QB Johnson injured - UPDATE

[TampaGT]

Half assed commitment is not doing.

Why do you consider it a half assed commitment?

 

[lv20gt]

Why do you consider it a half assed commitment?

We have a coach that will run the five 40 times even if it's just picking up 2 yards, but we went away from the diamond basically after one game with really only running token plays out of it about 5 times a game.

 

[Techster]

Vad was 11-23 passing in COFH and it wasn’t like we were behind earlier and had to throw late. So you can’t say CPJ abandoned it halfway through the season.

This is like all the CPJ haters saying the offense doesn't work after we have a horrible offensive game, then all the pro CPJ guys saying this offense is the best offense for GT after we roll up a gazillion yards after a win.

I think you need to watch what CPJ did early in the season in 2013 versus what he did later in 2013. Fact is, CPJ sold Vad (and other offensive recruits) during that period on "opening up" the offense and incorporating schemes from Washington Redskins and other read option teams. EVERYONE was excited for 2013, and graduating players were quoted as saying they wished they had one more season to play in the "new" offense built around Vad.

Unfortunately, CPJ wasn't willing to go through growing pains of a first year starter + incorporating new schemes to complement his offense. His team, his choice...but it also showed recruits that CPJ was not willing use outside ideas to enhance the talent he has.

Someone made the comment that CPJ is recruited kids that can pass and maybe he's got something up his sleeve for the future. I thought the same thing a long time ago, but after 10 years of waiting, I'm not holding my breath. LJ's arm is a great weapon. I guess it'll be useful for our defense during practice.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

This is like all the CPJ haters saying the offense doesn't work after we have a horrible offensive game, then all the pro CPJ guys saying this offense is the best offense for GT after we roll up a gazillion yards after a win.

I think you need to watch what CPJ did early in the season in 2013 versus what he did later in 2013. Fact is, CPJ sold Vad (and other offensive recruits) during that period on "opening up" the offense and incorporating schemes from Washington Redskins and other read option teams. EVERYONE was excited for 2013, and graduating players were quoted as saying they wished they had one more season to play in the "new" offense built around Vad.

Unfortunately, CPJ wasn't willing to go through growing pains of a first year starter + incorporating new schemes to complement his offense. His team, his choice...but it also showed recruits that CPJ was not willing use outside ideas to enhance the talent he has.

Someone made the comment that CPJ is recruited kids that can pass and maybe he's got something up his sleeve for the future. I thought the same thing a long time ago, but after 10 years of waiting, I'm not holding my breath. LJ's arm is a great weapon. I guess it'll be useful for our defense during practice.

JT says hi.

 

[kg01]

Why do you consider it a half assed commitment?

Because ATL has an anti-CPJ agenda.

 

[BCJacket]

Because ATL has an anti-CPJ agenda.

I remember CPJ saying that since we weren't very good at our 'base' offense and we needed to focus on that and not try to do too much. 'Dance with the girl that brung you'- ie, the Flexbone wasn't effective.

So, CPJ insisted on grinding out something we weren't good at. Because he thought we needed to be able to run the flexbone veer to be successful and everything else was a 'wrinkle'. But that the shotgun, passing, diamond stuff was working- I traveled to that Duke game, it was awesome. Then in 2014 we got really good at the Flexbone veer again.

I don't think either offensive approach is right or wrong. They both are capable of being effective. But CPJ wants to run the flexbone, damn the torpedoes.

 

[Longestday]

The change back gave us 2014... and 2016.

 

[GTonTop88]

The change back gave us 2014... and 2016.

JTs arm made this offense what it was in both of those years.

Don’t get me wrong, running the ball 60 times a game averaging 10 ypc is nice but that won’t happen against many teams. Then when it’s consistently 3rd and long that’s when we all realize that this offense isn’t going to work they way we need it to.

We aren’t far off, just need CPJ to “open up” and commit to it. That can bring in better talent and mak our offense a juggernaut that we seen in 2014

 

[GTJoeBrew]

JTs arm made this offense what it was in both of those years.

Don’t get me wrong, running the ball 60 times a game averaging 10 ypc is nice but that won’t happen against many teams. Then when it’s consistently 3rd and long that’s when we all realize that this offense isn’t going to work they way we need it to.

We aren’t far off, just need CPJ to “open up” and commit to it. That can bring in better talent and mak our offense a juggernaut that we seen in 2014

JT made the game winning throws, that's what we have been missing without him. When everyone knows that we are going to throw we are less effective. Somehow JT could buy enough time to find an open guy and hit him. He was a special player under pressure and we won't have another one like him. Now, we might be able to find guys with a different skill set that can get us there. Graham and LJ might be able to show us something that we haven't seen since Vad(pre NC game).

