QB battle

Whiskey_Clear

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
@tech_wreck47

"the D played good minus the 4th"........that can be interpreted in a number of ways regarding an assessment of overall play.

Your responses have seemed pretty fired up (just my perception), so yeah it appeared to me you were either being critical of the overall play of the D....or were nitpicking my comment you quoted simply to further some debate. I'm still not sure which is the case.

I'm not trying to shut down any of your posted opinions but you appear to be kinda defensive assuming I am. Please carry on. (y)

As for the overall play of both units. Both had some bright and not so bright moments. Its been awhile so I'd actually have to go back and watch the game again to give out grades. My recollection is the D shouldered the majority of the load that game and carried the day overall.
 

GTech63

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,117
Location
Montgomery, TX (77356)
TOP 1st half GT 21:12 VT 8:48 2nd GT 14:43 VT 15:17 VT total yards 437
Points off turn overs GT 17 (none by D) VT 7 We got 4 turn overs to their 1.
It was a team win. Getting the turn overs was big but so was 36 minutes TOP vs 24 for VT. VT gift of muffing Field goal was too.
Going into 4th qtr score was 20-7 At 9:16 of 4th 30-7.
It takes both an O and a D to field a championship team. Plus good ball bounces in our favor help a lot.
 
tech_wreck47

tech_wreck47

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,670
Whiskey_Clear said:
@tech_wreck47

"the D played good minus the 4th"........that can be interpreted in a number of ways regarding an assessment of overall play.

Your responses have seemed pretty fired up (just my perception), so yeah it appeared to me you were either being critical of the overall play of the D....or were nitpicking my comment you quoted simply to further some debate. I'm still not sure which is the case.

I'm not trying to shut down any of your posted opinions but you appear to be kinda defensive assuming I am. Please carry on. (y)

As for the overall play of both units. Both had some bright and not so bright moments. Its been awhile so I'd actually have to go back and watch the game again to give out grades. My recollection is the D shouldered the majority of the load that game and carried the day overall.
Click to expand...
No hard feelings here. I will point out something else another poster said, special teams did really good in that game.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,573
GTech63 said:
It was a team win. Getting the turn overs was big but so was 36 minutes TOP vs 24 for VT. VT gift of muffing Field goal was too.
Click to expand...

ToP is not just about offense. The big reason we dominated the ToP in the first half is because the average length of VTs possessions was 1.26.

Also, we scored 3 TDs against VT. Those possessions lasted 1.38 and netted a total of 21 points.
We also had 5 drives that took an average of 4.49 that netted a total of 9 points

ToP is severely overblown.
 

GTech63

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,117
Location
Montgomery, TX (77356)
lv20gt said:
ToP is not just about offense. The big reason we dominated the ToP in the first half is because the average length of VTs possessions was 1.26.

Also, we scored 3 TDs against VT. Those possessions lasted 1.38 and netted a total of 21 points.
We also had 5 drives that took an average of 4.49 that netted a total of 9 points

ToP is severely overblown.
Click to expand...
You are correct about TOP not just about offense, but I have to disagree completely, that it is over blown. As long as our O has the ball and does not make a turn over, the opponents cannot score. Also TOP effects the opponents mentally in they feel they HAVE to score when they have the ball which leads to errors. Also allows our D to remain more refreshed than theirs.

BTW special teams giving opponents poor field possession play a huge part in the defensive part of the game. That and a good D with our O makes for a powerful team. I think we are headed in that direction.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,573
GTech63 said:
You are correct about TOP not just about offense, but I have to disagree completely, that it is over blown. As long as our O has the ball and does not make a turn over, the opponents cannot score. Also TOP effects the opponents mentally in they feel they HAVE to score when they have the ball which leads to errors. Also allows our D to remain more refreshed than theirs.
Click to expand...

The opponent not scoring is less important than the score differential. It's better to win 44-30 than 21-14. A 7 minute drive ending in a FG isn't that effective unless you also have a defense that can reliably hold teams out of field goal range. And if you have that there is little need for the offense to hold the ball so the opponent doesn't score. Otherwise you go 7 minutes to get 3 points, they return in 2 minutes to get 7 and you find yourself down 4 and have lost 9 minutes of game time.

Why would TOP force the mentality that they have to score every time, but not us? When we are eating time it shortens the game for both teams, and causes us to also have fewer possessions. What forces other teams to feel like they need to score every time is you scoring more, and scoring TDs rather than FGs. Whether each team gets 5 drives or 15 they will usually get about the same number of drives, so limiting the number of drives isn't what puts pressure on opposing teams.

Lastly, the argument for more rest is also overblown, and confuses the idea of ToP with actual time taken. People forget that the clock stops on incomplete passes, but that doesn't change how much time is allowed between plays. A run for 0 yards and an incomplete pass both achieve the same number of yards, and same amount of real time, yet one collects 30 seconds of extra ToP. So of course a run heavy offense will get extra ToP, but that doesn't mean it actually translates to more time to rest. Sure, our offense overall shortens the game, so in that sense we keep everyone fresher, but that is true for both teams. You are also usually talking something like a few minutes difference. That means very little.
 
iceeater1969

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,998
lv20gt said:
The opponent not scoring is less important than the score differential. It's better to win 44-30 than 21-14. A 7 minute drive ending in a FG isn't that effective unless you also have a defense that can reliably hold teams out of field goal range. And if you have that there is little need for the offense to hold the ball so the opponent doesn't score. Otherwise you go 7 minutes to get 3 points, they return in 2 minutes to get 7 and you find yourself down 4 and have lost 9 minutes of game time.

