Paul Johnson's job

[RonJohn]

Well this hurts recruiting..

I replied to this in another thread(with another poster commenting instead of KQ), but I do not read his comments as being about the school administration.

The GTAA does not have as much money as Clemson, but it is not on the school administration. In 2015, Clemson(the school) spent $4 million on the athletic department with no student fees applied to athletics. Ga Tech(the school) spent$2 million plus $5.1 million in student fees. So the school spent more money on athletics than Clemson. If you want to see where the difference is, you have to look at the fans. Clemson received $20 million in donations while Ga Tech received $11.1 million. Clemson sold $21.9 million dollars worth of tickets while Ga Tech sold $9.2 million.

It is easy to sit back and blame someone else. However, the school and the students are doing more than Clemson. The people at fault are the fans. If you are not donating money, then you are the problem. If you are not buying season tickets, then you are the problem. If you are not convincing fellow alumni and fans to donate money and buy tickets, then you are the problem.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Johnson isn't going anywhere. If fans start with the fire johnson dialogue it will only hurt recruiting. I am frustrated, but 2 losses isn't a huge deal. Especially against solid opponents. Miami was untested, but had a ton of talent. People that say Miami isn't good are morons. 2 fumbles go for touchdowns. Our senior qb was the difference in the game, just not how we would expect

More pertinent question is how many more games can Kirby Smart lose before someone starts a web site devoted to getting him fired? Glad our fans are a little more realistic.

 

[RonJohn]

More pertinent question is how many more games can Kirby Smart lose before someone starts a web site devoted to getting him fired? Glad our fans are a little more realistic.

I am really hoping that muttsmart has two very mediocre years, and that at the game in November 2017, the fans at BDS replace the YELLO -- JACKETS with RAYGOOF -- JUNIOR. I would love to see how the drunk mutt fans reacted to that, and I am pretty sure that if the crowd at BDS was able to make justified fun of their coach at that game that would nail getting him fired.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Richt rolls into Atlanta and beats Tech once again.

Gailey never beat Richt. Not once.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Well when I retire we are moving to the mountains and I will be a season ticket holder from them on.

I just retired to Clayton and the whole down claims the dwags. Almost every business carries either merchandise or has memorabilia on the walls. Not THAT many people even went to college up here.

 

[iceeater1969]

We need some buzz.

 

[techman33908]

Change is good.Why put up with mediocre you when you have a premium product.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

I can agree with this. I mean even in 2014 when the team was doing well, I remember the stands not being full. Also this whole thing of students not showing till almost the 2nd quarter needs to change especially on big TV games.
The other big thing is that a lot of fans have grown tired of CPJs offense and don't find it exciting. Right now it goes both ways, fans need to step up and support the team and CPJ needs to correct the product on the field.

I am tired of seeing us lose games that were easily winnable a few years ago, games that were lost due to execution and penalties. As a fan I will continue to support the team, but if we finish the season again not doing well due to coaching issues, execution, penalties then I'm ready to see something new.

You apparently were not around in the 70s and 80s if you think this is the first time Tech has lost games that should have been winnable. When Johnson starts losing to the Furman's of this world, like Curry did, among other totally embarrassing defeats encountered by him and others back then, then you might have an argument.

 

[GTfan4Life]

If we want to win and demand 10 or more wins a year lets start by filling the stadium.

I just moved back to Atlanta after many years in the wilderness of Kansas City. The first thing I did when the move was solidified was to buy season tickets for me and my wife. I have to admit it is embarrassing to see how empty the place looks - even if you count the opposing teams' fans.

 

[Eli]

Atlanta has always been a fair weather city. No matter how good the Braves, Hawks or Falcons are it is still tough for all those teams to sell out their games

 

[JorgeJonas]

Paul Johnson is right. And people who gripe about him talking about needing to execute are likely the same people griping about his comments. Straight talk hurts sometimes.

The fact that there's a game thread on this website is such a damn joke. If you live in Georgia and are commenting on this site, then you aren't watching your kids; you're watching the game ... from your couch ... because you're too cheap or lazy or both to get your *** in the stadium and put some skin in the fu*^&ing game. Johnson isn't perfect, but we don't deserve perfect or anything close to it. There are 15,000 empty seats in the stadium every week, and all we hear is griping about noon games, or heat, or cold, or rain, or some other excuse. If it's a priority for people to complain on a website, it ought to be a priority to get into the stadium for three hours seven times every damn year. But no. We'd rather complain, because that's way more fun than winning.

