President Peterson has announced his retirement

[HurricaneJacket]

If true, then it was also the BoR who have allowed degree programs into GT that would have never been considered just a few short decades ago.

Can’t have it both ways.

Tis a NWO@GT. I hope.

Hope we win so many football games that GT alums have no degree to fall back on, and because they have no other worth as a human being / employee (er) that they all have to deliver pizzas.

@TheSilasSonRising what does NWO mean?

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

In my view, it was embarrassing that GA's "flagstaff" university didn't have a school of engineering. Is there even a University of [insert state] that doesn't have a school of engineering? And if there isn't, how late was UGA to the party?

They actually did already have a nominal school of engineering, but what the BOR did was make it "significant".

 

[iceeater1969]

I don’t think the argument is as one sided and simple. I’m a huge GT sports fan and want nothing more than to invest. But there are a lot of smart people who believe our strengths as an elite research university lend itself to looking more like our “true” peers that elect to play D3 sports: Carnegie Mellon, Case Western, WashU, U of Chicago, NYU, Washington & Lee, Emory, Johns Hopkins, Brandeis, MIT.

Are the undergrad class size for each of these "truely" in our league. ? This is a false comparison - One quick check. MIT 5K and GT 15K. Check the home state students at MIT verses Gt . If w up the entrance requirements cut the class size and we can cut way back on the in state students.

 

[Animal02]

And they lost every time it went to court, but you are correct in the cause

And they should have lost. Unfortunately, there was really no way to fight the feds....lack of standing. Unfortunately, students were the victims.

 

[Animal02]

Dynamic scheduling is difficult, like de-conflicting strike operations in a war zone. Most other scheduling is child’s play. With 16k students & limited majors an elite Institute like GT should be able to figure out how to offer a mandatory, required for graduation class more than once a year or semester. If he needed help, well we’ve got an IE school that’s been ranked #1 for nearly 6 million straight years that I’m sure has someone that can figure it out.

@LongforDodd posted a link to the provost’s bio. The fact that academics are naturally predisposed to hate sports is not surprising. There’s 3 things academics are notoriously bad at- getting a real paying job in the private sector, playing sports outside of stuff like badminton etc, finding a chick that shaves her pits & legs and doesn’t have a stache.

Again, it is individual faculty and departments that set the schedule. One of the faculty in my wife's department offers a required class, onece a year on Friday afternoon. It screws a lot of students, but she is the only one that can teach it and that is when she is available....there isn't the numbers for a second class.

 

[gtstinger776]

Are the undergrad class size for each of these "truely" in our league. ? This is a false comparison - One quick check. MIT 5K and GT 15K. Check the home state students at MIT verses Gt . If w up the entrance requirements cut the class size and we can cut way back on the in state students.

That’s fair. I wouldn’t disagree. But my point is that we look more like those guys than uga, Clemson, etc. I think our best comparison is prob UVA. But I think they have similar debates with their academic administration

 

[gthxxxx]

It is BOR policy that no more than 10% of the athletic association budget can be provided by the school. The school provides very close to that. That includes facilities services performed by GT personnel/contractors on GTAA property. That includes rental of property owned by GT. That includes pretty much anything that the school can provide that has monetary value.

It isn't Peterson's unwritten policy, it is written policy of the Georgia BOR.

After some googling, I found a document summarizing GTAA finances [1]. Page 17 gives a summary of the summary. "Institutional support" for 2017 is only ~3% of revenue. However, that doesn't include "student athletic fees" (~8%) and "premium lease fees" (~14%) among some others that one could argue is something the school provides. Actually, I find it questionable that GTAA can claim lease fees as revenue, since I would argue the school owns the estate, not GTAA. The closest corresponding expenses are "utilities" and "operation, maintenance, and plant," which the sum is less than half of the lease revenue. A more in-depth reading of the document may justify or raise more suspicions, but I leave that to the interested reader.

[1] http://fin-services.gatech.edu/sites/default/files/images/gtaa_final_financial_statements.pdf

 

[Animal02]

Calculus is absolutely *not* required for every major at Tech. I took 1 semester of Calc as a CS major. Didn’t take Calc2 that spring because I was mulling a major change. I jumped on the M Train after a semester away (as a music ed major interestingly enough) and my first semester back, satisfied my other math credit with Finite Math. The majority of our student athletes are in the now Scheller College of Business and Calc is still not a requirement.

Stop perpetuating the fallacy that every student has to take actual calculus. It’s just not true.

This has been discussed to death.....a minimum or Survey of Calculus is required......which is far more math than most NFL hopefully that are not looking to play school want to come near.

