Option Football

stylee

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Ibeeballin said:
What’s your demarcation for being one of the top offenses?
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Top 25 OFEI seems like a fair metric. We hit that 6 out of 10 years, with highs of #2 (2009 and 2014), plus two top 15 finishes (#13 in 2011 and #15 in 2012).

Looking at those numbers, I was most surprised by two things: how bad we were in 2010 (#61) and how good we were in 2017 (#23). Of course, I knew we were bad in 2010, but that was worse than I expected. On the other hand, Benson and Marshall ran all over people in 2017. We were even better in 2018 (#19) despite becoming almost a double wing team during some of the season -- Brad Stewart had most receiving yards with only 268, lowest leading receiver in CPJ era.


I was also surprised that our offense was better in 2017 and 2018 than in 2016 ---- 2016 was a good year overall, obviously, plus we had JT + Mills. The fact that we were trending upwards on offense after that is interesting. One wonders what might have been in 2019 with L. Johnson, T. Oliver, Graham, or (Jacket137's favorite) Yates at the helm.

The Tevin Offense was pretty darn good. Tevin had a QBR of 155.4 in 2011, which would have put him at #13 nationally that year. His 147.4 the next year would have him at #26. The 2012 rating is probably more impressive, given that he lost Hill and was working with Moore and Greene out wide. A young Darren Waller was on that squad....maybe we should have just started chucking it up to him.


If Chadwell or whomever else can come in here and field a top 25 offense 60% of the time and a top 5 offense 20% of the time, I'd be happy and think the offense is doing well. I suspect most people feel similarly.
 

JacketOff

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I too hate it when my under-recruited 2 or 3-star QB turns out to be an NFL prospect with long shot Heisman odds because my offense didn’t get him prepared for the NFL. It’s always such a shame, ya know, when your offense draws NFL attention to your QB because of the absurd numbers he’s putting up. It’s just really too bad the NFL hates QBs who put up absurd numbers because they play in an offense that just can’t develop QBs.

What I really like though, is getting a highly touted 4-star QB with all the tools, measurables, and potential in the world, and he goes through 4 years of college ball and gets absolutely no better. Those are just the best situations for QBs to go through. The NFL salivates over those guys who are the same at 22 as they were at 18. They love ‘em.
 
Ibeeballin

Ibeeballin

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ibeattetris said:
The option *definitely* doesn't prepare or develop or prepare a QB for the NFL







If any recruit can be negatively recruited against in the way people in this thread are saying, I seriously doubt their analytical abilities will merit matriculation at GT. If a recruit has doubts about the option, and you show them clips of Lamar Jackson currently in the NFL, I don't really see how they can decide option will negatively affect them.
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Yayyyy…. Let’s choose the QB that runs 4.3 and with a cannon for an arm. Let’s not forget Bill Polian & other GMs were saying Lamar needs to be WR coming out

Next will we see Shaq Mason as example for OL
 
ibeattetris

ibeattetris

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Ibeeballin said:
Yayyyy…. Let’s choose the QB that runs 4.3 and with a cannon for an arm. Let’s not forget Bill Polian & other GMs were saying Lamar needs to be WR coming out

Next will we see Shaq Mason as example for OL
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I picked one of many.

Try not to ignore the fact that Deshaun Watson ran the option at Clemson. Mariota ran option at Oregon. Jameis and Trevor Lawrence both ran some option in their years as well.

None of those offenses ran the option exclusively, but neither did GT (25% of plays were true triple option). If you have an NFL caliber athlete you obviously are going to throw more. Chadwell has been throwing the ball a lot with their stud QB. With the back up playing this week, I bet you they are going to run the ball a lot more. Because good coaches will adapt to their personnel.
 
Techster

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stylee said:
Top 25 OFEI seems like a fair metric. We hit that 6 out of 10 years, with highs of #2 (2009 and 2014), plus two top 15 finishes (#13 in 2011 and #15 in 2012).