 

[AE 87]

Paul Johnson is right. And people who gripe about him talking about needing to execute are likely the same people griping about his comments. Straight talk hurts sometimes.

The fact that there's a game thread on this website is such a damn joke. If you live in Georgia and are commenting on this site, then you aren't watching your kids; you're watching the game ... from your couch ... because you're too cheap or lazy or both to get your *** in the stadium and put some skin in the fu*^&ing game. Johnson isn't perfect, but we don't deserve perfect or anything close to it. There are 15,000 empty seats in the stadium every week, and all we hear is griping about noon games, or heat, or cold, or rain, or some other excuse. If it's a priority for people to complain on a website, it ought to be a priority to get into the stadium for three hours seven times every damn year. But no. We'd rather complain, because that's way more fun than winning.

Some of us don't live in Georgia, hence the website accommodating us.

 

[VolJacket]

If memory serves me Johnson's recruiting is not worse than Gaileys and may be slightly better ranking wise. Either way neither was great in regards to the ranking. That is not because of his offense. It is because as we all know Tech requires a 2.5 while others schools (ahem UGA) require a 2.0. That cuts our pool down significantly. Add in limited majors and fans who don't fill the stadium and it is not hard to see why recruiting cannot be compared to other schools like Clemson, UNC, Louisville, UGA, and the list goes on.

Regarding filling our stadium. I tend to think the economy and the added price of paying into the fund has hurt our sales. But you know what there are alternatives. I for example sit in section 101. No extra fee for those tickets. Or you can do like my dad. He never buys season tickets but goes to most games by buying tickets on the street. He is probably the cheapest man I know so I am sure he never pays face value. If you don't have family obligations and are just sitting at home watching football anyway then there really is no excuse to not go down and support the team.

Georgia Tech suffers from a lot of the same problems that Vanderbilt does in the SEC

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Some of us don't live in Georgia, hence the website accommodating us.

Yes, you have a reason. Too many complainers and haters on these threads never attend a game, and I bet there are quite a few of them living closer than I do at 2 1/2 hours away.

 

[Techster]

I just moved back to Atlanta after many years in the wilderness of Kansas City. The first thing I did when the move was solidified was to buy season tickets for me and my wife. I have to admit it is embarrassing to see how empty the place looks - even if you count the opposing teams' fans.

True story: My girlfriend's brother is a Tulane alum that moved here a couple of years ago after college. Absolute sports nut that goes to pretty much all the Atlanta pro sports games. He'll even go to HS football and basketball games to catch the big time HS recruits play. He roots for GT because of me, and we've taken him to a few games. He's enjoyed them...especially the tailgating and coeds.

I asked him this summer if he wanted to join us this season and get season tickets. His reply: "If I wanted to pay to watch triple option football, I'd go to a HS game, park for free, pay $10 for entrance, pay $2 for a hotdog, and $1 for a coke, and still have about $75 bucks leftover to go bar hopping in Buckhead after the game."

And that's the fight GT is fighting for fan money. I don't blame him. I'm a fan of our offense, and we can spout whatever statistic we want that our offense is one of the best in the nation when it's humming, but if someone who's not die hard GT fan like most of us doesn't find the product appealing, it's their perogative to do with their money what they want. Let's be real: Our offense doesn't register with casual sports fans like all these new spread passing offenses do. On top of that, we're not winning enough lately to say "Well, we're winning a bunch of games with it!"

As we know, GT can't sustain itself on just "alumi fans", so the other portions of BDS is either filled with sidewalk fans, casual sports fans, or opposing fans. Die hard GT fans will come to games no matter what...as we witnessed through the B*** L**** years and latter end of Chan Gailey years. However, the sidewalk fans and casual sports fans are the market we need the most. It's a little quid pro quo here: If you want those fans to consistently come to games and help GT's bottom line, GT needs to give those fans a reason to come to the games. Unfortunately, we're not winning enough nor do most casual fans find our offense exciting enough to fork over the money it cost to park, buy a ticket, eat/drink, etc.

