Stick with him no matter what? Sometimes guys benefit from watching from the sideline for a series or two. But you have to rotate QBs to do that. And if you stick with the guy no matter what and there is a guy in practice who is doing really well and you don't give him a chance what does the team think? Or maybe a back up gives you the better chance to win a specific game (example: Vad Lee rotated in vs UNC then ridden to the win). Vad wasn't the best QB the rest of the year, but he was the best QB against UNC. Easy to see how an inexperienced but uber-talented QB would give you the best chance vs a simple defensive scheme, and a steadier less talented, but less green QB might give you a better chance vs a more complicated D with exotic coverages and pressures.

We have a young QB room and that matters.

In a mature QB room it is usually clearer who THE guy is. Coaches know more firmly where a kid's ceiling might be, whether he has reached that ceiling, or whether it's likely he will ever reach that ceiling. In an older room typically more guys have experience under the bright lights. Leadership qualities in games and off the field are more established and evident. Development typically occurs at a slower rate in a more mature room because many guys have gone through the steep part of the curve already. So it is much easier to know which guy is the one guy you want to roll with.

Unless it's obvious who the starter should be I am not going to jump all over this staff for rotating guys. Last year people say why didn't we go with Grahm from day 1, he would be that much better now with more reps, etc. Look, I want one guy to be THE guy too. And you have to get from A to B. Crystal balls are 20/20. What if you start Grahm game 1 and his confidence gets shattered, he hadn't earned the start yet so you lose the team, etc. Maybe you get blow outs, Grahm doesn't develop and the team does worse than it did.

Now hopefully one guy is obviously THE GUY and we go forward with him. And I doubt this is the case. I feel we will see some rotation as the guys compete and develop until ultimately we find THE guy. It's a process, and I am ok with it.

Flame away.

I couldn't agree more with your analysis here. We are a Developmental Program which means, be definition, guys get reps. The other thing here I think that is often overlooked is we practice differently as well. We roll guys with different groups all through practice which makes the timing and familiarity stronger up and down the depth chart. No doubt some guys will be tighter with different receivers but that isn't always a bad thing. I know most people are good with down and distance running backs. The same can be, thought not nearly as often, executed anywhere on the field. I think we will see it a lot with TC on the D side too. Dude is going to play anything between Safety and ILB and will see his role change even in series.

That said, I hope we are more scripted in our roll out of guys. Check weekly performance in practice, evaluate that against what we game up to exploit the next team's weaknesses and then go from there. What happened some time last season (to my untrained eye at least) was less situation-responsive and more apparent flailing around (with regard to the QB rotation in the first half of the year).

The final point I want to make is that managing the QBs is going to require clear and consistent communication through execution about play time opportunities and how the staff is deciding who gets game snaps. I wouldn't be shocked to see one, if not two more guys go the TO route if they understand their deficient in a skill the staff requires for QB1, and they still want to make an impact on the team. We have had more guys switching sides of the ball and position groups than I recall every before and a lot has to do with the competition is king mantra. If you play your way above the line, then you WILL get snaps and a chance to earn more time under the lights. Switching roles on this team is not an admission of weakness, but embracing the team first and making a bet on your own athletic ability to make an impact somewhere more valuable to the team.

 

[lv20gt]

The reality is we have very little to base speculation on at this point. We've seen Graham, but we've seen him as a freshmen thrown into the fire at the start of a major transition in schemes. While there are certainly areas that we can take some judgements from, I don't think at this time we've seen enough to say that he couldn't be the guy. Simply put, too many variables that make it hard to distinguish between faults that he has, and faults that were team related. For the others we've seen significantly less than that, and what snippets of information we have are second hand from coaches and don't really provide enough to have informed opinions. At least to me.

With that being said, there has been a sentiment floating around about the need to make a choice. It is true to an extent that if we are to get to where we want to be as a program we will need to have a confirmed #1 QB capable of leading us. There really is no way around that. However, that doesn't mean we need to make that choice today, or even before the season starts. This year will be another transition year. Hopefully better than last year, but I don't think we are just a QB away from being where we want. I would say that making a choice to start the year isn't nearly as important as being able to make the right choice to end the year. So I don't have a good idea on the exact how that it will be done but I expect us to see most, if not all, of the QBs get significant time to show what they can do.

