Option Football

[JacketFan137]

you want me to send you the Auburn playbook from 2010? What percentage of plays have to be options for an offense to count as an option offense? Auburn 2010 based much of their offense around zone reads and QB power runs. There's really no point in being pedantic about it.




I like Chadwell but haven't seen enough to have a super-strong opinion. I'm very happy to engage in conversation. I'm just not following what you guys are saying about the negative recruiting angle. My "argument" is pretty simple:

1) I don't think the negative recruiting against Chadwell would be as great as it was against CPJ
2) Despite the negative recruiting against CPJ, he still managed to recruit well enough to field a top-25 offense most years, including in his last two years
3) Thus, I don't see this as a very good knock against Chadwell - he will probably recruit offensive players at least as well as CPJ.

Will we scare off some 5* QBs because of it? Maybe, IDK. But the chances GT will get any 5* QBs is extraordinarily low anyway. What we'll likely get is what we've historically gotten - 3*s, with the odd 4* every once in a while (JT, Sims). Same with WR.

a top 25 offense is kind of a misleading argument because what about our defenses that were routinely costing the team? that part is also important. option football’s impact on recruiting is more than just one side of the ball

i don’t think that we are in for 5* recruits and no one should believe that but we have gotten 2 4* qb’s in the last 15 years out of high school and both happened to come
after the option. makes you wonder why that is.

chadwell also hasn’t shown he can recruit. while decent for the sun belt he isn’t really performing exceedingly better than other g5 programs. personally if we are hiring someone from a lower level of football i have to question whether or not they can bring in the talent to raise their level to the competition. the fact he (allegedly) is bringing in his staff with little p5 experience if any at all is a cause for concern. you can’t get away with as much on offense if your athletes aren’t quite up to par with your opposition. i’m not sure that one of his coastal teams would fair any better against uga and clemson than collins did, so i would need to see him bring in a higher level of talent to bridge that gap. can he do that? no clue as to whether he will or won’t, but that is why it is fair to ask the question and it should not immediately be dismissed

 

[stylee]

Gus Malzahn's Version of Power Football Close to being Unleashed in Orlando

Power football continues to evolve. Here’s a further examination of how the Knights can make power football a part of the spread package, Gus Malzahn-style.

www.si.com

Baffling response.

 

[JacketFan137]

Every player in the NFL is an outlier. Every single one. 120+ teams in fbs with 85 players. And they funnel to 32 teams with 60 man rosters. They are all outliers.

yeah i agree. my point is that they are kind of taking some liberties here calling cam an option qb and he is literally one of the top 5 athletes of the position ever. he is such an exception i am not sure how the argument is relative to what anyone here is saying. like congrats you found a guy in the .000001 percentile of “option qb’s” what about the remaining 99.99999%?

 

[stylee]

a top 25 offense is kind of a misleading argument because what about our defenses that were routinely costing the team? that part is also important. option football’s impact on recruiting is more than just one side of the ball

i don’t think that we are in for 5* recruits and no one should believe that but we have gotten 2 4* qb’s in the last 15 years out of high school and both happened to come
after the option. makes you wonder why that is.

Justin Thomas was a 4*. Are you saying he wasn't a 4* as a QB? Okay, so what? This is what I'm saying --- it's just a very weird argument that seems intentionally divorced from the concrete, on-the-field product.

If a top 25 offense is misleading because you're concerned about the effect on *defensive recruiting*, fine, but that's a different argument entirely. And it's one that is really difficult to falsify, because there's nothing more than feels and vibez to it. Did we miss out on 4* defenders between 2008-2018 because of the option, or for other reasons? Do we have anyone making any sort of claims to that effect?

 

[Ibeeballin]

Baffling response.

Just as baffling you pulling out option plays from a playbook. I guess if i pull out 4 verticals out Chip Long playbook that means he runs an air raid scheme.

 

[bobongo]

Justin Thomas was a 4*. Are you saying he wasn't a 4* as a QB? Okay, so what? This is what I'm saying --- it's just a very weird argument that seems intentionally divorced from the concrete, on-the-field product.

If a top 25 offense is misleading because you're concerned about the effect on *defensive recruiting*, fine, but that's a different argument entirely. And it's one that is really difficult to falsify, because there's nothing more than feels and vibez to it. Did we miss out on 4* defenders between 2008-2018 because of the option, or for other reasons? Do we have anyone making any sort of claims to that effect?

I would imagine maybe we did miss out on a few, but that probably doesn't translate to the hybrid Chadwell runs. I don't think that would scare any defensive players off.

 

[stylee]

Just as baffling you pulling out option plays from a playbook. I guess if i pull out 4 verticals out Chip Long playbook that means he runs an air raid scheme.

Weird, man. Cam ran for nearly 1500 yards in 2010, much of it on zone reads, double options, inverted veers, and QB isos/powers. Is the argument that he wasn't running an option offense unless he ran true options on __% of his plays? Again, no need to be pedantic with this. He ran tons of options of various types, and then designed QB runs off of option looks. It's fair to say they were an option-based offense in 2010.

 

[yeti92]

Justin Thomas was a 4*. Are you saying he wasn't a 4* as a QB? Okay, so what? This is what I'm saying --- it's just a very weird argument that seems intentionally divorced from the concrete, on-the-field product.

If a top 25 offense is misleading because you're concerned about the effect on *defensive recruiting*, fine, but that's a different argument entirely. And it's one that is really difficult to falsify, because there's nothing more than feels and vibez to it. Did we miss out on 4* defenders between 2008-2018 because of the option, or for other reasons? Do we have anyone making any sort of claims to that effect?

Graham was also a 4 star athlete and Yates was also a 4 star QB. Facts are not 137's forte.