There's a saying. Offense puts butts in the seats, but defense wins championships. Well, when a certain set of fans look at us and we're 0-2 with offense and defense...what exactly is GT offering them they couldn't find with other avenues of entertainment?

 

[JorgeJonas]

True story: My girlfriend's brother is a Tulane alum that moved here a couple of years ago after college. Absolute sports nut that goes to pretty much all the Atlanta pro sports games. He'll even go to HS football and basketball games to catch the big time HS recruits play. He roots for GT because of me, and we've taken him to a few games. He's enjoyed them...especially the tailgating and coeds.

I asked him this summer if he wanted to join us this season and get season tickets. His reply: "If I wanted to pay to watch triple option football, I'd go to a HS game, park for free, pay $10 for entrance, pay $2 for a hotdog, and $1 for a coke, and still have about $75 bucks leftover to go bar hopping in Buckhead after the game."

And that's the fight GT is fighting for fan money. I don't blame him. I'm a fan of our offense, and we can spout whatever statistic we want that our offense is one of the best in the nation when it's humming, but if someone who's not die hard GT fan like most of us doesn't find the product appealing, it's their perogative to do with their money what they want. Let's be real: Our offense doesn't register with casual sports fans like all these new spread passing offenses do. On top of that, we're not winning enough lately to say "Well, we're winning a bunch of games with it!"

As we know, GT can't sustain itself on just "alumi fans", so the other portions of BDS is either filled with sidewalk fans, casual sports fans, or opposing fans. Die hard GT fans will come to games no matter what...as we witnessed through the B*** L**** years and latter end of Chan Gailey years. However, the sidewalk fans and casual sports fans are the market we need the most. It's a little quid pro quo here: If you want those fans to consistently come to games and help GT's bottom line, GT needs to give those fans a reason to come to the games. Unfortunately, we're not winning enough nor do most casual fans find our offense exciting enough to fork over the money it cost to park, buy a ticket, eat/drink, etc.

There's a saying. Offense puts butts in the seats, but defense wins championships. Well, when a certain set of fans look at us and we're 0-2 with offense and defense...what exactly is GT offering them they couldn't find with other avenues of entertainment?

This isn't meant as a criticism of you or your friend, but the issue here is that getting people in the stadium is a threshold to other things. You must have people in the stadium before the other stuff works; it rarely works the other way. The only recent example I can think of where a coach led the change is Baylor, and they built a new stadium and apparently allowed their athletes to rape women with no recourse, so ... no, thanks. Arguably, Stanford fits, but they have a strong commitment to athletics there. Every other successful school is a place where the commitment is made, then the success follows. The success doesn't lead to the commitment.

 

[JorgeJonas]

Some of us don't live in Georgia, hence the website accommodating us.

Right, which is why I made the qualification.

 

[Techster]

This isn't meant as a criticism of you or your friend, but the issue here is that getting people in the stadium is a threshold to other things. You must have people in the stadium before the other stuff works; it rarely works the other way. The only recent example I can think of where a coach led the change is Baylor, and they built a new stadium and apparently allowed their athletes to rape women with no recourse, so ... no, thanks. Arguably, Stanford fits, but they have a strong commitment to athletics there. Every other successful school is a place where the commitment is made, then the success follows. The success doesn't lead to the commitment.

So it's the Baylor way which leads to rape or...? Kinda taking that to an extreme aren't we?

As I seem to recall, CPJ got a nice bump in attendance when he was first hired because people wanted to support a new coach and we were actually winning (19 games in the first 2 seasons). When we returned to the "Chan Gailey Equilibrium" is when the casual fans and sidewalk fans started looking elsewhere for entertainment.

All of that is not the point though. IF you believe the fans need to come back first in order for GT to do anything, then you have a basic misunderstanding of how competition works. GT football is entertainment. That's it. It may mean more to some than others, but from the perspective of fighting for entertainment dollars, GT needs to compete with other forms of entertainment. If fans don't believe the cost outweighs the benefit, they simply will not come into the stadium...and it's their right to do that.

