Our B-ball Program

[RamblinRed]

We definately had to fire Hewitt - the anger in the fanbase at the time of his firing was pretty palpable. This year reminds me alot of Cremins last couple of years. A fanbase that largely likes the coach but understands he just isn't getting it done at the level the the program has potential for.

I'd love to see Gregory succeed here, but it appears very unlikely. I will say this season reminds me alot of 2001-2002. That year GT finished 16-17 in Hewitt's second year. GT started 0-7 in the ACC and you just felt that if they could get one win they could really get going. They finally beat FSU in game 8 and ended up going 7-9 in the conference after the 0-7 start. This team does consistently just enough to lose. 4 of the 5 ACC loses have been a 1 possession game with 1 minute to play.

Offensively the team is getting really hurt by Carter's departure. He was supposed to be the #1 option on offense. That would have allowed MGH to be #2 and everyone else is in a more comfortable position. Chuck is largely trying to be Carter on offense, but he isn't nearly as natural offensive player as Carter is and it shows, despite Chuck being a pleasant surprise in my opinion (the TO's are killing us though)

Also if we are going to be fair, you have to give credit where things have improved. Both 3-pt shooting and FT shooting have been noticeably better since ACC play began (34% threes and 75% FT). It's inside the arc where GT is getting killed (sub 40%). Gregory has made a change at guard I don't really agree with. He has obviously decided to try to go with a defensive minded guard group - but that puts alot of pressure on others on offense. Jorgenson is easily the best PG on offense - he has a better than 2:1 A:TO ratio against ACC teams and avg assists at better than a 1 to 5 min rate. Nobody else is better than 1 per 10 min.

The right coach could get this team to the tourney next year - there are enough pieces, but they need some seasoning and a few changes.

I have a list in my mind as well, but won't talk too much until probably Feb. it wouldn't surprise people that Marshall would be #1 on my list, but he is so very unlikely. The comment he made last spring when he name was connected with Wake Forest was 'why would I leave a better job for a worse one'. I have names that i would like to hear, names that i expect to hear (some are the same, some are not).

FWIW, Mark Price would not be on my list. Unless he had made a 180 on his mindset of college recruiting he would be a failure and I don't want to see that happen at his alma mater. He is at a better place for what he likes to do. He does not like to recruit and he does not like to travel to recruit - given how many people on this thread have said we need to recruit better, that would seem to then be a problem. He's one of my 3 favorite GT basketball players of all time, but I do not want him as the HC.

RamblinRed

 

[slugboy]

I'm not nearly as basketball-knowledgeable as a lot of folks on here. I'm wondering if one of you can tell me what's going on with one thing I'm noticing on offense.

When our opponents set a pick play, they get a clean shot off of the pick. When we try to set a pick, we don't get it set correctly, and they keep a defender or two on our ball handler. I saw us keep trying and failing to set picks at Pitt and a lot of our other opponents. Are other people seeing this? If so, why can't we set a pick?

 

[RamblinRed]

Haven't been able to access this site from work the last couple of weeks and I don't get online much on the weekend so i'll add a couple more thoughts.

This team is closer than it was 4 years ago to being a good program. It is a much more fundamentally sound program, but has a couple of weaknesses that are causing it to lose tight games.
In Hewitt's last 4 seasons (including the one with Favors) those teams lost 22 ACC games by at least 10 points. GT was simply not even a competitive team those last years. At least it is competitive, now it needs to take another step.

If GT decides to make a change this offseason, I do not expect them to go 'cheap'. That does not mean I expect them to spend $2.5-3M (which is what it would take to even be in a conversation for a Marshall or Smart - Smart turned down almost $3M from Wake last spring). But I don't expect GT to hire at $1M. The financials are different. DRad had spent a ton on facilities, was still paying $875K to Gailey and about to start paying $1.4M to Hewitt. Hewitt's buyout has been renegotiated down to $650k year for a couple more years. Our debt financing is under control, there is no FB payout, and there is more TV money. Gregory's buyout would be $650K this season.

