Paul Johnson's job

[RonJohn]

So it's the Baylor way which leads to rape or...? Kinda taking that to an extreme aren't we?

As I seem to recall, CPJ got a nice bump in attendance when he was first hired because people wanted to support a new coach and we were actually winning (19 games in the first 2 seasons). When we returned to the "Chan Gailey Equilibrium" is when the casual fans and sidewalk fans started looking elsewhere for entertainment.

All of that is not the point though. IF you believe the fans need to come back first in order for GT to do anything, then you have a basic misunderstanding of how competition works. GT football is entertainment. That's it. It may mean more to some than others, but from the perspective of fighting for entertainment dollars, GT needs to compete with other forms of entertainment. If fans don't believe the cost outweighs the benefit, they simply will not come into the stadium...and it's their right to do that.

If Ford/Toyota/Chevrolet/Honda/etc or Samsung/Apple/LG/Nokia continue to put out sub standard products, consumers are under no obligation to continue buying their products in the hopes that it will lead to better products. That's simply just not how it works. You know the biggest impetus in Gailey's dismissal? It wasn't because his offense was boring or fans didn't like him. It was empty seats at BDS. When a coach starts costing the school potential $$$, the school will make a move to correct it. It's why Paul Hewitt had to go, and Brian Gregory (who ironically got fired after his best season) had to go on the basketball side. The school simply couldn't afford to have empty seats in their new basketball building.

As much as some dislike CPJ's offense, it won't be because of his offense that he gets fired. If fans refuse to come to games under his watch and it becomes a drain on the AA's bottom line, they will eventually make a move. CPJ can go 3-9 or 7-6 as long as fans show up and pay for tickets. Once fans quit showing up and paying for tickets is when CPJ is really in trouble.

I agree with the points about changing coaches when attendance goes down. However, I don't buy that the attendance issues for GT are purely because of the product on the field. The mutts even in the Ray Goof years had rises in attendance. Michigan, who was extremely upset with their coach and program dropped 5,000 tickets sold from 111,000 to 106,000. If you looked at the East and North stands Saturday, there was as much green as gold/white. Last year at the FSU game, there was at least as much burgundy as gold/white in the East and North stands. When the mutts are in BDS, there is as much red in the stands as gold/white. Sometimes I think the red outnumbers us at those games. That happens in good years and bad years.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Okay, so I'll try to respond to each point. Again, I'm not being adversarial, but I do think a bit of clarification is warranted.

With respect to Baylor, to me, at least, their situation shows that a non-thouroghbred can compete, but it must cut corners and take risks. Theirs backfired. Also, they made an investment in a stadium, which is not to be ignored.

To your second point, you are, of course, correct. If people view the marginal cost of an item as greater than the marginal benefit, they will not buy it. Simple stuff.

I break with you on your comparison to an automobile or technology company, though, and the reason is because sports teams include an emotional attachment that a commodity does not. It is irrelevant to me how the team performs; I will buy season tickets to football and basketball every year. Period.

The issue for me when I analyze a coach's performance - or anyone else's, for that matter - is to figure out whether they are getting the best results with the resources they have been given by their superiors. I am not certain Johnson has at all times, but I am less certain that there is another individual out there who could (though I don't foreclose the possibility). It is the job of the AD to decide whether, for example, another $200,000 for a defensive coordinator would improve the team enough to produce X more wins a season, and then whether those wins would drive attendance by a factor greater than that. I don't know those answers, but that's the analysis that must be done.

If people are deciding not to attend because of the style of ball being played, that's not irrelevant, either. Your friend's dollars are no more valuable to the athletic association than mine. So, if he is saying that he definitely would buy them if a different offense was being run, that's important. The question is whether he would buy them if another offense was being run with the same results. For me, I know the answer is yes, which removes risk to the athletic association, which is pretty important, too.

What gets me is that Tech fans seem to be the only fans at least in the SE who make constant winning a prerequisite for support. Look at all the mediocre years that Tenn and SCar and, at least until recently, Clemson have had, and yet their fans never deserted them or said we will come when the teams wins every game. Hell, Tech fans wouldn't even fill the stadium during 2014 or 2015, when, after the success of 2014, sellouts should have been guaranteed. Are we the must fickle fan base in the country? or is the competition for entertainment dollar that much greater in Atlanta? or what?

 

[Techster]

Okay, so I'll try to respond to each point. Again, I'm not being adversarial, but I do think a bit of clarification is warranted.

