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Whiskey_Clear

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@dabuz....Lining our Bback up one yard further back...and having him stand up....simply to change public perception...is a horid idea. It would actually affect public perception more negatively becuase it would screw up our effectiveness on dive plays. Might as well just change the offense to I formation if public perception is the primary consideration.

@ramblin....your assertion is also completely incorrect IMO. What you propose would be a fundamental change to our O.
 
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RamblinCharger

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Whiskey_Clear said:
@dabuz....Lining our Bback up one yard further back...and having him stand up....simply to change public perception...is a horid idea. It would actually affect public perception more negatively becuase it would screw up our effectiveness on dive plays. Might as well just change the offense to I formation if public perception is the primary consideration.

@ramblin....your assertion is also completely incorrect IMO. What you propose would be a fundamental change to our O.
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Looks very similar to me here, and people would relate this to Oregon or Auburn and not a "high school offense". I have no problem with the offense I just want better recruits and to win more games.
 

stylee

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RamblinCharger said:


Looks very similar to me here, and people would relate this to Oregon or Auburn and not a "high school offense". I have no problem with the offense I just want better recruits and to win more games.
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I ran this offense from this pistol. I'd note:

1) it's simply slower to do it with the BB standing up. This team counteracted this by putting the QB 1 yard back instead of 2 (I used 2 yards, 1 seems entirely pointless - seems like you'd just get more bad snaps and you no longer get any passing game or qb run game advantage you'd otherwise get with a pistol setup). It's slower and you have to adjust the BB aim point to account for this reduced speed. I also don't think having a 1-yard or 0.5 yard "pistol" changes the perception of us AT ALL. Maybe a 2 or 3 yard pistol look, but...

2) You want a 3 yard pistol AND the BB standing up? Then you keep moving your BB's aim point closer to the center (to get away from the DE). At that point, it makes little sense to base your whole offense on the veer option, instead of the backside read option. You're just not getting enough tread on the veer anymore, as you're more and more dependent now on longer-held blocks (to account for the slowed-down BB dive). So why not switch to something more amenable to longer-held blocks, like a zone read option?

So this is just you saying "let's run what everyone else runs." Cool, fire Paul Johnson, because that's the only way you get this result. You're asking for a different offense, not this offense.

Like I said, I ran this offense from the pistol. I had the QB at 2 yards and the BB in a 3-point stance. I also had to use my fastest guys at BB.
Keep the 3 point stance and you're no longer "sexy." Lose it and you run a different offense. Your call.
 
RamblinCharger

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stylee said:
I ran this offense from this pistol. I'd note:

1) it's simply slower to do it with the BB standing up. This team counteracted this by putting the QB 1 yard back instead of 2 (I used 2 yards, 1 seems entirely pointless - seems like you'd just get more bad snaps and you no longer get any passing game or qb run game advantage you'd otherwise get with a pistol setup). It's slower and you have to adjust the BB aim point to account for this reduced speed. I also don't think having a 1-yard or 0.5 yard "pistol" changes the perception of us AT ALL. Maybe a 2 or 3 yard pistol look, but...

2) You want a 3 yard pistol AND the BB standing up? Then you keep moving your BB's aim point closer to the center (to get away from the DE). At that point, it makes little sense to base your whole offense on the veer option, instead of the backside read option. You're just not getting enough tread on the veer anymore, as you're more and more dependent now on longer-held blocks (to account for the slowed-down BB dive). So why not switch to something more amenable to longer-held blocks, like a zone read option?

So this is just you saying "let's run what everyone else runs." Cool, fire Paul Johnson, because that's the only way you get this result. You're asking for a different offense, not this offense.

Like I said, I ran this offense from the pistol. I had the QB at 2 yards and the BB in a 3-point stance. I also had to use my fastest guys at BB.
Keep the 3 point stance and you're no longer "sexy." Lose it and you run a different offense. Your call.
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I thought about putting a ski gun video up as well because that is what you ran I believe if I'm reading correctly. Anything to spread the offense out helps with perception in my opinion. I'm basing that off of talking Georgia tech football with high schoolers, college aged kids, and young adults that are not tech fans. Most of them like our offense some but wouldn't want their team to run it because it isn't flashy enough for them. I personally like the flexbone, especially with Justin Thomas running it, but I think it hurts the passing game and hurts recruiting. I don't have statistical data to back that up, just my opinion and others probably disagree. I personally would like to see a pistol at 2 yards and 2 yards with a BB or a diamond formation at 3 yards and 2 yards because that allows for some power running plays. This is all based on my opinion and what I believe is the perception of our offense and team, it wasn't meant to offend anyone or say that I don't like our offense or coach Johnson at all.
 