Looking at those numbers, I was most surprised by two things: how bad we were in 2010 (#61) and how good we were in 2017 (#23). Of course, I knew we were bad in 2010, but that was worse than I expected. On the other hand, Benson and Marshall ran all over people in 2017. We were even better in 2018 (#19) despite becoming almost a double wing team during some of the season -- Brad Stewart had most receiving yards with only 268, lowest leading receiver in CPJ era.


I was also surprised that our offense was better in 2017 and 2018 than in 2016 ---- 2016 was a good year overall, obviously, plus we had JT + Mills. The fact that we were trending upwards on offense after that is interesting. One wonders what might have been in 2019 with L. Johnson, T. Oliver, Graham, or (Jacket137's favorite) Yates at the helm.

The Tevin Offense was pretty darn good. Tevin had a QBR of 155.4 in 2011, which would have put him at #13 nationally that year. His 147.4 the next year would have him at #26. The 2012 rating is probably more impressive, given that he lost Hill and was working with Moore and Greene out wide. A young Darren Waller was on that squad....maybe we should have just started chucking it up to him.


If Chadwell or whomever else can come in here and field a top 25 offense 60% of the time and a top 5 offense 20% of the time, I'd be happy and think the offense is doing well. I suspect most people feel similarly.
Click to expand...

I did some research last year. Chadwell/McCall had ALL TIME best passing efficiency numbers. Since they started tracking passing efficiency in 1956, Chadwell and McCall have had 2 of the all time best passing efficiency marks. McCall's 2021 season ranked #1 (!!!!) all time, and his 2020 season ranked #18 all time.

www.sports-reference.com

Passing Efficiency Rating Single Season Leaders and Records | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Passing Efficiency Rating Single Season Leaders and Records
www.sports-reference.com www.sports-reference.com

If anyone thinks Chadwell's offense is just the option, the passing stats blows that argument out of the water.
 
ibeattetris

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Ibeeballin said:
Running option plays and having option as the foundation of your scheme is the same
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You are completely ignoring my point on purpose. NFL teams are willing to utilize option when the talent is there. Running option will not hinder your ability to play if you are good enough.

Clemson was primarily a spread option team prior to getting NFL talent at QB and they adjusted their offense accordingly while still leveraging the plays. Oregon was definitely running option as part of its main suite when Mariota was there.

I believe Chadwell is capable of doing the same, but I don't honestly care as he isn't the coach I would pick. These arguments are very disingenuous though when the majority of teams are running option to some capactiy and there have been enough players that have made the jump to the NFL when they have been good enough.
 

stylee

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Techster said:
I did some research last year. Chadwell/McCall had ALL TIME best passing efficiency numbers. Since they started tracking passing efficiency in 1956, Chadwell and McCall have had 2 of the all time best passing efficiency marks. McCall's 2021 season ranked #1 (!!!!) all time, and his 2020 season ranked #18 all time.

www.sports-reference.com

Passing Efficiency Rating Single Season Leaders and Records | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Passing Efficiency Rating Single Season Leaders and Records
www.sports-reference.com www.sports-reference.com

If anyone thinks Chadwell's offense is just the option, the passing stats blows that argument out of the water.
Click to expand...

Wow. I'll go back and watch some of these 2021 games and try to figure out what they're running through the air.
 
ibeattetris

ibeattetris

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Ibeeballin said:
Yayyyy…. Let’s choose the QB that runs 4.3 and with a cannon for an arm. Let’s not forget Bill Polian & other GMs were saying Lamar needs to be WR coming out

Next will we see Shaq Mason as example for OL
Click to expand...

stylee said:
Cam Newton was the #1 overall pick in 2011. Or does he not count because he's too good too?
Click to expand...
Exactly. The problem with these “lets choose the QB that runs 4.3 and has a cannon” arguments is that literally every NFL caliber player has to be a unicorn in some way. You don’t get to be the best of the best otherwise. Even Tebow got a shot at the NFl being an option QB and the dude stunk.
 