 

[dmel25]

Why one might actually WANT a QB rotation in OUR UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE:

1. With young QB room with many guys still developing it is less clear who THE guy is.
2. Due to development the guy who starts games 1-6 may not be the guy who gives you the best chance to win in game 7. But if you start the game 7 guy in game one to try and develop him faster via reps you first run the risk of shattering the kid's confidence or giving him a case of the yips he might not recover from. Second, if your mantra is competition is king and the game 1-6 guy outcompetes the game 7 guy in practice then doesn't that guy deserve to start? If the team sees you are playing a guy who doesn't give you the best chance to win now what message does that send to the team?
3. THE BRIGHT LIGHTS. It's all well and good in practice but some guys can't replicate their practice success in games. And some guys who practice less effectively seem to become 'gamers' when thrown under the lights. How do you know which are which? And when guys are young and developing isn't it possible that their development may obfuscate the picture on whether they are a 'gamer' or wilt under the lights? Maybe once the develop their 'gamerness' is free to emerge.
4. If you pick a guy to be THE guy and stick with him, what do you do if he isnt' successful? Stick with him no matter what? Sometimes guys benefit from watching from the sideline for a series or two. But you have to rotate QBs to do that. And if you stick with the guy no matter what and there is a guy in practice who is doing really well and you don't give him a chance what does the team think? Or maybe a back up gives you the better chance to win a specific game (example: Vad Lee rotated in vs UNC then ridden to the win). Vad wasn't the best QB the rest of the year, but he was the best QB against UNC. Easy to see how an inexperienced but uber-talented QB would give you the best chance vs a simple defensive scheme, and a steadier less talented, but less green QB might give you a better chance vs a more complicated D with exotic coverages and pressures.

We have a young QB room and that matters.

In a mature QB room it is usually clearer who THE guy is. Coaches know more firmly where a kid's ceiling might be, whether he has reached that ceiling, or whether it's likely he will ever reach that ceiling. In an older room typically more guys have experience under the bright lights. Leadership qualities in games and off the field are more established and evident. Development typically occurs at a slower rate in a more mature room because many guys have gone through the steep part of the curve already. So it is much easier to know which guy is the one guy you want to roll with.

Unless it's obvious who the starter should be I am not going to jump all over this staff for rotating guys. Last year people say why didn't we go with Grahm from day 1, he would be that much better now with more reps, etc. Look, I want one guy to be THE guy too. And you have to get from A to B. Crystal balls are 20/20. What if you start Grahm game 1 and his confidence gets shattered, he hadn't earned the start yet so you lose the team, etc. Maybe you get blow outs, Grahm doesn't develop and the team does worse than it did.

Now hopefully one guy is obviously THE GUY and we go forward with him. And I doubt this is the case. I feel we will see some rotation as the guys compete and develop until ultimately we find THE guy. It's a process, and I am ok with it.

Flame away.

I agree with this, my issue with the QB rotation last year was how it was executed. The first half of the year we seemed to just randomly swap QBs during a drive and it was infuriating, and to me that kills a player's morale more than if you pull them out after the half or after a quarter. I don't know, I don't have an issue rotating the QBs this year, especially since it is a free year essentially, let the guys get reps in games so we see who comes out and can play the best.

 

[WreckinGT]

The reality is we have very little to base speculation on at this point. We've seen Graham, but we've seen him as a freshmen thrown into the fire at the start of a major transition in schemes. While there are certainly areas that we can take some judgements from, I don't think at this time we've seen enough to say that he couldn't be the guy. Simply put, too many variables that make it hard to distinguish between faults that he has, and faults that were team related. For the others we've seen significantly less than that, and what snippets of information we have are second hand from coaches and don't really provide enough to have informed opinions. At least to me.

With that being said, there has been a sentiment floating around about the need to make a choice. It is true to an extent that if we are to get to where we want to be as a program we will need to have a confirmed #1 QB capable of leading us. There really is no way around that. However, that doesn't mean we need to make that choice today, or even before the season starts. This year will be another transition year. Hopefully better than last year, but I don't think we are just a QB away from being where we want. I would say that making a choice to start the year isn't nearly as important as being able to make the right choice to end the year. So I don't have a good idea on the exact how that it will be done but I expect us to see most, if not all, of the QBs get significant time to show what they can do.

How many transition years are we going to need before we can trust our coaching staff to pick the guy who gives us the best chance to win?

 

[lv20gt]

How many transition years are we going to need before we can trust our coaching staff to pick the guy who gives us the best chance to win?

If your only concern is who gives us the best chance to win the very next game then you're not going agree with what I have to say regardless.

The reality is that the issues we had along the OL, at WR, and in the front 7 on D aren't just going away. They should be better than last year, but they will almost certainly still be major liabilities that we will face this year. Because of that the benefits of making the choice at QB now and sticking with it aren't nearly as beneficial because most likely we'll struggle with whoever is QB and it won't offset those issues. That makes the benefits of a rotation relatively more important, as we're most likely to get back to where we need by making sure we've made the right choice when the time comes that we have addressed those above issues. Hopefully by next year those issues will be small enough where having a guy who has clearly won the job will make a difference. If we never reach that point then we have bigger issues.

