Poll - What is a reasonable amount of time for Collins to be given?

What is a reasonable amount of time for Collins to be given?

  • Get rid of him now, seen enough.

    Votes: 9 2.1%
  • Get rid of him after signing day since I'm not an upfront person.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • After 2020 season (2 years)

    Votes: 30 6.9%
  • After 2021 season (3 years)

    Votes: 141 32.4%
  • After 2022 season (4 years)

    Votes: 146 33.6%
  • After 2023 season (5 years)

    Votes: 75 17.2%
  • End of contract - 2025 - 7 years

    Votes: 17 3.9%
  • As long as Johnson - 11 years

    Votes: 8 1.8%
  • Lifetime - I'm into pain which is why I follow GT football.

    Votes: 9 2.1%

  • Total voters
    435
  • Poll closed .

Sebastian GT

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
331
Let’s play a hypothetical game to test this. Let’s say we finish 2-10 this year. We also go 2-10 next year against a tough schedule. Year 3 we go 3-9 and year 4 we go 4-8. UGA beats us by 28+ every year. Attendance has fallen to historically low levels and recruiting is beginning to fall off because there is no positivity around the program at all. You give Collins a 5th year?
Unless you or someone else are going to write a big check he probably gets a 5th year. Take into account that going into year four he probably gets a one year extension for recruiting purposes. What I can definitely see happening should your scenario play out is that Collins is forced to change the coordinator for whichever side of the ball is most to blame for the won/loss record. No one will be happy if we are still that bad after year four so the writing will be on the wall but due to money I doubt he would be fired until after year 5.
 

wvGT11

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,357
Collins and TStan chose this route.....I.E. essentially throwing away a season or two....though the goal posts appear to be moving now to 3-4. They have done this at their own peril. Fans and alumni will not tolerate successive sub .500 seasons like that.
More so Tstan and some of the fans chose this
I was a fan of CPJ and the option, but I recall hearing over and over the last few years on here that donors and alumni wanted us to ditch the option and that it was bad for recruiting
Also heard that we need a younger more energetic coach

Yet here we are with a guy that gives us that and so it turns out, as people said it was going to turn out bad for a season or two

Sure Collins could have hired an option based coordinator but that would have only been a short term fix

No one is happy about this season, it hurts and it's hurting the fan base
But I'm not sure there is much more of an option unless we had kept that same style offense or at least an option hybrid

Real question I guess, is knowing the hole that the program is in financially for Collins contract, part of his buyout at Temple and I think we also paid cpj some. Can we afford to see the fan base drop off if next year and the year after are meh or just cut our losses and replace

Next I just want Collins to tone down on the salesman stuff and just be honest with us, sure it looks good for recruits
But selling us on hype and culture , juice and dancing and effort, when in the end the product on the field / record doesn't.match that isn't helping

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Last edited:

jacket_fan

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
759
Location
Milton, Georgia
Voted 3 years in the poll. Future season results are unknown, so it is hard to commit.

As a longtime fan, I was going to vote "Lifetime - I'm into pain which is why I follow GT football." Loved that one.

One of the previous comments was that CPJ did more with the talent he had than any other coach. Does the corollary mean that CGC is doing less with the talent he has?

Sorry for the previous comment, I am still shell shocked after the VT game.
 

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,347
Location
Auburn, AL
One of the previous comments was that CPJ did more with the talent he had than any other coach. Does the corollary mean that CGC is doing less with the talent he has?

I think CPJ was one of the best game day coaches in modern times. But he was not that great at overall football operations. CGC is better at football operations, but so far, not that great coaching a game. The pendulum has simply … swung.
 