 

[iceeater1969]

I have seen zero evidence that the President doesn't at least look favorably on athletics. When the athletics department hasn't been inept, they have gotten most of the facilities improvements that they could - I see no evidence that the office of the President hindered that in any way.

Your comments about the degrees may or may not be valid, but I am not sure of that.

I just don't like the thought that the president is somehow supposed to be able to add another $40 mil to the athletics budget and that if he doesn't he's a crappy President.

Please show some evidence he did do anything for gtaa.
Did he insist that the AA and gtaa jointly raise $ for big multi purpose facilities.?;
That edge center could be 10 stories.
What a view.

Did the AA ever share their list of Alums.

So give a list of what he did?

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Please show some evidence he did do anything for gtaa.
Did he insist that the AA and gtaa jointly raise $ for big multi purpose facilities.?;
That edge center could be 10 stories.
Did the AA ever share their list of Alums.

So give a list of what he did?

Not disputing you, but even though there has never been any "official" sharing of a list of alums, there IS an alumni directory that anybody can access, including the AD

 

[Animal02]

After some googling, I found a document summarizing GTAA finances [1]. Page 17 gives a summary of the summary. "Institutional support" for 2017 is only ~3% of revenue. However, that doesn't include "student athletic fees" (~8%) and "premium lease fees" (~14%) among some others that one could argue is something the school provides. Actually, I find it questionable that GTAA can claim lease fees as revenue, since I would argue the school owns the estate, not GTAA. The closest corresponding expenses are "utilities" and "operation, maintenance, and plant," which the sum is less than half of the lease revenue. A more in-depth reading of the document may justify or raise more suspicions, but I leave that to the interested reader.

[1] http://fin-services.gatech.edu/sites/default/files/images/gtaa_final_financial_statements.pdf

There maybe some sort of master lease from GT to GTAA, which allows them to lease out facilities and capture the revenue.

 

[gthxxxx]

Are the undergrad class size for each of these "truely" in our league. ? This is a false comparison - One quick check. MIT 5K and GT 15K. Check the home state students at MIT verses Gt . If w up the entrance requirements cut the class size and we can cut way back on the in state students.

As I understand, the philosophy of GT for most of its history was to apply lower threshold filtering at the entrance with more stringent filtering during one's higher education. From what I've heard and somewhat supported by acceptance rates reported by U.S News, this is opposite compared to most top 10 engineering schools that are highly selective at admissions (and probably more lenient grading curves?). I personally agree more with GT's way, since it's extremely difficult to evaluate high school students across the nation. However, it does seem both from my experience and word of mouth that GT is easing up on the weed-out culture... which is contributing to the overpopulation of GT and straining of its services in my opinion since fewer students are dropping out.

Edit: One quick comparison I'd like to add is MIT's student-faculty ratio of 3:1 [1] vs GT's of 22:1 [2]. One can do a quick rundown of the other top engineering schools, and GT is by far behind in this aspect.
[1]: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/massachusetts-institute-of-technology-2178
[2]: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/georgia-institute-of-technology-1569

 

[Animal02]

As I understand, the philosophy of GT for most of its history was to apply lower threshold filtering at the entrance with more stringent filtering during one's higher education. From what I've heard and somewhat supported by acceptance rates reported by U.S News, this is opposite compared to most top 10 engineering schools that are highly selective at admissions (and probably more lenient grading curves?). I personally agree more with GT's way, since it's extremely difficult to evaluate high school students across the nation. However, it does seem both from my experience and word of mouth that GT is easing up on the weed-out culture... which is contributing to the overpopulation of GT and straining of its services in my opinion since fewer students are dropping out.

GT was getting hurt in ratings because of it's retention rate. They had to change to stay "competitive"

 

[RonJohn]

After some googling, I found a document summarizing GTAA finances [1]. Page 17 gives a summary of the summary. "Institutional support" for 2017 is only ~3% of revenue. However, that doesn't include "student athletic fees" (~8%) and "premium lease fees" (~14%) among some others that one could argue is something the school provides. Actually, I find it questionable that GTAA can claim lease fees as revenue, since I would argue the school owns the estate, not GTAA. The closest corresponding expenses are "utilities" and "operation, maintenance, and plant," which the sum is less than half of the lease revenue. A more in-depth reading of the document may justify or raise more suspicions, but I leave that to the interested reader.