JacketFan137

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Augusta_Jacket said:
Well, the new HC will likely have the same issues. Winning is not going to be easy here. At best, we will likely be a 5-6 win team next year, assuming we can keep enough of the talent currently on our team out of the portal. With the HC change, you likely have another lost recruiting class this year. Since we might be a couple more years away from winning football, will the new HC be able to recruit well enough to make that big a difference in a short time? Are any of the potential HC hires better recruiters than Collins was?
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i don’t think it’s impossible for us to be a lot better in the next year or two. we are very young and will only lose like 5 total starters due to graduation, and i doubt most of our younger class men get any decent draft grades so they should be returning. that is assuming they don’t portal which will be predicated on our hire.


ibeattetris said:
The option *definitely* doesn't prepare or develop or prepare a QB for the NFL







If any recruit can be negatively recruited against in the way people in this thread are saying, I seriously doubt their analytical abilities will merit matriculation at GT. If a recruit has doubts about the option, and you show them clips of Lamar Jackson currently in the NFL, I don't really see how they can decide option will negatively affect them.
Click to expand...

you do understand that louisville under petrino was running a pro style offense right? out of all of the top qb’s coming out of college that year he was the only one that had an offense with pro style passing concepts.

and even then the ravens offense is actually holding them back a lot and i say that as a diehard ravens fan. WRs do not want to play in that offense and it hurts the team a lot when it comes to crunch time and we have literally no one getting open. the team finishes the year every year as a top 10 offense but can’t seem to get over the hump. sounds almost exactly like paul johnson’s team most years here
 

stylee

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JacketFan137 said:
i don’t think it’s impossible for us to be a lot better in the next year or two. we are very young and will only lose like 5 total starters due to graduation, and i doubt most of our younger class men get any decent draft grades so they should be returning. that is assuming they don’t portal which will be predicated on our hire.

the portal will be a

you do understand that louisville under petrino was running a pro style offense right? out of all of the top qb’s coming out of college that year he was the only one that had an offense with pro style passing concepts.

and even then the ravens offense is actually holding them back a lot and i say that as a diehard ravens fan. WRs do not want to play in that offense and it hurts the team a lot when it comes to crunch time and we have literally no one getting open. the team finishes the year every year as a top 10 offense but can’t seem to get over the hump. sounds almost exactly like paul johnson’s team most years here
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better to not have a top 10 offense then, it seems. Gotcha.
 
Ibeeballin

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Boy the goalpost has been completely destroyed. So now redefining everything. It what world was Cam & Tebow were considered option QBs
 

JacketFan137

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Ibeeballin said:
Boy the goalpost has been completely destroyed. So now redefining everything. It what world was Cam & Tebow were considered option QBs
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it is quite clear that a good portion of this place is so far into the option lore they really don’t want to engage with the conversation anymore and would rather just say ridiculous things cause they don’t respond well to criticism of their deity, chadwell.
 

stylee

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Ibeeballin said:
Boy the goalpost has been completely destroyed. So now redefining everything. It what world was Cam & Tebow were considered option QBs
Click to expand...

you want me to send you the Auburn playbook from 2010? What percentage of plays have to be options for an offense to count as an option offense? Auburn 2010 based much of their offense around zone reads and QB power runs. There's really no point in being pedantic about it.


JacketFan137 said:
it is quite clear that a good portion of this place is so far into the option lore they really don’t want to engage with the conversation anymore and would rather just say ridiculous things cause they don’t respond well to criticism of their deity, chadwell.
Click to expand...

I like Chadwell but haven't seen enough to have a super-strong opinion. I'm very happy to engage in conversation. I'm just not following what you guys are saying about the negative recruiting angle. My "argument" is pretty simple:

1) I don't think the negative recruiting against Chadwell would be as great as it was against CPJ
2) Despite the negative recruiting against CPJ, he still managed to recruit well enough to field a top-25 offense most years, including in his last two years
3) Thus, I don't see this as a very good knock against Chadwell - he will probably recruit offensive players at least as well as CPJ.

Will we scare off some 5* QBs because of it? Maybe, IDK. But the chances GT will get any 5* QBs is extraordinarily low anyway. What we'll likely get is what we've historically gotten - 3*s, with the odd 4* every once in a while (JT, Sims). Same with WR.
 
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