Animal02

Banned
Messages
6,269
Location
Southeastern Michigan
More so Tstan and some of the fans chose this
I was a fan of CPJ and the option, but I recall hearing over and over the last few years on here that donors and alumni wanted us to ditch the option and that it was bad for recruiting
Also heard that we need a younger more energetic coach

Yet here we are with a guy that gives us that and so it turns out, as people said it was going to turn out bad for a season or two

Sure Collins could have hired an option based coordinator but that would have only been a short term fix

No one is happy about this season, it hurts and it's hurting the fan base
But I'm not sure there is much more of an option unless we had kept that same style offense or at least an option hybrid

Real question I guess, is knowing the hole that the program is in financially for Collins contract, part of his buyout at Temple and I think we also paid cpj some. Can we afford to see the fan base drop off if next year and the year after are meh or just cut our losses and replace

Next I just want Collins to tone down on the salesman stuff and just be honest with us, sure it looks good for recruits
But selling us on hype and culture , juice and dancing and effort, when in the end the product on the field / record doesn't.match that isn't helping

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
The buyout will pale compared to the loss of the fanbase. It is comical seeing people say that he will be here for at least 5. "IF" he goes 2-10 or 3-9 this year and next year, and goes 4-8 in year three and not show much competitiveness, GT would be the laughing stock of the country to keep him.

This is not the pros......you don't play for next year, angle at draft picks etc. You win now. These kids have a 4-5 year window (some three) They are not going to be thinking where the program might be with hopey changey in 7 years.
 

Animal02

Banned
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6,269
Location
Southeastern Michigan
I think CPJ was one of the best game day coaches in modern times. But he was not that great at overall football operations. CGC is better at football operations, but so far, not that great coaching a game. The pendulum has simply … swung.
Whether he is better at operations overall is yet to be seen. Better at hyping no doubt......but operations also means getting recruits that can A) get admitted, B stay eligible academically, C. APR, D stay out of other trouble., etc, etc. Not enough data to make a judgement on all that yet.
 

ScGold

Banned
Messages
532
Whether he is better at operations overall is yet to be seen. Better at hyping no doubt......but operations also means getting recruits that can A) get admitted, B stay eligible academically, C. APR, D stay out of other trouble., etc, etc. Not enough data to make a judgement on all that yet.
I believe we had more attrition during the Johnson era than anytime in school history from grades to weed. So I assuming you meant that Johnson was never making a mess of the program? Please stop trying to prop up the coach that QUIT.
 

JorgeJonas

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,147
I believe we had more attrition during the Johnson era than anytime in school history from grades to weed. So I assuming you meant that Johnson was never making a mess of the program? Please stop trying to prop up the coach that QUIT.
In which an individual is never allowed to leave his job.

“Sir, Billy hasn’t breathed in a month, his body is purple, and it really smells.”

“Someone get Billy’s *** back on the line! We’ve got orders to ship.”
 

Jim Prather

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,044
Here is what I keep coming back to... Ga Southern did not have this problem... When Jeff Monken left for Army, they went out and found a coach who kept them competitive - in fact had a great first season... To top it all off, it was at the same time they were moving from FCS to FBS (I still prefer 1-A and 1-AA) , so they were working with reduced number of scholarships relative to all their competition... They would have had a REALLY valid excuse to have a couple of bad seasons.
It simply feels like, at some point, a decision was made to sacrifice 1-2 seasons -- but I can't figure out the rationale behind it. Is it hubris -- they thought they could win anyway... Is it marketing -- "we're pro-style offense now". Or is it as simple as they did not know how to best utilize the available talent.
This last one is what scares me. With the first two, there is at least the possibility of self-correction over time. The last one indicates a fundamental flaw which may not be fixable...
Oh well, I guess it doesn't really matter. In two years, we will have the results to this grand "Recruiting vs. Scheme" experiment...
 

wvGT11

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,357
Here is what I keep coming back to... Ga Southern did not have this problem... When Jeff Monken left for Army, they went out and found a coach who kept them competitive - in fact had a great first season... To top it all off, it was at the same time they were moving from FCS to FBS (I still prefer 1-A and 1-AA) , so they were working with reduced number of scholarships relative to all their competition... They would have had a REALLY valid excuse to have a couple of bad seasons.
It simply feels like, at some point, a decision was made to sacrifice 1-2 seasons -- but I can't figure out the rationale behind it. Is it hubris -- they thought they could win anyway... Is it marketing -- "we're pro-style offense now". Or is it as simple as they did not know how to best utilize the available talent.
This last one is what scares me. With the first two, there is at least the possibility of self-correction over time. The last one indicates a fundamental flaw which may not be fixable...
Oh well, I guess it doesn't really matter. In two years, we will have the results to this grand "Recruiting vs. Scheme" experiment...
The think is Georgia southern went to Willie fritz after Monken which ran a similar run heavy option based offense, out of the gun if I remember.
Now they aren't running that if I recall