With respect to Baylor, to me, at least, their situation shows that a non-thouroghbred can compete, but it must cut corners and take risks. Theirs backfired. Also, they made an investment in a stadium, which is not to be ignored.

To your second point, you are, of course, correct. If people view the marginal cost of an item as greater than the marginal benefit, they will not buy it. Simple stuff.

I break with you on your comparison to an automobile or technology company, though, and the reason is because sports teams include an emotional attachment that a commodity does not. It is irrelevant to me how the team performs; I will buy season tickets to football and basketball every year. Period.

The issue for me when I analyze a coach's performance - or anyone else's, for that matter - is to figure out whether they are getting the best results with the resources they have been given by their superiors. I am not certain Johnson has at all times, but I am less certain that there is another individual out there who could (though I don't foreclose the possibility). It is the job of the AD to decide whether, for example, another $200,000 for a defensive coordinator would improve the team enough to produce X more wins a season, and then whether those wins would drive attendance by a factor greater than that. I don't know those answers, but that's the analysis that must be done.

If people are deciding not to attend because of the style of ball being played, that's not irrelevant, either. Your friend's dollars are no more valuable to the athletic association than mine. So, if he is saying that he definitely would buy them if a different offense was being run, that's important. The question is whether he would buy them if another offense was being run with the same results. For me, I know the answer is yes, which removes risk to the athletic association, which is pretty important, too.

You and I are die hard fans. I said to myself after the debacle of 2015 that I wasnt' going to buy seats in section 108 anymore and return to the North Stands where I've been a season ticket holder since I graduated. Well, I ended up with season tix in 108 again. We are the exception.

The problem with that is, there are not enough die hards like you and I to fill up a stadium to the point the AA breaks even. GT knows which fans are going to show up every year...our renewal rate tells them how to forecast for the next year. We're not the ones they worry about. They worry about the casual fans and sidewalk fans with that don't have the deep rooted ties that a lot of us on this board have. Those are the fans that actually help the AA turn profit.

You look at our situation through the lens of a die hard fan. Unfortunately, that's not how casual sports fans and some sidewalk GT fans look at our situation. I see your point, and I get that us GT fans need to do our part if we want to see change happen...because change can't happen without $$$. Where your POV goes sideways is expecting the same belief that casual and some sidewalk GT fans are obligated to do the same.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

"Where your POV goes sideways is expecting the same belief that casual and some sidewalk GT fans are obligated to do the same."

But don't the "casual and sidewalk" fans at other schools "do the same"? The vast majority of the fans in Athens on game days never went to school there. It would be interesting to know how many of those fans contribute to the program. The same can be said for Clemson, Bama, et al. We can't force those sidewalk fans to do more than simply purchase tickets, but I don't think it's necessarily wrong to want them to.

 

[iceeater1969]

This isn't meant as a criticism of you or your friend, but the issue here is that getting people in the stadium is a threshold to other things. You must have people in the stadium before the other stuff works; it rarely works the other way. The only recent example I can think of where a coach led the change is Baylor, and they built a new stadium and apparently allowed their athletes to rape women with no recourse, so ... no, thanks. Arguably, Stanford fits, but they have a strong commitment to athletics there. Every other successful school is a place where the commitment is made, then the success follows. The success doesn't lead to the commitment.

JJ, Are you saying that art briles got the admin to look the other way so he could cut corners? How do you know this? Why was he dropped from lawsuit? Why was he paid in full? Why was prez and ad canned?

I do know this - Art did have a very high reputation as high school coach ( in 93 sons HS playoff team would have played him but we lost).
My son was a student at Baylor when they one 1 big 12 game. At that time they had an ok basketball team where an ast coach helped cover up a murder by a player. Now he and wife are professors there. Son says brilles was too busy coaching and going around state promoting Baylor football and should have insisted on quick action on charges against players. On campus the responsibility has settled on the ad and prez.

As to taking your side of issue, son says brilles believed that he could change players who had less than stellar track records and the exception brought him down. One player my son taught in his philosophy class was a walk on who came to Baylor instead of going to Harvard.
Briles does way more than x/o play calling. He is feels he is a marketer for Baylor football. His enthusiasm is contagious and he is an offensive genius.

For last 3 years I have had season tickets at Baylor - but cancelled them this year because needed to send a message that they let the university down. Baylor admin made no real commitment and they lucked out getting a great coach before they dropped football. From out of football to made you aren't in bds caused the admin to loose focus and as such, they are fired.

Now back to jackets
We need some buzz to get folks in the stands.

