Poll - What is a reasonable amount of time for Collins to be given?

[Jd89]

I think CPJ was one of the best game day coaches in modern times. But he was not that great at overall football operations. CGC is better at football operations, but so far, not that great coaching a game. The pendulum has simply … swung.

So I know a ton of folks thinks that CPJ's coaching was unprecedented, but if you look at the stats, it wasn't as great as it seems:
- His winning record percentage was 0.580 with a bowl record of 0.333, while Chan Gailey (whom he replaced) was 0.579 with a 0.400 bowl record.
- He is 4th in all time wins at Tech and is also 4th in length of tenure as coach, which makes sense.
- The 2008 and 2009 season, both of which were great except for the bowls, were mainly composed of Chan players (look at the roster).
- Assuming mainly his recruits thereafter, his record was 0.543 (credit to CPJ for great years 2014 and 2016, stellar). This record puts him below O'Leary and Chan and on par with...Bobby Ross (who won our last natty and then promptly left) and Bill Fulcher.

So the actual stats would indicate that didn't gain all that much from replacing Chan. I was so ready for Chan to leave and I thought CPJ would bring a spark or something fun to the Flats (which he did). At the end of the day, I wanted a better record, which we did get a few years, but overall, CPJ was not all that much better than prior coaches.

CPJ did a really good job of taking his scheme and adjusting it to larger players until he switched to his players. However, I don't think it is as easy to transition the other way...the smaller linemen can't provide pass protection like big guys, so we are seeing some of that. When talking about the transition from CPJ to CGC, you first need to look at the offensive line average weight:

2018 GT: CPJ's system needs nimble and fast OL, no pass protection needed = 286 lbs.
2019 Temple OL (I couldn't find the starting lineup for 2018 but 2019 is probably a good reference for our current coaching staff) = 300 lbs
For teams with QBs that have great stats (although these OLs are destined for diabetes if they are not careful):
2019 Clemson = 325 lbs
2019 LSU = 321 lbs
2019 Oklahoma = 324 lbs
2019 UGA = 334 lbs
2019 Alabama = 324 lbs

I anticipate that all of the OL folks we are recruiting will averages us up a good bit from 286 lbs.

Granted, the team is making terrible mistakes and that lies on the coaches in many respects for not drilling a few of the fundamentals. I just think it is way too early to even call how long he will be here since we truly are at ground zero.

 

[ScGold]

In which an individual is never allowed to leave his job.

“Sir, Billy hasn’t breathed in a month, his body is purple, and it really smells.”

“Someone get Billy’s *** back on the line! We’ve got orders to ship.”

I'm responding to the point he made about what it takes to make him happy. The unrealistic perception some have is sad.

 

[ScGold]

So I know a ton of folks thinks that CPJ's coaching was unprecedented, but if you look at the stats, it wasn't as great as it seems:
- His winning record percentage was 0.580 with a bowl record of 0.333, while Chan Gailey (whom he replaced) was 0.579 with a 0.400 bowl record.
- He is 4th in all time wins at Tech and is also 4th in length of tenure as coach, which makes sense.
- The 2008 and 2009 season, both of which were great except for the bowls, were mainly composed of Chan players (look at the roster).
- Assuming mainly his recruits thereafter, his record was 0.543 (credit to CPJ for great years 2014 and 2016, stellar). This record puts him below O'Leary and Chan and on par with...Bobby Ross (who won our last natty and then promptly left) and Bill Fulcher.

So the actual stats would indicate that didn't gain all that much from replacing Chan. I was so ready for Chan to leave and I thought CPJ would bring a spark or something fun to the Flats (which he did). At the end of the day, I wanted a better record, which we did get a few years, but overall, CPJ was not all that much better than prior coaches.

CPJ did a really good job of taking his scheme and adjusting it to larger players until he switched to his players. However, I don't think it is as easy to transition the other way...the smaller linemen can't provide pass protection like big guys, so we are seeing some of that. When talking about the transition from CPJ to CGC, you first need to look at the offensive line average weight:

2018 GT: CPJ's system needs nimble and fast OL, no pass protection needed = 286 lbs.
2019 Temple OL (I couldn't find the starting lineup for 2018 but 2019 is probably a good reference for our current coaching staff) = 300 lbs
For teams with QBs that have great stats (although these OLs are destined for diabetes if they are not careful):
2019 Clemson = 325 lbs
2019 LSU = 321 lbs
2019 Oklahoma = 324 lbs
2019 UGA = 334 lbs
2019 Alabama = 324 lbs

I anticipate that all of the OL folks we are recruiting will averages us up a good bit from 286 lbs.