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stech81

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,962
Location
Woodstock Georgia
Here is what I keep coming back to... Ga Southern did not have this problem... When Jeff Monken left for Army, they went out and found a coach who kept them competitive - in fact had a great first season... To top it all off, it was at the same time they were moving from FCS to FBS (I still prefer 1-A and 1-AA) , so they were working with reduced number of scholarships relative to all their competition... They would have had a REALLY valid excuse to have a couple of bad seasons.
It simply feels like, at some point, a decision was made to sacrifice 1-2 seasons -- but I can't figure out the rationale behind it. Is it hubris -- they thought they could win anyway... Is it marketing -- "we're pro-style offense now". Or is it as simple as they did not know how to best utilize the available talent.
This last one is what scares me. With the first two, there is at least the possibility of self-correction over time. The last one indicates a fundamental flaw which may not be fixable...
Oh well, I guess it doesn't really matter. In two years, we will have the results to this grand "Recruiting vs. Scheme" experiment...
Well at Georgia Southern They did have problems After CPJ they hired CPJ buddy Mike Sewak and he run the same offense then they hired Van Gorder who changes from the 3O and he went 3-8.
 

Oakland

Helluva Engineer
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1,290
Location
Georgia
Whether he is better at operations overall is yet to be seen. Better at hyping no doubt......but operations also means getting recruits that can A) get admitted, B stay eligible academically, C. APR, D stay out of other trouble., etc, etc. Not enough data to make a judgement on all that yet.
The unknown really worries me and you made some good points. I hope Collins was the right choice. As I said before, I bought into all of the hype because I trusted that Stansbury and others made the right choice. When Collin's name came out as one of the candidates for the job, I was super excited. Frankly today I see an advertising salesman and not a strong captain. This Thursday night worries me. I'll be there, but I don't know how many of our fans will join in. Stansbury needs fan support and I've noticed that the fund raising for Intercollegiate Athletics Fundraising Initiatives has not be updated recently. I hope I'm wrong on that.
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,125
Location
Augusta, Georgia
This may be a TLDR ramble for some.

In the end, it comes down to this: we are stuck with CGC for at least three years, barring the wheels completely coming off the bus during that time.

When CPJ retired, I initially hoped we would hire Monken from Army to continue the option for a couple of reasons:

1. I like the offense as it does allow us to punch above our weight, and
2. It would minimize the drop off that we are currently experiencing

When CGC was hired, I wasn't initially a fan. I was hoping for Elliott from Clemson once it became obvious that we intended to break from the option.

Since the hire, I have come to realize that moving away from the option was probably a good move. While Monken, Bohannon, and Coach N are good, they are not CPJ yet. CPJ had over a decade of experience whereas, other than Coach N, the resumes of the others are relatively short. The idea that we would "plug and chug" with an option coach is foolish. Would we be better off today than we are now? Probably. Would we be better off in three to four years? Maybe. Would those coaches be able to hit the highs that CPJ hit? Who knows. This was as good a time as any to make the offensive switch. The problem with switching is that anyone with a modicum of foresight saw this trainwreck season coming. All the publications forecast this, but our fans here said they were nuts and were ignoring history. That, IMO, is why we have such frustration with CGC right now. We had unrealistic expectations coming into this season. I know I tried to pump the brakes preseason and have been on record as saying I thought 3-4 wins was realistic, but I was told time and again we were a 6-7 win team minimum.