 

[stylee]

Graham was also a 4 star athlete and Yates was also a 4 star QB. Facts are not 137's forte.

uh oh, you said the "Y" word.

 

[rodandanga]

Weird, man. Cam ran for nearly 1500 yards in 2010, much of it on zone reads, double options, inverted veers, and QB isos/powers. Is the argument that he wasn't running an option offense unless he ran true options on __% of his plays? Again, no need to be pedantic with this. He ran tons of options of various types, and then designed QB runs off of option looks. It's fair to say they were an option-based offense in 2010.

Malzahn heavily rooted his offense in the old Tubby Raymond Wing T. Cam was also on of the first times I remember inverted veer becoming a big play.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Justin Thomas was a 4*. Are you saying he wasn't a 4* as a QB? Okay, so what? This is what I'm saying --- it's just a very weird argument that seems intentionally divorced from the concrete, on-the-field product.

If a top 25 offense is misleading because you're concerned about the effect on *defensive recruiting*, fine, but that's a different argument entirely. And it's one that is really difficult to falsify, because there's nothing more than feels and vibez to it. Did we miss out on 4* defenders between 2008-2018 because of the option, or for other reasons? Do we have anyone making any sort of claims to that effect?

FYI, make sure you clarify top 25 offense. Whether total or OFEI when saying top 25 O

We were only a top 25 offense 3x under CPJ (09, 11, & 14)

 

[JacketFan137]

Graham was also a 4 star athlete and Yates was also a 4 star QB. Facts are not 137's forte.

James Graham, Georgia Southern Eagles, Quarterback

James Graham is a 6-1, 175-pound Dual-Threat Quarterback from Fitzgerald, GA.

247sports.com

neither of these are 4* qb’s but if you want to continue to have issues with me because you disagree feel free to keep throwing little digs in literally every comment haha

also look where they ended up yates is an fcs player and graham was moved to WR before quitting football

 

[stylee]

FYI, make sure you clarify top 25 offense. Whether total or OFEI

We were only a top 25 offense 3x under CPJ (09, 11, & 14)

In my original post, I specified OFEI.

2018 COLLEGE FOOTBALL FEI RATINGS | Football Outsiders

2018 FEI Ratings

www.footballoutsiders.com

correct me if I'm wrong, but:

2008: 31
2009: 2
2010: 61
2011: 13
2012: 15
2013: 33
2014: 2
2015: 78
2016: 29
2017: 23
2018: 19

Are you using total instead? I guess that's fine, but I thought most of the football intelligentsia preferred OFEI as being more nuanced and granular.

 

[stylee]

Top 25 OFEI seems like a fair metric. We hit that 6 out of 10 years, with highs of #2 (2009 and 2014), plus two top 15 finishes (#13 in 2011 and #15 in 2012).

Am I wrong here? Maybe I'm reading the footballoutsiders chart incorrectly.

 

[Ibeeballin]

In my original post, I specified OFEI.

2018 COLLEGE FOOTBALL FEI RATINGS | Football Outsiders

2018 FEI Ratings

www.footballoutsiders.com

correct me if I'm wrong, but:

2008: 31
2009: 2
2010: 61
2011: 13
2012: 15
2013: 33
2014: 2
2015: 78
2016: 29
2017: 23
2018: 19

Are you using total instead? I guess that's fine, but I thought most of the football intelligentsia preferred OFEI as being more nuanced and granular.

I do, but we have a pragmatic group here you have to be very careful with your words

 

[JacketFan137]

uh oh, you said the "Y" word.

y’all bring this man up more than i do. it’s getting weird

 

[Techster]

In my original post, I specified OFEI.

2018 COLLEGE FOOTBALL FEI RATINGS | Football Outsiders

2018 FEI Ratings

www.footballoutsiders.com

correct me if I'm wrong, but:

2008: 31
2009: 2
2010: 61
2011: 13
2012: 15
2013: 33
2014: 2
2015: 78
2016: 29
2017: 23
2018: 19

Are you using total instead? I guess that's fine, but I thought most of the football intelligentsia preferred OFEI as being more nuanced and granular.

I say it all the time...if Tevin Washington had a defense to go with those offenses. Man....

For all the flack Vad and that 2013 offense got, OFEI of 33 is still pretty good.

 

[yeti92]

James Graham, Georgia Southern Eagles, Quarterback

James Graham is a 6-1, 175-pound Dual-Threat Quarterback from Fitzgerald, GA.

247sports.com

neither of these are 4* qb’s but if you want to continue to have issues with me because you disagree feel free to keep throwing little digs in literally every comment haha

also look where they ended up yates is an fcs player and graham was moved to WR before quitting football

Everyone on planet earth knows Yates was a 4 star dual threat QB on Rivals, it's hilarious how full of crap you are. You are dishonest in damn near everything you post.

 

[JacketFan137]

I say it all the time...if Tevin Washington had a defense to go with those offenses. Man....

For all the flack Vad and that 2013 offense got, OFEI of 33 is still pretty good.

vad was just really streaky. reminds me of sims. hard not to love the potential but when things were bad they were very bad. if vad could have stayed hot for a whole season i think we would have had a season similar to 2014 at some point with him

 

[stylee]

y’all bring this man up more than i do. it’s getting weird

I got a kick out of it during the Yates/Sims time, that's all. Board nostalgia from when I mostly lurked.

I say it all the time...if Tevin Washington had a defense to go with those offenses. Man....

For all the flack Vad and that 2013 offense got, OFEI of 33 is still pretty good.

Yeah. There's a lot I apparently don't remember about that year. Vad hitting 45% of his passes was pretty good. And the defensive roster doesn't LOOK bad on paper at all!