If Ford/Toyota/Chevrolet/Honda/etc or Samsung/Apple/LG/Nokia continue to put out sub standard products, consumers are under no obligation to continue buying their products in the hopes that it will lead to better products. That's simply just not how it works. You know the biggest impetus in Gailey's dismissal? It wasn't because his offense was boring or fans didn't like him. It was empty seats at BDS. When a coach starts costing the school potential $$$, the school will make a move to correct it. It's why Paul Hewitt had to go, and Brian Gregory (who ironically got fired after his best season) had to go on the basketball side. The school simply couldn't afford to have empty seats in their new basketball building.

As much as some dislike CPJ's offense, it won't be because of his offense that he gets fired. If fans refuse to come to games under his watch and it becomes a drain on the AA's bottom line, they will eventually make a move. CPJ can go 3-9 or 7-6 as long as fans show up and pay for tickets. Once fans quit showing up and paying for tickets is when CPJ is really in trouble.

 

[grandpa jacket]

Atlanta has always been a fair weather city. No matter how good the Braves, Hawks or Falcons are it is still tough for all those teams to sell out their games

Uh, the Falcons have never won a Super Bowl, the Braves have 1 World Series and the Hawks have zero NBA Championships, why do you think they refer to Atlanta as losersville.

 

[JorgeJonas]

So it's the Baylor way which leads to rape or...? Kinda taking that to an extreme aren't we?

As I seem to recall, CPJ got a nice bump in attendance when he was first hired because people wanted to support a new coach and we were actually winning (19 games in the first 2 seasons). When we returned to the "Chan Gailey Equilibrium" is when the casual fans and sidewalk fans started looking elsewhere for entertainment.

All of that is not the point though. IF you believe the fans need to come back first in order for GT to do anything, then you have a basic misunderstanding of how competition works. GT football is entertainment. That's it. It may mean more to some than others, but from the perspective of fighting for entertainment dollars, GT needs to compete with other forms of entertainment. If fans don't believe the cost outweighs the benefit, they simply will not come into the stadium...and it's their right to do that.

If Ford/Toyota/Chevrolet/Honda/etc or Samsung/Apple/LG/Nokia continue to put out sub standard products, consumers are under no obligation to continue buying their products in the hopes that it will lead to better products. That's simply just not how it works. You know the biggest impetus in Gailey's dismissal? It wasn't because his offense was boring or fans didn't like him. It was empty seats at BDS. When a coach starts costing the school potential $$$, the school will make a move to correct it. It's why Paul Hewitt had to go, and Brian Gregory (who ironically got fired after his best season) had to go on the basketball side. The school simply couldn't afford to have empty seats in their new basketball building.

As much as some dislike CPJ's offense, it won't be because of his offense that he gets fired. If fans refuse to come to games under his watch and it becomes a drain on the AA's bottom line, they will eventually make a move. CPJ can go 3-9 or 7-6 as long as fans show up and pay for tickets. Once fans quit showing up and paying for tickets is when CPJ is really in trouble.

Okay, so I'll try to respond to each point. Again, I'm not being adversarial, but I do think a bit of clarification is warranted.

With respect to Baylor, to me, at least, their situation shows that a non-thouroghbred can compete, but it must cut corners and take risks. Theirs backfired. Also, they made an investment in a stadium, which is not to be ignored.

To your second point, you are, of course, correct. If people view the marginal cost of an item as greater than the marginal benefit, they will not buy it. Simple stuff.

I break with you on your comparison to an automobile or technology company, though, and the reason is because sports teams include an emotional attachment that a commodity does not. It is irrelevant to me how the team performs; I will buy season tickets to football and basketball every year. Period.

The issue for me when I analyze a coach's performance - or anyone else's, for that matter - is to figure out whether they are getting the best results with the resources they have been given by their superiors. I am not certain Johnson has at all times, but I am less certain that there is another individual out there who could (though I don't foreclose the possibility). It is the job of the AD to decide whether, for example, another $200,000 for a defensive coordinator would improve the team enough to produce X more wins a season, and then whether those wins would drive attendance by a factor greater than that. I don't know those answers, but that's the analysis that must be done.

If people are deciding not to attend because of the style of ball being played, that's not irrelevant, either. Your friend's dollars are no more valuable to the athletic association than mine. So, if he is saying that he definitely would buy them if a different offense was being run, that's important. The question is whether he would buy them if another offense was being run with the same results. For me, I know the answer is yes, which removes risk to the athletic association, which is pretty important, too.