On a couple of names i've seen mentioned. I don't think Brad Stevens is realistic. When rumors went up last month that he might end up at IND he came out and said he was staying in the NBA. If he ever came back that will be the job he takes.
I was interested in Jay Wright at the time of Hewitt's hire, that was his last year at Hofstra. He is a Bucks County, PA native and his wife is a Villanova grad. Hard to see him leaving what is basically his home school.

If GT is going to make a change this season makes the most sense. GT has only 1 signee in the current class and not someone who is expected to play a major role as a FR. GT will have
4-5 schollys to give out next fall. Would be better if that is given out with a new coach than one on a short leash. A new coach would also have an experienced team to work with in season 1, giving him a chance to get off to a good start if the players buy in.

Finally, I have no issue with the transfers, that is part of the game today. That is a change in recruiting over the last 3 years in college basketball. Over 700 players transferred last season - that is an avg of 2 per school. Look at some of the ACC schools. NCST is led by Lacey (AL transfer) and Turner (LSU transfer). Miami is led by Rodriquez (Kan St) and McClellan (Texas). UVA has Anthony Gill. Look how much better AL looks with Tulane transfer Jerrod Tarrant (who I really wanted at GT and would be our starting 2G).
The key is to get good ones that fit in, and preferably guys that will be there more than a year like Mitchell.

 

[Peacone36]

I'm not nearly as basketball-knowledgeable as a lot of folks on here. I'm wondering if one of you can tell me what's going on with one thing I'm noticing on offense.

When our opponents set a pick play, they get a clean shot off of the pick. When we try to set a pick, we don't get it set correctly, and they keep a defender or two on our ball handler. I saw us keep trying and failing to set picks at Pitt and a lot of our other opponents. Are other people seeing this? If so, why can't we set a pick?

Thats on the PG most of the time, he has to lead his man into the pick or its an offensive foul. When the pg gives the screener a wide birth yhe screener needs to abandon it or risk the moving screen foul. I was taught almost brush shoulders with the screen to ensure the pick. Rarely see it happen anymore. We havent done it correctly in years.

 

[awbuzz]

@redmule - your two posts above are a great summary of the issue at hand. Well done. Agree 100% the Mark Price is not the answer. Great guy -Heck my dad and his day went to high school together -Norman, OK, which even gave me more of a feeling that he was special.

Why we seem so tight when it comes to shooting the rock is beyond me.

This team does well - most of the time - on D and above average in rebounding.

Don't know if not getting the ball to Mitchell and Cox is due to poor play calling or of folks afraid to pass the ball. But until someone steps up and becomes a threat (regularly) from the outside or proves they can dribble and score on the drive, out big guys are going to be double and triple teamed.

 

[awbuzz]

Thats on the PG most of the time, he has to lead his man into the pick or its an offensive foul. When the pg gives the screener a wide birth yhe screener needs to abandon it or risk the moving screen foul. I was taught almost brush shoulders with the screen to ensure the pick. Rarely see it happen anymore. We havent done it correctly in years.

Isn't that the truth!

 

[Boomergump]

Well, it is a lot harder to work the ball inside when everything is packed in and your bigs are about 6-6.

We have been so poor at shooting the ball for so long now. It just makes me wonder. I mean, all across the country you see good shooters everywhere. They can't be that hard to find. Heck, I was at a HS hoops game Friday night and kids on both teams were draining threes all over the place. I know, I know, we need to find guys who can run and defend too as well as shoot, but man, this has been a frustrating run of bad shooting for our program.

 

[dtm1997]

@RamblinRed - thanks for the thoughts on Jay Wright. I tend to think we're gonna shake out in the $2MM range, but given Wright's past flirtations, my thought was to approach him and at least make him say no.

Also, I agree about the 4-5 schollies that are ready to be given out. Chris Lewis' commitment to Harvard made the rounds today. While I'll certainly never fault a kid for committing to Harvard, Lewis was a local kid, top 100, academically focused, seeking to major in ME. He was our top 2016 post target, in my opinion, by far, based on how much time BG invested watching him personally on the AAU circuit this past summer and we're already out of the picture. My fear is that we're about to start seeing that with several 2016 recruits, potentially perpetuating a vicious cycle attaining talent.