[1] http://fin-services.gatech.edu/sites/default/files/images/gtaa_final_financial_statements.pdf

According to the University System of Georgia: " “Subsidy” is the sum of direct institutional support and student fees and does not include the value of out-of-state tuition waivers." The 10% includes student fees and direct institutional support. https://www.usg.edu/policymanual/section4/C331

According to the document that you linked to: "Premium lease fees are contributions tied to seat location in areas with upgraded benefits in Bobby Dodd Stadium and McCamish Pavilion." This is the TECH Fund donations for seat location that is added to the ticket price. It is basically a premium ticket price that used to be tax deductible.

USA Today has a chart of NCAA school finances that shows the revenue and expenses by category: http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

 

[Animal02]

Please show some evidence he did do anything for gtaa.
Did he insist that the AA and gtaa jointly raise $ for big multi purpose facilities.?;
That edge center could be 10 stories.
What a view.

Did the AA ever share their list of Alums.

So give a list of what he did?

Can he even insist the AA do anything? Lots of assumption s being made.

 

[pbrown520]

Please show some evidence he did do anything for gtaa.
Did he insist that the AA and gtaa jointly raise $ for big multi purpose facilities.?;
That edge center could be 10 stories.
What a view.

Did the AA ever share their list of Alums.

So give a list of what he did?

Point is, half that stuff isn't his job. Pretty simple to understand. Did he will fully not provide those lists? How is the president he supposes to control the funding of something like the edge center? Did he actively keep it from being 10 stories or was it a matter of the GTAA not getting it done fund raising?

Look I don't like Peterson specifically, I just don't think it's the job of the President to be the athletics advocate. Again, he shouldn't hinder them, but the focus of the office of the president is the academic well being of the school. He should help athletics in any way he can that doesn't impact academics. There's a lot of posters on here who think that his primary focus should be getting millions of dollars for athletics - that's what the AD is for. Besides what makes people think that the president would even be good at approaching donors or fund raising for athletics?

 

[Animal02]

Point is, half that stuff isn't his job. Pretty simple to understand. Did he will fully not provide those lists? How is the president he supposes to control the funding of something like the edge center? Did he actively keep it from being 10 stories or was it a matter of the GTAA not getting it done fund raising?

Look I don't like Peterson specifically, I just don't think it's the job of the President to be the athletics advocate. Again, he shouldn't hinder them, but the focus of the office of the president is the academic well being of the school. He should help athletics in any way he can that doesn't impact academics. There's a lot of posters on here who think that his primary focus should be getting millions of dollars for athletics - that's what the AD is for. Besides what makes people think that the president would even be good at approaching donors or fund raising for athletics?

If it is anything like my wife's University....the primary role (though not explicitly stated....but we'll understood) is getting millions of dollars for the university ....not the athletic association.

 

[gthxxxx]

GT was getting hurt in ratings because of it's retention rate. They had to change to stay "competitive"

I understand that reasoning, but I disagree with it. Comparing my undergraduate and graduate attendance at GT separated by about a decade, I was blown away by the increased overcrowding on campus, including classes. GT needs to considerably increase their admissions standards if they aren't going to weed people out to reduce the overpopulation. However, with U.S.'s nonuniform high schools' standards/evaluations combined with human mental growth uncertainty during late teens, this is a costly and inefficient approach. GT could also expand their footprint to address the growing student population, but that comes with its own difficulties, such as traffic routing, scheduling, qualified faculty recruitment, and expenses. They could also get rid of athletics and re-purpose that land/facilities for academics [ducks for cover].

 

[Animal02]

I understand that reasoning, but I disagree with it. Comparing my undergraduate and graduate attendance at GT separated by about a decade, I was blown away by the increased overcrowding on campus, including classes. GT needs to considerably increase their admissions standards if they aren't going to weed people out to reduce the overpopulation. However, with U.S.'s nonuniform high schools' standards/evaluations combined with human mental growth uncertainty during late teens, this is a costly and inefficient approach. GT could also expand their footprint to address the growing student population, but that comes with its own difficulties, such as traffic routing, scheduling, qualified faculty recruitment, and expenses. They could also get rid of athletics and re-purpose that land/facilities for academics [ducks for cover].

It was sad to see all the green space gone on campus. I liked the survival of the fitest.....out of 500 that started in my Arch class, less than 50 of us graduated. Saw the difference when I got my second degree at another Uni that was selective admit and retain......some of those that slipped through were really bad.

 

[gthxxxx]

They actually did already have a nominal school of engineering, but what the BOR did was make it "significant".

I don't know what nominal means... I remember when I applied to UGA as one of my backups for undergrad that I had to apply to their school of science since that was the only school they had close to engineering/technology.