I am still not sold on Collins. He may be the next Bobby Ross, or he could be the next B*** L****, or most likely, he will fall somewhere in the middle. He came with an excellent reputation but a very short HC resume. It remains to be seen how good a HC he can be at the P5 level. He has improved recruiting, but not to the point it needs to be at yet. (Almost any non-option coach would improve recruiting, we just don't know by how much) We are seeing some great things recruiting wise, but we will need to see even better if we want to compete with uga and Clemson routinely. (And if we don't we need to be honest and have that discussion) We cannot afford to recruit in the 25-35 range, we will need to be top 25, preferably top 20, fairly routinely to get the talent needed to be competitive running similar offenses to the teams we are playing. If CGC can get our recruiting to that level in the next 2-3 years, but the wins aren't coming, I'd keep CGC and spend the money on coordinators who can actually coach, like Clemson with Dabo in the early years.

I'll be honest. I don't like the snake oil salesman presentation Collins is constantly using. I was taught that you kept your mouth shut and let your results speak for you. All this money down, elite, juice, etc, nonsense drives me nuts, but I understand why he is doing it. For the last 11 years GT had a brand and an identity. Everyone associated GT with the 3O, and fairly or not, we were judged by that identity. For many, that's the first thing they think of when GT is mentioned. Collins HAS to change that quickly in order to recruit his players into the system. That brand has to change for us to be successful. For those of us who loved the 3O under CPJ, hearing him talk about change is hard, mainly because he's not very good at presenting himself. (For someone who is so big on brand, he needs a get back coach for press conferences...) Regardless, he's calling the shots, and for the most part, he's getting where we need to be. This season was always going to be a dumpster fire, so I am not looking at results on the field for his validation just yet. Likewise, I won't use the W-L record next year to judge him.

I think we need to judge CGC solely on recruiting for the next three years. I think the 2020 class needs to be top 30-35 range or better. Then he needs to have two straight years in the top 25. We have to be honest and realize this is a complete rebuild, so winning games is going to be rare for a bit, but CGC was hired to recruit, so, IMO, I will judge him on how well he recruits for the next 3-4years. Top 40 won't cut it. Top 30 won't get us over the 7 win hump. He needs to get us to the promised land WRT recruiting, or else I feel we need to find a better actual coach to maximize the talent we can get. Now, like I said, it may turn out that he's the next Bobby Ross and is a heck of a coach. I have my doubts he is that good a game day coach, but we don't need him to be if he can recruit at an elite, juicy level. At that point we just need to find the best OC/DC available and pay them well.
 

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
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5,347
Location
Auburn, AL
This may be a TLDR ramble for some.

In the end, it comes down to this: we are stuck with CGC for at least three years, barring the wheels completely coming off the bus during that time.

When CPJ retired, I initially hoped we would hire Monken from Army to continue the option for a couple of reasons:

1. I like the offense as it does allow us to punch above our weight, and
2. It would minimize the drop off that we are currently experiencing

When CGC was hired, I wasn't initially a fan. I was hoping for Elliott from Clemson once it became obvious that we intended to break from the option.

Since the hire, I have come to realize that moving away from the option was probably a good move. While Monken, Bohannon, and Coach N are good, they are not CPJ yet. CPJ had over a decade of experience whereas, other than Coach N, the resumes of the others are relatively short. The idea that we would "plug and chug" with an option coach is foolish. Would we be better off today than we are now? Probably. Would we be better off in three to four years? Maybe. Would those coaches be able to hit the highs that CPJ hit? Who knows. This was as good a time as any to make the offensive switch. The problem with switching is that anyone with a modicum of foresight saw this trainwreck season coming. All the publications forecast this, but our fans here said they were nuts and were ignoring history. That, IMO, is why we have such frustration with CGC right now. We had unrealistic expectations coming into this season. I know I tried to pump the brakes preseason and have been on record as saying I thought 3-4 wins was realistic, but I was told time and again we were a 6-7 win team minimum.

I am still not sold on Collins. He may be the next Bobby Ross, or he could be the next B*** L****, or most likely, he will fall somewhere in the middle. He came with an excellent reputation but a very short HC resume. It remains to be seen how good a HC he can be at the P5 level. He has improved recruiting, but not to the point it needs to be at yet. (Almost any non-option coach would improve recruiting, we just don't know by how much) We are seeing some great things recruiting wise, but we will need to see even better if we want to compete with uga and Clemson routinely. (And if we don't we need to be honest and have that discussion) We cannot afford to recruit in the 25-35 range, we will need to be top 25, preferably top 20, fairly routinely to get the talent needed to be competitive running similar offenses to the teams we are playing. If CGC can get our recruiting to that level in the next 2-3 years, but the wins aren't coming, I'd keep CGC and spend the money on coordinators who can actually coach, like Clemson with Dabo in the early years.