 

[mqpayne]

Mike Bobinski knows bb. He is a great AD. Miller at Az OHSU coach etc. problem will be solved.

 

[jeffgt14]

It is indeed unfortunate that we are having these kind of discussions at this point of the season. I sympathize with everybody who has posted in this thread. I haven't posted much in this forum this season, but I have watched pretty much every game, whether on replay or live. The way I see this is that we don't have a coaching problem, per se, but rather a roster problem. I can already hear some responses to that statement. "Coaches are responsible for putting a good roster on the floor" and I agree totally. Our kids play really hard and they play bonafide good defense while rebounding the basketball. That is a sign of good coaching. Our D has kept us in games despite a historically bad offense.

Unfortunately, in the sport of basketball, you have to be able to put it into the net too. It is hard to describe the magnitude of the struggles we have faced in this regard. I see three main problems contributing to this dilemma: first and foremost, we can't stretch defenses with the outside shot. Teams pack it in against us and dare us to shoot causing painfully little room to operate or penetrate inside. Secondly, we have no player who can consistently beat defenders off the dribble and break down the defense in the half court set. Thirdly, we have no length down low, making it doubly hard to get the ball inside. We can expect to see a steady diet of tight zone until we fix it.

We have tried to call on MGH to answer the call as an offensive leader. That, to me, is a sure-fire sign of how bad off we are - not that he is a bad player, far from it. To use a CPJism, that is like teaching a pig to sing. MGH is a guy who needs to play a ton of minutes and contribute a ton of ways. However, he is not a natural creative scorer who needs to take over the offense. I see him as a complimentary guy on offense who picks up garbage points and feeds off the flow of the game. He is physical and a great defender and he can drive and score a little as well, but on most teams, he will not be their "go to guy" who creates on his own.

I think Tadric has the potential to be a scorer type, but he isn't ready. IMHO, he has seen his teammates struggle enough that he feels way to much pressure to score. It is indeed a rare occasion when he turns down a shot or doesn't try to force something to happen alone. I'm sure in HS he was the man. Well, hopefully he learns that CBB is a team game and people can defend. Right now, when he shoots, I just feel so sorry for him. You can see him trying SO HARD to guide the shot out of his hand instead of just shooting from the floor up and letting it fly, trusting his shot. He has some skills and he can break people down, but right now he has no instinct for when is a good time to push it. He is just FULL GO all the time, even in bad situations. My gut feel is that Tadric is probably KILLING IT in practice, but during games he is just tightening up. He looks anything but comfortable on the stage right now. I can sympathize because it was the same way for me when I was young (different sport).

Has anybody else noticed how freely, confidently, and smoothly other team's players shoot the ball? When I see an opponent rise up for a 15 foot J, it just looks like it is going in. To a man, on our team right now, we look so stilted and mechanical in that same situation that it is painful to watch. We don't have control of our weight and our bodies are all out of alignment when we go up. Shooting a basketball has to be a free and natural motion. It just doesn't work any other way. You can't force it on the right path. It is all muscle memory.

I like CBG and I hope he stays, but the mere act of having to sign so many transfers in a single year is a sign of recruiting struggles. It is hard to develop chemistry in that situation. The good news is, it is easier to turn around a hoops program than practically any other sport. It just takes a couple of the right players. Here is hoping.

What you're describing to me is a problem with player development and that falls on coaching. The guys we've recruited should be more than capable of playing in the ACC. Yeah our guys play hard and look like they're trying but just because you play hard doesn't mean you can score. It's a sad fact that the 2 best players on our team are guys who spent 4 years being developed by another coach.

 

[RamblinRed]

@RamblinRed - thanks for the thoughts on Jay Wright. I tend to think we're gonna shake out in the $2MM range, but given Wright's past flirtations, my thought was to approach him and at least make him say no.