Granted, the team is making terrible mistakes and that lies on the coaches in many respects for not drilling a few of the fundamentals. I just think it is way too early to even call how long he will be here since we truly are at ground zero.

Ur about to liven up the crowd he didn't have one advantage in fact the Institute was against him. Be careful hope u can handle the wrath?

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I'm responding to the point he made about what it takes to make him happy. The unrealistic perception some have is sad.

Well, when you call someone who retired, which is allowable and usually encouraged in our free society, a quitter, using ALL CAPS no less, you somewhat confuse the message. Not sure that was necessary to make your point.

 

[Vespidae]

So I know a ton of folks thinks that CPJ's coaching was unprecedented, but if you look at the stats, it wasn't as great as it seems:
- His winning record percentage was 0.580 with a bowl record of 0.333, while Chan Gailey (whom he replaced) was 0.579 with a 0.400 bowl record.
- He is 4th in all time wins at Tech and is also 4th in length of tenure as coach, which makes sense.
- The 2008 and 2009 season, both of which were great except for the bowls, were mainly composed of Chan players (look at the roster).
- Assuming mainly his recruits thereafter, his record was 0.543 (credit to CPJ for great years 2014 and 2016, stellar). This record puts him below O'Leary and Chan and on par with...Bobby Ross (who won our last natty and then promptly left) and Bill Fulcher.

So the actual stats would indicate that didn't gain all that much from replacing Chan. I was so ready for Chan to leave and I thought CPJ would bring a spark or something fun to the Flats (which he did). At the end of the day, I wanted a better record, which we did get a few years, but overall, CPJ was not all that much better than prior coaches.

CPJ did a really good job of taking his scheme and adjusting it to larger players until he switched to his players. However, I don't think it is as easy to transition the other way...the smaller linemen can't provide pass protection like big guys, so we are seeing some of that. When talking about the transition from CPJ to CGC, you first need to look at the offensive line average weight:

2018 GT: CPJ's system needs nimble and fast OL, no pass protection needed = 286 lbs.
2019 Temple OL (I couldn't find the starting lineup for 2018 but 2019 is probably a good reference for our current coaching staff) = 300 lbs
For teams with QBs that have great stats (although these OLs are destined for diabetes if they are not careful):
2019 Clemson = 325 lbs
2019 LSU = 321 lbs
2019 Oklahoma = 324 lbs
2019 UGA = 334 lbs
2019 Alabama = 324 lbs

I anticipate that all of the OL folks we are recruiting will averages us up a good bit from 286 lbs.

Granted, the team is making terrible mistakes and that lies on the coaches in many respects for not drilling a few of the fundamentals. I just think it is way too early to even call how long he will be here since we truly are at ground zero.

I see your point on his overall record and think it’s fair. I mean, for the 60 min of the game, he was excellent for clock management, play calling, etc. sometimes you don’t win ... but that’s what I was referring to.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

I believe we had more attrition during the Johnson era than anytime in school history from grades to weed. So I assuming you meant that Johnson was never making a mess of the program? Please stop trying to prop up the coach that QUIT.

I don't recall seeing any posts by you last year, but I just may have missed or skipped over them. But I would be willing to bet that you wanted CPJ gone, so why do you emphasize the word "quit" in bold? He didn't QUIT; he retired, as all good coaches do sooner or later.

 

[WreckinGT]

So I know a ton of folks thinks that CPJ's coaching was unprecedented, but if you look at the stats, it wasn't as great as it seems:
- His winning record percentage was 0.580 with a bowl record of 0.333, while Chan Gailey (whom he replaced) was 0.579 with a 0.400 bowl record.
- He is 4th in all time wins at Tech and is also 4th in length of tenure as coach, which makes sense.
- The 2008 and 2009 season, both of which were great except for the bowls, were mainly composed of Chan players (look at the roster).
- Assuming mainly his recruits thereafter, his record was 0.543 (credit to CPJ for great years 2014 and 2016, stellar). This record puts him below O'Leary and Chan and on par with...Bobby Ross (who won our last natty and then promptly left) and Bill Fulcher.

So the actual stats would indicate that didn't gain all that much from replacing Chan. I was so ready for Chan to leave and I thought CPJ would bring a spark or something fun to the Flats (which he did). At the end of the day, I wanted a better record, which we did get a few years, but overall, CPJ was not all that much better than prior coaches.