RamblinCharger

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jeffgt14 said:
…surely I’m not the only one who finds this statement to be asinine.
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Probably not but its logical, the fact that tech fans wouldn't want sidewalk fans is beyond me. We aren't a country club or the free masons. I'll take any fans that we can get. Fans=money=better recruiting=winning more games. Surely I'm not the only one that thinks this is the case...

Also, how is that an asinine comment?
 

stylee

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RamblinCharger said:
I thought about putting a ski gun video up as well because that is what you ran I believe if I'm reading correctly. Anything to spread the offense out helps with perception in my opinion. I'm basing that off of talking Georgia tech football with high schoolers, college aged kids, and young adults that are not tech fans. Most of them like our offense some but wouldn't want their team to run it because it isn't flashy enough for them. I personally like the flexbone, especially with Justin Thomas running it, but I think it hurts the passing game and hurts recruiting. I don't have statistical data to back that up, just my opinion and others probably disagree. I personally would like to see a pistol at 2 yards and 2 yards with a BB or a diamond formation at 3 yards and 2 yards because that allows for some power running plays. This is all based on my opinion and what I believe is the perception of our offense and team, it wasn't meant to offend anyone or say that I don't like our offense or coach Johnson at all.
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Yeah, I did a ski-gun type offense.
I think the ski-gun, with the slightly deeper QB and a 3-point stance BB, gives you a lot of good things. I'd obviously enjoy watching it.
I think we'd have the exact same struggles recruiting a BB as we do now. Considering that we're now landing some pretty good recruits at the position (Custis, Leggett, MLD), I don't think this is the time to jump ship.

If we do go to a ski-gun, I'd like Coach Johnson to know that I'd be happy to give some (highly paid) expert advice on the formation.
 
jeffgt14

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RamblinCharger said:
Probably not but its logical, the fact that tech fans wouldn't want sidewalk fans is beyond me. We aren't a country club or the free masons. I'll take any fans that we can get. Fans=money=better recruiting=winning more games. Surely I'm not the only one that thinks this is the case...

Also, how is that an asinine comment?
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I don’t see how running the exact same offense except lining it up further back so it doesn’t run as efficiently as it does now will have a greater effect on fans/recruits than just running what we run now and winning more.
 
RamblinCharger

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jeffgt14 said:
I don’t see how running the exact same offense except lining it up further back so it doesn’t run as efficiently as it does now will have a greater effect on fans/recruits than just running what we run now and winning more.
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I'm going to assume you're not 18-22 years old. I'm just out of that category and it would make a difference with 18-22 year old kids. Go show them a triple option from the pistol and then show them a triple option out of the flex, and see which one they would rather watch and play in. If there are no preconceived notions about the teams you are showing them I imagine at least 7/10 would pick the pistol. It's all about perception when it comes to high schoolers and college age kids. That's just how branding works.
 
jeffgt14

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RamblinCharger said:
I'm going to assume you're not 18-22 years old. I'm just out of that category and it would make a difference with 18-22 year old kids. Go show them a triple option from the pistol and then show them a triple option out of the flex, and see which one they would rather watch and play in. If there are no preconceived notions about the teams you are showing them I imagine at least 7/10 would pick the pistol. It's all about perception when it comes to high schoolers and college age kids. That's just how branding works.
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So a team running a pistol winning 5-6 games a year would be more attractive to a kid than a team running a flexbone winning 8-9 games a year? All other things being equal.
 
jeffgt14

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RamblinCharger said:
Why are we assuming that we'd suck at it?
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Because Paul Johnson has 30 years of experience running it the way he does. He will have to waste all of his time and energy changing the timing of every read and block without any growing pains whatsoever for the soul purpose of running his offense with the EXACT SAME efficiency but it would “look prettier”.
 
RamblinCharger

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Also since when do we average 8-9 wins a year? Paul's record is 52-33 divide those wins by 7 seasons and you get around 7 wins a year 7.5 since you can't count this year completely.
 
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