Also, I agree about the 4-5 schollies that are ready to be given out. Chris Lewis' commitment to Harvard made the rounds today. While I'll certainly never fault a kid for committing to Harvard, Lewis was a local kid, top 100, academically focused, seeking to major in ME. He was our top 2016 post target, in my opinion, by far, based on how much time BG invested watching him personally on the AAU circuit this past summer and we're already out of the picture. My fear is that we're about to start seeing that with several 2016 recruits, potentially perpetuating a vicious cycle attaining talent.

I am little loathe to talk about replacements yet until the year plays out a little more, but I do want to address something you bring up.

Fans sort of expect AD's to make big hires, but it really doesn't happen all that often. CBSSports did an article on this last year, the avg was something like less than 1.5 coaching switches per year for the last 8 years in terms of a coach moving from a major job to a major job. Last year there was one - Buzz to VT. There is almost always some sort of circumstance at the school the coach leaves (in Buzz's case his AD and President had both left and he was concerned about the long term in American). Frank Martin is another good example - had issues with his AD at K ST.

the new AD at VT did a great job of figuring out that Buzz might be open and really committing to going after him early before anyone else really thought about it.

I'm not convinced GT will go after a 'big' name if a coaching change is made (I'd like to go after Marshall - I think he is built to succeed much better in the ACC than Smart is), but I do agree with the ballpark figure I think we will spend.

Bobinski has a strong hiring background - he hired both Thad Matta and Chris Mack at Xavier and though he did not hire Sean Miller (he was working in an academic administrative area at that point) he worked hard to retain him as long as he could.

I do agree with the idea if you have an idea of a big name that you think can succeed, you have to have one, focus on him early, get a decision and then move on quickly if he decides to stay where he is. But you can't chase multiple big names- you have to have one in mind. Otherwise the next group starts to get scooped up by other schools and you are forced to settle way down the list. If you are going to play that game, you have 1 guy, you talk early and quickly so you either come to an agreement or move quickly to your #2.

 

[Peacone36]

You dont always need the big name either. Groce at Ill has done well, Bennett at UVA makes less than 2 i beleive. Kristowiak wasnt a huge name. It just takes homework and basketball knowledge

 

[RamblinRed]

I agree about not needing the big name - you need the right name.

Groce was a hot commodity at the time of his hire, frankly so was Bennett.

We certainly have an AD currently with basketball knowledge.

RamblinRed

 

[gtpi]

hawks sure did a turn around this year after being putrid for so many years.

it can be done with the right coach and the right group of players.

 

[RyanS12]

We definately had to fire Hewitt - the anger in the fanbase at the time of his firing was pretty palpable. This year reminds me alot of Cremins last couple of years. A fanbase that largely likes the coach but understands he just isn't getting it done at the level the the program has potential for.

I'd love to see Gregory succeed here, but it appears very unlikely. I will say this season reminds me alot of 2001-2002. That year GT finished 16-17 in Hewitt's second year. GT started 0-7 in the ACC and you just felt that if they could get one win they could really get going. They finally beat FSU in game 8 and ended up going 7-9 in the conference after the 0-7 start. This team does consistently just enough to lose. 4 of the 5 ACC loses have been a 1 possession game with 1 minute to play.

Offensively the team is getting really hurt by Carter's departure. He was supposed to be the #1 option on offense. That would have allowed MGH to be #2 and everyone else is in a more comfortable position. Chuck is largely trying to be Carter on offense, but he isn't nearly as natural offensive player as Carter is and it shows, despite Chuck being a pleasant surprise in my opinion (the TO's are killing us though)

Also if we are going to be fair, you have to give credit where things have improved. Both 3-pt shooting and FT shooting have been noticeably better since ACC play began (34% threes and 75% FT). It's inside the arc where GT is getting killed (sub 40%). Gregory has made a change at guard I don't really agree with. He has obviously decided to try to go with a defensive minded guard group - but that puts alot of pressure on others on offense. Jorgenson is easily the best PG on offense - he has a better than 2:1 A:TO ratio against ACC teams and avg assists at better than a 1 to 5 min rate. Nobody else is better than 1 per 10 min.

The right coach could get this team to the tourney next year - there are enough pieces, but they need some seasoning and a few changes.