 

[stylee]

I think you need to watch what CPJ did early in the season in 2013 versus what he did later in 2013. Fact is, CPJ sold Vad (and other offensive recruits) during that period on "opening up" the offense and incorporating schemes from Washington Redskins and other read option teams. EVERYONE was excited for 2013, and graduating players were quoted as saying they wished they had one more season to play in the "new" offense built around Vad.

Unfortunately, CPJ wasn't willing to go through growing pains of a first year starter + incorporating new schemes to complement his offense. His team, his choice...but it also showed recruits that CPJ was not willing use outside ideas to enhance the talent he has.

Vad 2013: 45.6% completion rate; 1571 yards; 8.7 yards/attempt; 11 touchdowns; 10 picks

JT 2014: 51.3% completion rate; 1719 yards; 9.2 yards/attempt; 18 touchdowns; 6 picks


Vad was not that great a passer. Maybe his lack of development is CPJ's fault. Maybe he would have been a better passer than JT, if only he had been allowed to "get into a groove" with more throws, or he is a unique player in that he's an amazing passer out of the shotgun and a below-average one from under center. Maybe. But all available evidence indicates that Vad was not that great a passer and that CPJ had no real reason to "open things up" with Vad.

Yeah, he had a strong arm. When he was on, he was very accurate. But he wasn't always on. And he was really inconsistent with his passing reads, often missing open receivers. He had a great arm but he simply wasn't much of a passing quarterback.

Vad is proof that most of our perceptions our colored by our expectations. People talk about him as if he were Dan Marino. What did he do at the Division 1 level to establish that he was a good throwing quarterback? Look at Tevin in 2012: 56.4%, 1222 yards; 9.2 yards/attempt; 8 touchdowns; 4 picks. That's splitting time with Vad. And that's with Jeff Effing Greene as his top WR target, followed by the immortal Jeremy Moore.

But no one says "CPJ should have adapted his offense to Tevin's unique skill as a passer!" No, his arm wasn't as strong, but he was a better throwing quarterback than Vad. Justin Thomas was a much better passer than Vad.

I think the arguments here that Vad's skillset should have made CPJ throw it more with him, despite all significant evidence, are the following:

A) He, more than JT or Tevin, needed to throw more to "get into a groove." I have no idea how one would go about proving this, as not even the "eye test" helps establish it.

B) He, more than JT or Tevin, was a better passer out of the gun or pistol than under center. Again, this is one of those things premised on the idea that there's just something different about Vad that made him look worse than the others. But, it's a bit more plausible in that some guys really are a little more comfortable out of the gun. But good passers are still good passers, even if some are better out of the gun.

C) He didn't have the wideouts. Well, his wideouts in 2013 were better than Tevin's in 2012. He had two NFL players at wideout. JT had the same two in 2014 and put up much better numbers. Sure, they developed over that year, but it's also really likely that their numbers weren't better in 2013 because their quarterback was not all that great at getting them the ball.

Our QBs as passers, ranked:

1) Tevin Washington
2) Justin Thomas
3) Joshua Nesbitt
4) Taquan Marshall

 

[stylee]

Strong argument, WrongShadeOfGold.


As to Lucas Johnson: I hope he comes on strong. I prefer having good passers and - small sample size - he looks pretty good as a thrower. Tobias hasn't demonstrated he's much of a passer - small sample size again, of course, but haven't seen anything yet. Our limited looks at Lucas indicate he's also a pretty solid runner. I'd prefer him to take the reins.

 

[TampaGT]

Don’t know if this posted but CPJ did say this week that both LJ and KB were ahead of schedule, but that only LJ would probably be ready for Spring. Things could change before but nice to hear that both are doing good. LJ needs the spring to battle for starting QB

 

[Techster]

Vad 2013: 45.6% completion rate; 1571 yards; 8.7 yards/attempt; 11 touchdowns; 10 picks

JT 2014: 51.3% completion rate; 1719 yards; 9.2 yards/attempt; 18 touchdowns; 6 picks


Vad was not that great a passer. Maybe his lack of development is CPJ's fault. Maybe he would have been a better passer than JT, if only he had been allowed to "get into a groove" with more throws, or he is a unique player in that he's an amazing passer out of the shotgun and a below-average one from under center. Maybe. But all available evidence indicates that Vad was not that great a passer and that CPJ had no real reason to "open things up" with Vad.

Yeah, he had a strong arm. When he was on, he was very accurate. But he wasn't always on. And he was really inconsistent with his passing reads, often missing open receivers. He had a great arm but he simply wasn't much of a passing quarterback.