CPJ did a really good job of taking his scheme and adjusting it to larger players until he switched to his players. However, I don't think it is as easy to transition the other way...the smaller linemen can't provide pass protection like big guys, so we are seeing some of that. When talking about the transition from CPJ to CGC, you first need to look at the offensive line average weight:

2018 GT: CPJ's system needs nimble and fast OL, no pass protection needed = 286 lbs.
2019 Temple OL (I couldn't find the starting lineup for 2018 but 2019 is probably a good reference for our current coaching staff) = 300 lbs
For teams with QBs that have great stats (although these OLs are destined for diabetes if they are not careful):
2019 Clemson = 325 lbs
2019 LSU = 321 lbs
2019 Oklahoma = 324 lbs
2019 UGA = 334 lbs
2019 Alabama = 324 lbs

I anticipate that all of the OL folks we are recruiting will averages us up a good bit from 286 lbs.

Granted, the team is making terrible mistakes and that lies on the coaches in many respects for not drilling a few of the fundamentals. I just think it is way too early to even call how long he will be here since we truly are at ground zero.

If you believe everyone on here, CPJ was doing that with FCS level talent while Chan had a team loaded with NFL talent so you should have some respect for his game day coaching ability shouldn't you?

 

[JorgeJonas]

So I know a ton of folks thinks that CPJ's coaching was unprecedented, but if you look at the stats, it wasn't as great as it seems:
- His winning record percentage was 0.580 with a bowl record of 0.333, while Chan Gailey (whom he replaced) was 0.579 with a 0.400 bowl record.
- He is 4th in all time wins at Tech and is also 4th in length of tenure as coach, which makes sense.
- The 2008 and 2009 season, both of which were great except for the bowls, were mainly composed of Chan players (look at the roster).
- Assuming mainly his recruits thereafter, his record was 0.543 (credit to CPJ for great years 2014 and 2016, stellar). This record puts him below O'Leary and Chan and on par with...Bobby Ross (who won our last natty and then promptly left) and Bill Fulcher.

So the actual stats would indicate that didn't gain all that much from replacing Chan. I was so ready for Chan to leave and I thought CPJ would bring a spark or something fun to the Flats (which he did). At the end of the day, I wanted a better record, which we did get a few years, but overall, CPJ was not all that much better than prior coaches.

CPJ did a really good job of taking his scheme and adjusting it to larger players until he switched to his players. However, I don't think it is as easy to transition the other way...the smaller linemen can't provide pass protection like big guys, so we are seeing some of that. When talking about the transition from CPJ to CGC, you first need to look at the offensive line average weight:

2018 GT: CPJ's system needs nimble and fast OL, no pass protection needed = 286 lbs.
2019 Temple OL (I couldn't find the starting lineup for 2018 but 2019 is probably a good reference for our current coaching staff) = 300 lbs
For teams with QBs that have great stats (although these OLs are destined for diabetes if they are not careful):
2019 Clemson = 325 lbs
2019 LSU = 321 lbs
2019 Oklahoma = 324 lbs
2019 UGA = 334 lbs
2019 Alabama = 324 lbs

I anticipate that all of the OL folks we are recruiting will averages us up a good bit from 286 lbs.

Granted, the team is making terrible mistakes and that lies on the coaches in many respects for not drilling a few of the fundamentals. I just think it is way too early to even call how long he will be here since we truly are at ground zero.

So it looks like we’re relitigating this issue. The calculus is this: if you think we can be consistent 10-12 game winner, Johnson was likely not the coach for you (though he was damn close to that). I get that, and that’s fine with me. If you think the likelihood of us ever getting to that level is remote (as I do), then you look for something that maximizes your boom years. I think Johnson did that. The interesting thing about 2008 and 2009 is that with Chan we were mediocre with a handful of NFL players, but with Johnson we were #elite. This may show that it’s going to be difficult to get a critical mass of NFL guys to reach the level we all want, but you might think Chan just wasn’t the right game day coach to maximize the players he had. I also think the winning percentage in the absence of distribution is lacking. It comes down to personal preference, but I would prefer going 11-3 and then 3-9 to going 7-6 both seasons, and since I don’t think 11-3 every season is likely, I prefer the coach who gives me the 11 win season twice a decade to the one who never gives it to me. Can Collins do it? I don’t know, but the early returns aren’t great.

Augusta made a really good point earlier, though, that we may have needed to change our offense because the pool of people needed to coach it was smaller. I hadn’t thought of that, but that’s really smart. Maybe we didn’t have a choice.

 

[JorgeJonas]

I believe we had more attrition during the Johnson era than anytime in school history from grades to weed. So I assuming you meant that Johnson was never making a mess of the program? Please stop trying to prop up the coach that QUIT.