I have a list in my mind as well, but won't talk too much until probably Feb. it wouldn't surprise people that Marshall would be #1 on my list, but he is so very unlikely. The comment he made last spring when he name was connected with Wake Forest was 'why would I leave a better job for a worse one'. I have names that i would like to hear, names that i expect to hear (some are the same, some are not).

FWIW, Mark Price would not be on my list. Unless he had made a 180 on his mindset of college recruiting he would be a failure and I don't want to see that happen at his alma mater. He is at a better place for what he likes to do. He does not like to recruit and he does not like to travel to recruit - given how many people on this thread have said we need to recruit better, that would seem to then be a problem. He's one of my 3 favorite GT basketball players of all time, but I do not want him as the HC.

RamblinRed

I've gone back and forth on Dave Rice from UNLV as a possible candidate. Doing a hell of a job recruiting there but not getting the results this year with W/L. He's kind of in a situation like Mark Price. Former player there that the fan base wanted but now they are starting to turn on him because of his on court production. I'd take is recruiting classes here that's for sure. I don't want Price just because if he did fail he'd be in a situation like Rice. I'd hate to see a legend like Mark fired if it didn't work out.

 

[dtm1997]

Quinlan dropped a couple of interesting tidbits

 

[scotts]

We won't fire him until the end of the season

 

[jeffgt14]

I will have to say that before tonight, Nevada and Alcorn State were making a run at our 3 point percentage. We are now back firmly in last shooting under 20%.

Think about how bad that is. We are dead last out of 351 programs.

 

[dtm1997]

We won't fire him until the end of the season

Agreed

 

[Jacket0323]

We definately had to fire Hewitt - the anger in the fanbase at the time of his firing was pretty palpable. This year reminds me alot of Cremins last couple of years. A fanbase that largely likes the coach but understands he just isn't getting it done at the level the the program has potential for.

I'd love to see Gregory succeed here, but it appears very unlikely. I will say this season reminds me alot of 2001-2002. That year GT finished 16-17 in Hewitt's second year. GT started 0-7 in the ACC and you just felt that if they could get one win they could really get going. They finally beat FSU in game 8 and ended up going 7-9 in the conference after the 0-7 start. This team does consistently just enough to lose. 4 of the 5 ACC loses have been a 1 possession game with 1 minute to play.

Offensively the team is getting really hurt by Carter's departure. He was supposed to be the #1 option on offense. That would have allowed MGH to be #2 and everyone else is in a more comfortable position. Chuck is largely trying to be Carter on offense, but he isn't nearly as natural offensive player as Carter is and it shows, despite Chuck being a pleasant surprise in my opinion (the TO's are killing us though)

Also if we are going to be fair, you have to give credit where things have improved. Both 3-pt shooting and FT shooting have been noticeably better since ACC play began (34% threes and 75% FT). It's inside the arc where GT is getting killed (sub 40%). Gregory has made a change at guard I don't really agree with. He has obviously decided to try to go with a defensive minded guard group - but that puts alot of pressure on others on offense. Jorgenson is easily the best PG on offense - he has a better than 2:1 A:TO ratio against ACC teams and avg assists at better than a 1 to 5 min rate. Nobody else is better than 1 per 10 min.

The right coach could get this team to the tourney next year - there are enough pieces, but they need some seasoning and a few changes.

I have a list in my mind as well, but won't talk too much until probably Feb. it wouldn't surprise people that Marshall would be #1 on my list, but he is so very unlikely. The comment he made last spring when he name was connected with Wake Forest was 'why would I leave a better job for a worse one'. I have names that i would like to hear, names that i expect to hear (some are the same, some are not).

FWIW, Mark Price would not be on my list. Unless he had made a 180 on his mindset of college recruiting he would be a failure and I don't want to see that happen at his alma mater. He is at a better place for what he likes to do. He does not like to recruit and he does not like to travel to recruit - given how many people on this thread have said we need to recruit better, that would seem to then be a problem. He's one of my 3 favorite GT basketball players of all time, but I do not want him as the HC.

RamblinRed

Josh pastner???