Vad is proof that most of our perceptions our colored by our expectations. People talk about him as if he were Dan Marino. What did he do at the Division 1 level to establish that he was a good throwing quarterback? Look at Tevin in 2012: 56.4%, 1222 yards; 9.2 yards/attempt; 8 touchdowns; 4 picks. That's splitting time with Vad. And that's with Jeff Effing Greene as his top WR target, followed by the immortal Jeremy Moore.

But no one says "CPJ should have adapted his offense to Tevin's unique skill as a passer!" No, his arm wasn't as strong, but he was a better throwing quarterback than Vad. Justin Thomas was a much better passer than Vad.

I think the arguments here that Vad's skillset should have made CPJ throw it more with him, despite all significant evidence, are the following:

A) He, more than JT or Tevin, needed to throw more to "get into a groove." I have no idea how one would go about proving this, as not even the "eye test" helps establish it.

B) He, more than JT or Tevin, was a better passer out of the gun or pistol than under center. Again, this is one of those things premised on the idea that there's just something different about Vad that made him look worse than the others. But, it's a bit more plausible in that some guys really are a little more comfortable out of the gun. But good passers are still good passers, even if some are better out of the gun.

C) He didn't have the wideouts. Well, his wideouts in 2013 were better than Tevin's in 2012. He had two NFL players at wideout. JT had the same two in 2014 and put up much better numbers. Sure, they developed over that year, but it's also really likely that their numbers weren't better in 2013 because their quarterback was not all that great at getting them the ball.

Our QBs as passers, ranked:

1) Tevin Washington
2) Justin Thomas
3) Joshua Nesbitt
4) Taquan Marshall

Again, here's proof that too many want to boil it down to stats to take away from the argument about the effects of the system off the field.

I've ALWAYS said this offense works, and the better the players, the better it works. Your use of JeT proves that. 2014, with 2 NFL WRs, and NFL OG, an NFL RB prove that. Anyone who can do a google search will be able to tell you that JeT 2014 > Vad 2013. That's not the argument.

NEVER have I said that Vad was better than player X, Y, or Z (at least not in terms on the field production, possibly better physical tools...but a LOT of players have good physical tools but limited on the field production). The point I've tried to make is CPJ (the coach) and CPJ's system has probably taken GT as far as it can go. Vad is an example of a recruiting promise made to a player, but was the promise sincere? I don't ever think I've found CPJ to be insincere, but CPJ and recruits also made a big deal about "opening up the offense" only to have it scrapped halfway through 2013. That resonates with recruiting, and it resonates with the perception of CPJ and our program. I'm more concerned with that than Vad putting up monster numbers in some "open up" offense that was promised to him in recruiting.

CPJ's offense works. Great. Certain players put up good numbers. Great. Only problem is CPJ is the HEAD COACH, not only the OC. Defense has been attrocious since he stepped foot on GT. Our ACC record is not very good. Our record against P5 teams is...you can google the "good" news on that.

Point is, you can throw players' stats at me, but it misses the point I'm making. We're in agreement about respective players...but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Jacket prime]

Don’t know if this posted but CPJ did say this week that both LJ and KB were ahead of schedule, but that only LJ would probably be ready for Spring. Things could change before but nice to hear that both are doing good. LJ needs the spring to battle for starting QB

Really glad to hear that!

 

[ibeattetris]

JTs arm made this offense what it was in both of those years.

Don’t get me wrong, running the ball 60 times a game averaging 10 ypc is nice but that won’t happen against many teams. Then when it’s consistently 3rd and long that’s when we all realize that this offense isn’t going to work they way we need it to.

We aren’t far off, just need CPJ to “open up” and commit to it. That can bring in better talent and mak our offense a juggernaut that we seen in 2014

The ability for our QB to throw is 100% required for us to be consistent across all defenses. One of the biggest things we miss is that 12 yard comeback route that Smelter and JT would consistently hit.

I just dislike arguments that ignore the years when the offense was unstoppable.

 

[danny daniel]

If he hadn’t had already redshirted he wouldn’t need a medical redshirt. He could just redshirt if I’m not mistaken.

CORRECT

 

[g0lftime]

Are you forgetting that HS players don't take calculus???!! Sorry, had to do it. Hadn't seen the word on the board in a matter of days. FWIW, I would like to see a correlation between the frequency of this word and the previous week's FB result. I bet the r value to be strong (.8 "ish).

Actually the smart ones do take calculus in high school.

 

[Longestday]

@WrongShadeOfGold The list he provided was by % completion. That is what is so crazy... TW had the highest completion rate even though JT was a better passer.... go figure.

 

[ATL1]

“Johnson is recovering from a tear of the Lisfranc ligament in his foot this past preseason. Anderson said that Johnson expects to be 100 percent by spring practice.“

https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/...gia-tech-quarterbacks/NRXi2lliMDVJGofBHycjZK/

 

[UgaBlows]

Great news!