 

[iceeater1969]

By way - all the coaches and players for clemson and miami went by the visitor stands to thank them for coming. That's a cool tradition

 

[Techster]

But don't the "casual and sidewalk" fans at other schools "do the same"? The vast majority of the fans in Athens on game days never went to school there. It would be interesting to know how many of those fans contribute to the program. The same can be said for Clemson, Bama, et al. We can't force those sidewalk fans to do more than simply purchase tickets, but I don't think it's necessarily wrong to want them to.

Is it wrong to want them to? Absolutely not.

Is it realistic? Probably not. GT football is just entertainment for those fans, and there's nothing wrong with it. If they don't get the same benefit from watching us play than going to watch a 2.5 hour movie, there's not much that we can do about it. Most of Atlanta is populated with people from all over the country. Their loyalties are not to GT or even Atlanta pro sports teams. If we can't offer them a comparable product for their dollars in their eyes to a concert/movie/baseball game/dinner out/etc. then that's not on them, that's on GT football. That's just the reality in the market GT is in.

 

[RonJohn]

Why was he dropped from lawsuit?

His lawyer and the AD's lawyer argued that under the statute that the lawsuit was filed, individuals could not be sued. The victim's lawyer agreed, but has said they will file in State court.

Why was he paid in full?

Because he told the victim's lawyer that he would give a full accounting in a deposition. He was paid in full the evening before the deposition was supposed to occur.

Why was prez and ad canned?

Same reasons as Briles.


I have been and still am a supporter of Johnson. However, if anything even remotely close to the Baylor situation happened at GT, I would not support keeping such a person.

 

[Eli]

Uh, the Falcons have never won a Super Bowl, the Braves have 1 World Series and the Hawks have zero NBA Championships, why do you think they refer to Atlanta as losersville.

The Braves won 14 straight division titles, a record that will probably never be broken with arguably one of the best starting rotations of all time.

 

[RonJohn]

The Braves won 14 straight division titles, a record that will probably never be broken with arguably one of the best starting rotations of all time.

And if I remember correctly, they couldn't even sell out the playoff games.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

 

[Eli]

And if I remember correctly, they couldn't even sell out the playoff games.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

Yeah exactly my point

 

[iceeater1969]

His lawyer and the AD's lawyer argued that under the statute that the lawsuit was filed, individuals could not be sued. The victim's lawyer agreed, but has said they will file in State court.



Because he told the victim's lawyer that he would give a full accounting in a deposition. He was paid in full the evening before the deposition was supposed to occur.



Same reasons as Briles.


I have been and still am a supporter of Johnson. However, if anything even remotely close to the Baylor situation happened at GT, I would not support keeping such a person.

Who could disagree they all had to go?

The university was embarrassed under their watch.

On campus there was rumored a possiility of trying to sort out the details of who is at fault but the guilt and association of same got on everyone including the head coach.

Memos and rumors of memos will tell a lot if not settled out of court.

As to attorneys agreeing to drop one party and university agreeing to pay, seems like some memos could impact the university with big endowment.

 

[Blumpkin Souffle]

More pertinent question is how many more games can Kirby Smart lose before someone starts a web site devoted to getting him fired? Glad our fans are a little more realistic.

http://firekirbysmart.com can be yours for the low price of $1000

 

[RonJohn]

Who could disagree they all had to go?

The university was embarrassed under their watch.

In the discussion about CPJ's job, all of this should be considered. I know fans like to concentrate solely on football. However, it is a school, and the team does represent the school. IIRC, the football team is setting records at GT for the highest GPAs for the football team. I don't know any of the players personally, but everything I have seen indicates that they are all guys of high character.

 

[Captain killem]

I agree we seem to have very high character guys. Now we just need some ornery ol cusses for the o n d lines . Lol

 

[up state jacket]

Tech competed quiet well against Clemson except for the last 3 years since the beginning of this rivalry.

 

[MySouthernJacket]

What if Charlie Strong gets fired at Texas? Does the new AD get ideas?

 

[AE 87]

My biggest questions still surround our defense. I'm hopeful that things will get better, but it's hard to find places to base confidence. That being said, Todd played with Ted, and it's true that there are some players from the 80s and 90s that don't like Paul. We'll see.

 

[RonJohn]

What if Charlie Strong gets fired at Texas? Does the new AD get ideas?

Why would the new AD be interested in someone who can't win with the money and talent they have at Texas?

 

[stech81]

What if Charlie Strong gets fired at Texas? Does the new AD get ideas?

No