The school is harder than it has ever been. Also, were you alive in the Spring of 2003, because hoo boy, have I got an attrition story for you.

 

[smokey_wasp]

So, the vast majority of folks fall within the 3-5 year range, which is pretty standard for coaches anywhere. Makes you wonder why we argue so much.

 

[Animal02]

Here is what I keep coming back to... Ga Southern did not have this problem... When Jeff Monken left for Army, they went out and found a coach who kept them competitive - in fact had a great first season... To top it all off, it was at the same time they were moving from FCS to FBS (I still prefer 1-A and 1-AA) , so they were working with reduced number of scholarships relative to all their competition... They would have had a REALLY valid excuse to have a couple of bad seasons.
It simply feels like, at some point, a decision was made to sacrifice 1-2 seasons -- but I can't figure out the rationale behind it. Is it hubris -- they thought they could win anyway... Is it marketing -- "we're pro-style offense now". Or is it as simple as they did not know how to best utilize the available talent.
This last one is what scares me. With the first two, there is at least the possibility of self-correction over time. The last one indicates a fundamental flaw which may not be fixable...
Oh well, I guess it doesn't really matter. In two years, we will have the results to this grand "Recruiting vs. Scheme" experiment...

Or, they purposely wanted to make the transition so bad there would never be a consideration of returning to an option coach.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Or, they purposely wanted to make the transition so bad there would never be a consideration of returning to an option coach.

Now, there is a conspiracy theory. There wasn't going to be a consideration of returning to that version of the option, anyway. And I guess ya'll know that, and it's the crux of what has bothered you so much about the change.

 

[georgytech]

3 years should tell us one way or another .
That will tell us if he is the kind of Coach that can take his'n & beat your's or take yours & beat his'n.

 

[FlatsLander]

So just a note, When CPJ got here was our team loaded with TO players. Nope. Nesbitt had no idea how to run it. etc. so please stop with the mammoth transition. All these players ran a similar offense to what we have now in high school.
So how long. Based on the schedule we should win 1 next year. But if we have a bunch of real close losses then that is improvement. If by year 3 we don't win 6, then he is gone at the end of 3. The stadium will be empty.

This is how I feel. CGC makes it sound like we've got a team full of converted basketball players with his transition/transformation talk. Fundamentals remain the same no matter what offense you're running. I do see how the struggles on the OL can happen with this type of philosophy change, but I would have thought what they're doing is simpler than under CPJ. Besides that, it's still block, tackle, run, throw, catch.
I'm not saying we should be in the top ten or something, but we should not be completely inept on offense.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Why can’t many of you understand that during press conferences, TV shows, radio interviews that Collins is not talking to you. His audience is young football players that he wants to get to come to GT. The day will come once the program is established that he can let up on the hype, but that time is not now. I also can’t understand why educated GT alums aren’t willing to give him a chance. It’s sad that smart people let their emotions get in the way of long term plans. So if we fire Collins and hire someone else we’ll now become a school with a reputation for being quick on the trigger and what player will want to play in that environment.

 

[FlatsLander]

So just a note, when CPJ got here was our team loaded with with NFL caliber players? Yes.

Ah, yes, Bebe, Dwyer, and ... apparently the rest of the offense? How many lineman were NFL caliber players?

 

[FlatsLander]

Jon Dwyer, Demaryious Thomas, Lucas Cox, Derrick Morgan, Michael Johnson, Morgan Burnett, Vance Walker, Darryl Richard, Mario Butler. That’s just the ones I know for sure reading the roster.

If DT was only successful because of single coverage he wouldn’t still be in the league.

I had to look it up Lucas Cox played in 4 preseason games in 2011 and caught 2 passes totaling 21 yards.

 

[stech81]

So, the vast majority of folks fall within the 3-5 year range, which is pretty standard for coaches anywhere. Makes you wonder why we argue so much.

We are Tech it's what we do drink and argue , anyone have a problem with it.

 

[DvilleJacket]

I've said this several times that Geoff is talking to future recruits. This guy was hired because he is a dang good recruiter which is what everyone complained we didn't have under Johnson. Nobody likes losing but we should've beat Citadel and came very close to beating Pitt and UVA. Team could easily be 5-7 and 6-6 team and nobody would be ready to fire the guy. It's gonna take time!

 

[stech81]

I had to look it up Lucas Cox played in 4 preseason games in 2011 and caught 2 passes totaling 21 yards.

Wait a minute if your going to look things up that just ain't fair no one can argue with you. Just stop looking things up it's an unfair to us too lazy to look.