The important thing for the long term good of the program is to get the right choice. Not just make a choice now. If Graham starts game 1, but Gleason is the best choice, then I think it's certainly worth it to rotate the QBs some and eventually land on Gleason than to just go with Graham now. And you can sub any two names in and that will hold true.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

This year is a scrimmage session. No one loses any eligibility. Our coaches should treat it as such so going into a real year (2021) we find a competent P5 QB, OLinemen who can push for 1st down on 3rd and 3, a LB Corp who is fast and nasty at point of contact, and DB’s who don’t get burned by Clemson and UGA receivers. Our RB’s and WR’s are already there. Collins knows he’ll begin being judged by TStan in year 3 so the next 3 months (if they happen) are nothing more than in game reps for the guys. I hope we win but I’m not losing sleep if we don’t.

 

[JacketOff]

Yeah, most people aren't going to consider nearly a 60% completion rate, 16TD to 6INT, and 7 rushing TD against a schedule that includes 6 teams that finished in the top 10 a poor season for a true freshman. Im pretty sure we would be happy with those numbers from whoever we pick as QB, and we aren't playing nearly as hard of a schedule.

Did I say he had a poor season? No. I said he had an extremely average season. He was the 101st rated QB in 2019, while out “3 headed monster” was rated at 124. If Bo Nix played QB for Tech last year, his numbers probably look similar to what Graham was putting up. All I’m saying is that there’s no reason to point to Nix as the reason the staff should pick one guy and ride him the entire year through ups and downs. If a guy struggles, the next guy should get a chance. Let them earn the starting role. That’s why I brought up the long line of great QBs who split time early. The cream will always rise to the top, so why let a guy who isn’t producing put a lid on the entire position?

 

[stech81]

This year is a scrimmage session. No one loses any eligibility. Our coaches should treat it as such so going into a real year (2021) we find a competent P5 QB, OLinemen who can push for 1st down on 3rd and 3, a LB Corp who is fast and nasty at point of contact, and DB’s who don’t get burned by Clemson and UGA receivers. Our RB’s and WR’s are already there. Collins knows he’ll begin being judged by TStan in year 3 so the next 3 months (if they happen) are nothing more than in game reps for the guys. I hope we win but I’m not losing sleep if we don’t.

I really our players and coaches don't have your attitude about this being no more than a scrimmage , if the coaches feel that way we have the wrong coaches . you are playing other teams you play to win end of story. ( if you pay for tickets it's a game )

 

[Ash]

This year is a scrimmage session.

The coaching staff treated last year like a scrimmage season, and this year is actually one. It's going to be a long time until we are playing real games isn't it ?

 

[LibertyTurns]

If you take 4 guys and split reps with the starters your inexperienced QB only gets 1/4 the amount of time to develop as the normal practice competition. You start off inexperienced, then you do that and what do you expect in the game? You end up with 4 slightly ready guys which equals no guy. You end up with P’nut’s mess from last year.

The back ups need to be practicing with 2nd string.

CGC needs to pick a horse to ride, not switch horses every 5 mins. We saw how that worked out last year. He gets paid to make the hard decisions if his OC does not know what to do. In this case it’s pretty clear, pick your best QB and get him practice and game experience now.

 

[RonJohn]

I heard Kelly Quinlan interviewed on some radio show last week. He said he figured James Graham to be QB4 at the moment.

According to him, having seen them play a little, Sims was the best dual-threat and Gleason was the best pocket passer (I think he used the term "coach on the field").

I know a lot of posters here seem to think Graham will start again the Noles, because of experience. Any reason to expect something else at this point? Part of me would love to use the "free" season to develop one of the true freshmen, and we could have a 5-year starter on our hands.

In that interview, KQ said that he could see Collins starting Sims for the recruiting image. A last minute flip from FSU to GT starts the first game in the same year that he flips. (and hopefully wins) I could see Collins really harping on something like that when talking to future recruits.

EDIT: I didn't say starts the first game the year he flips against the team he flips from.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I really our players and coaches don't have your attitude about this being no more than a scrimmage , if the coaches feel that way we have the wrong coaches . you are playing other teams you play to win end of story. ( if you pay for tickets it's a game )

Do you not listen to what the staff actually says? They won’t use the term “scrimmage”, but they’ve repeatedly said that all players ATL will play and get a chance to earn every spot. No player wins a job in practice. Players earn jobs based on game performance. Sure, someone will “start” but that means nothing when have 4 guys who haven‘t earned it in a game yet this season.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

The coaching staff treated last year like a scrimmage season, and this year is actually one. It's going to be a long time until we are playing real games isn't it ?

Yes, it is. But a rebuild takes time. Two seasons isn’t really all that long especially when you consider we haven‘t had a QB in any of the last 3 seasons. Don’t blame Collins because high schools had better QB‘s on their rosters than GT did when he took the job. The only way back is thru recruiting and he is getting it done. Hopefully, one of these guys shows up and we’ll win a bunch of games this year.