I'll be honest. I don't like the snake oil salesman presentation Collins is constantly using. I was taught that you kept your mouth shut and let your results speak for you. All this money down, elite, juice, etc, nonsense drives me nuts, but I understand why he is doing it. For the last 11 years GT had a brand and an identity. Everyone associated GT with the 3O, and fairly or not, we were judged by that identity. For many, that's the first thing they think of when GT is mentioned. Collins HAS to change that quickly in order to recruit his players into the system. That brand has to change for us to be successful. For those of us who loved the 3O under CPJ, hearing him talk about change is hard, mainly because he's not very good at presenting himself. (For someone who is so big on brand, he needs a get back coach for press conferences...) Regardless, he's calling the shots, and for the most part, he's getting where we need to be. This season was always going to be a dumpster fire, so I am not looking at results on the field for his validation just yet. Likewise, I won't use the W-L record next year to judge him.

I think we need to judge CGC solely on recruiting for the next three years. I think the 2020 class needs to be top 30-35 range or better. Then he needs to have two straight years in the top 25. We have to be honest and realize this is a complete rebuild, so winning games is going to be rare for a bit, but CGC was hired to recruit, so, IMO, I will judge him on how well he recruits for the next 3-4years. Top 40 won't cut it. Top 30 won't get us over the 7 win hump. He needs to get us to the promised land WRT recruiting, or else I feel we need to find a better actual coach to maximize the talent we can get. Now, like I said, it may turn out that he's the next Bobby Ross and is a heck of a coach. I have my doubts he is that good a game day coach, but we don't need him to be if he can recruit at an elite, juicy level. At that point we just need to find the best OC/DC available and pay them well.

Thank you for an extremely thoughtful, well-written comment.

Like you, I would like to see Collins just say that … "My goal for the next 3 years is to recruit, minimize on field errors (e.g., penalties, missed assignments,, etc) and develop players through strength and conditioning. Three measures.

As to all the hype, he needs to stop. Let his assistants do that if they must.
 

Jim Prather

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,044
Well at Georgia Southern They did have problems After CPJ they hired CPJ buddy Mike Sewak and he run the same offense then they hired Van Gorder who changes from the 3O and he went 3-8.

You are absolutely correct... Ga Southern is really the template to show how the choice of coach can make the transition away from the triple option offense either seamless or brutal...
 

THWG

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,188
Where I disagree with you are two areas.....first, this train wreck did not have to happen. A really good coached would have worked with what he had.
Second, it is not just recruiting. Ultimately it will be his win loss record and how competitive we during that time.
Or you can look at it this way, a really good coach retired because of what he had to work with.
 

wvGT11

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,357
Where I disagree with you are two areas.....first, this train wreck did not have to happen. A really good coached would have worked with what he had.
Second, it is not just recruiting. Ultimately it will be his win loss record and how competitive we during that time.
Agree to disagree here
The train wreck didn't have to happen sure
But again as has been said, the only way this wouldn't have happened is had we hired an option coach like monken, but that's a short term fix, at some point we have to transition from the 3o as there are only a good few left
It was either keep the status quo or change it

Even if Collins had hired a different o coordinator that ran an option offense that would still be short term

I agree that a good coach would work with what we have, and I feel like coach hasn't mentioned a few times this. We have a run heavy offense that sucks at throwing, but at some point good or bad our guys just need in game experience with throwing.

Its really down to what's better long run for the program vs short term



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GTJake

Banned
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2,066
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Fernandina Beach, Florida
It depends on what level of success ... by Year 3 we need to be competitive across the board and in bowl contention victory-wise, by Year 4 in contention for an ACC Championship.
IMO, the biggest thing is to develop a QB for his offense, whether that player is currently on the roster or we have to go out and find him ...
 
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