Why would TOP force the mentality that they have to score every time, but not us? When we are eating time it shortens the game for both teams, and causes us to also have fewer possessions. What forces other teams to feel like they need to score every time is you scoring more, and scoring TDs rather than FGs. Whether each team gets 5 drives or 15 they will usually get about the same number of drives, so limiting the number of drives isn't what puts pressure on opposing teams.

Lastly, the argument for more rest is also overblown, and confuses the idea of ToP with actual time taken. People forget that the clock stops on incomplete passes, but that doesn't change how much time is allowed between plays. A run for 0 yards and an incomplete pass both achieve the same number of yards, and same amount of real time, yet one collects 30 seconds of extra ToP. So of course a run heavy offense will get extra ToP, but that doesn't mean it actually translates to more time to rest. Sure, our offense overall shortens the game, so in that sense we keep everyone fresher, but that is true for both teams. You are also usually talking something like a few minutes difference. That means very little.
Click to expand...
Good point on "it really matters what u do w time of possession.

When I lived in Texas I went to Baylor games. On aspect of their strategy was to have more and better conditioned we than opponent had db. On almost every play the wide outs on each sideline went long. By third quarter receivers were getting wide open. Baylor blitxed to get the ball back. If opponent scored so what. Baylor got on offense and kept up pressure to score on every play.

Our offense does the same thing when it wears down the d line. Someday when offense is working and defense can get stops (3 & out). We will be awesome.
 
dressedcheeseside

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
14,070
As long as your offense is scoring and their's is not, time of possession is meaningless. However, this is not normally the case for GT. Typically, our defense struggles. That is why TOP is an important factor in our chances of winning. We still must score td's at the end of our drives or our increased TOP actually hurts us and favors the opponent.

A significant downside to our good friend the "Death March" is the reliance on near flawless execution. Long drives present more opportunities for errors that can kill (turnovers, punts) drives. We must be able to get reliable gains on first and second down to take pressure off and create more options on 3rd and 4th downs. Penalties, TFL's and plays for no gain are all very problematic on long, time consuming drives. But if you can do them, they are devastating to the opponent. This is why I prefer experience over upside with our qb.

What I like about our offense is the likelihood of nearly any play going the distance if blocked/read correctly. In fact, many of our plays do not even require perfect blocking to go for big yards. I think we should just play our game based on what the defense presents and if we execute well, we'll have a healthy mix of big plays and Death Marches within a game.
 
deeeznutz

deeeznutz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,329
GTech63 said:
Yes ST did well. VT started inside their 15 four times from Rodwell punts. Butker 3/3 field goals 6/7 kickoffs touch backs. Total team win.
Click to expand...

The consistent touchbacks from Butker were so demoralizing for opposing returners, you'd see the big time guys from our opponents start to try and return some questionable kicks and end up getting stoned at the 15. I REALLY hope one of our new batch of kickers can boom it like he did to keep that part of the game neutralized. I think we'll miss him more for his kickoffs than his field goals, tbh.
 
Whiskey_Clear

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
We are designed as a big play offense. When we death march folks we often are not hitting on all cylinders but still winning enough battles to keep the chains moving. Has always seemed high reward low risk unless we are severely overmatched or playing horribly. (yes one can lead to another)
 
dressedcheeseside

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
14,070
Whiskey_Clear said:
We are designed as a big play offense. When we death march folks we often are not hitting on all cylinders but still winning enough battles to keep the chains moving. Has always seemed high reward low risk unless we are severely overmatched or playing horribly. (yes one can lead to another)
Click to expand...
I think our ability to death march folks increases with our ability to run between the tackles. A biproduct of this is more big plays. Defenses have to play honest and when that doesn't work, they start gambling. That's when we start seeing wide open (uncovered) receivers and pitch backs with 20 yards of green in front of them.
 
Milwaukee

Milwaukee

Banned
Messages
7,277
Location
Milwaukee, WI
danny daniel said:
Absolutely. And those big inside plays can come at any time from anywhere on the field. Having to scheme to stop those big plays has to open up other things. Look for big plays this year from our O.
Click to expand...

Passing game opens everything up for us, more than the running game. The best years Paul has had have been the 2 with Bebe and Smelter. One dominant WR makes Paul damn near unstoppable.
 
Whiskey_Clear

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
This group of skill guys....(Jeune, Stewart, LYNCH, Green, Qua) and the threat they pose in the passing game....makes me almost sad for opposing DCs.....well not really but it sure as hell gets me excited about '17!!!

Heck, that's even omitting Mills, Cotrell, and Benson.....and I think they are all capable too. I need some booze to calm down again now...my adrenaline is flowing.
 
Top