Offseason workouts

takethepoints

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dressedcheeseside said:
Very impressive stuff. My only concern is the chance of injury and losing a guy for the season or ruining a career. I'm no expert on form but the super wide feet looks like it puts serious pressure on the knees. I hope our SC coaches are closely monitoring these max lift contests.
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That is just what I thought watching the film. He has two form problems: he's not pulling the weight high enough on his chest and he's not bending his knees enough. And, yes, if he keeps doing stuff like that, he'll get hurt.

This isn't that strange, however, for young men who have a lot of natural strength; it's just a matter of practice. Good to see that Camp is this strong.
 

takethepoints

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And one other thing: if your form is good - Quaid's is excellent - you can lift a whole lot more weight. That might seem trivial, but your muscles respond to work. The higher the weight, the more work you do. I correct the occasional young person at my gym by telling him/her to lower the weight on their shoulders when they are doing squats so that the weight is above their center of gravity. If they try it my way, the look on their faces when they suddenly realize that they could probably squat 50 lbs more with no trouble is always priceless.

Btw, a 360 clean by 220 man ain't bad at all. I never did close to that myself.
 
tech_wreck47

tech_wreck47

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OldJacketFan said:
Football :)
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Thank you, I do agree with his comments about going hard etc, I just disagree with not putting emphasis on form. Ive personally been in and out of the gym for close to 10 years and in that spand I've trained with a personal trainer, had two work out partners who either was a personal trainer or ran some crossfit classes and made work outs for them. Ive also worked out with guys who have been in the gym for a very long time, and if I've learned one thing through research myself or others I've trained with, it's you keep your form if you want to get stronger, so I don't see the point in losing form to lift more weight when it's not making you stronger? Also why take a higher risk of injuries to lift that weight if it's not benefiting them? Especially if you already have chance of injuries when on the field? You are now doubling your chance of an injury when you could just drop weight, do it right and get stronger in doing so. Beside that I agree with what he was saying.
 
vamosjackets

vamosjackets

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tech_wreck47 said:
Thank you, I do agree with his comments about going hard etc, I just disagree with not putting emphasis on form. Ive personally been in and out of the gym for close to 10 years and in that spand I've trained with a personal trainer, had two work out partners who either was a personal trainer or ran some crossfit classes and made work outs for them. Ive also worked out with guys who have been in the gym for a very long time, and if I've learned one thing through research myself or others I've trained with, it's you keep your form if you want to get stronger, so I don't see the point in losing form to lift more weight when it's not making you stronger? Also why take a higher risk of injuries to lift that weight if it's not benefiting them? Especially if you already have chance of injuries when on the field? You are now doubling your chance of an injury when you could just drop weight, do it right and get stronger in doing so. Beside that I agree with what he was saying.
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In the everyday workout, of course, you want to work on form. Your form doing 10 reps at 70% might be mostly perfect while your 2 reps at 90%, your form might suffer. You're getting stronger either way. This wasn't a workout, it was a max-out day. It's just you trying to do the most you can do for one rep. As long as you get the weight from point A to point B, it counts. It's like when you're on the goalline, sometimes form goes out the window, you're just trying to get it across the goalline by whatever means necessary ... and as long as the ball crosses the plane, it counts.

I really don't see that big of an injury risk in Jalen's form. It's not perfect, and if he focused on getting perfect Olympic form like Quaide, he could do more. But, it would take a lot of work for him to get there. They're not at GT to become Olympic lifters, so taking the kind of time it takes to get that kind of perfect form is going to be a bit counter-productive. Camp is there to become the best at football ... strength is a big part of that equation ... Camp is getting stronger regardless of perfect Olympic form vs imperfect form. For a clean, you have to change levels quickly ... there are two ways to do that - widen your base as you drop, or just drop. Widening your base is something I've seen tons of football players do because doing it the other way requires a LOT of work on advanced technique. Widening your base doesn't make you more injury prone or anything, that I can tell, and I've never seen any injury caused by that particular flaw in technique on cleans.
 
ilovetheoption

ilovetheoption

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vamosjackets said:
In the everyday workout, of course, you want to work on form. Your form doing 10 reps at 70% might be mostly perfect while your 2 reps at 90%, your form might suffer. You're getting stronger either way. This wasn't a workout, it was a max-out day. It's just you trying to do the most you can do for one rep. As long as you get the weight from point A to point B, it counts. It's like when you're on the goalline, sometimes form goes out the window, you're just trying to get it across the goalline by whatever means necessary ... and as long as the ball crosses the plane, it counts.

I really don't see that big of an injury risk in Jalen's form. It's not perfect, and if he focused on getting perfect Olympic form like Quaide, he could do more. But, it would take a lot of work for him to get there. They're not at GT to become Olympic lifters, so taking the kind of time it takes to get that kind of perfect form is going to be a bit counter-productive. Camp is there to become the best at football ... strength is a big part of that equation ... Camp is getting stronger regardless of perfect Olympic form vs imperfect form. For a clean, you have to change levels quickly ... there are two ways to do that - widen your base as you drop, or just drop. Widening your base is something I've seen tons of football players do because doing it the other way requires a LOT of work on advanced technique. Widening your base doesn't make you more injury prone or anything, that I can tell, and I've never seen any injury caused by that particular flaw in technique on cleans.
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If I read your post correctly, you acknowledge that lifting less with good form is just as good for you (in terms of building strength) as lifting more with poor form.

So the benefits are equal for the two options.

The question, then, is are the downsides equal?

If they are not, then you have a pretty easy decision as to what the players should be doing.
 
dressedcheeseside

dressedcheeseside

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vamosjackets said:
In the everyday workout, of course, you want to work on form. Your form doing 10 reps at 70% might be mostly perfect while your 2 reps at 90%, your form might suffer. You're getting stronger either way. This wasn't a workout, it was a max-out day. It's just you trying to do the most you can do for one rep. As long as you get the weight from point A to point B, it counts. It's like when you're on the goalline, sometimes form goes out the window, you're just trying to get it across the goalline by whatever means necessary ... and as long as the ball crosses the plane, it counts.

I really don't see that big of an injury risk in Jalen's form. It's not perfect, and if he focused on getting perfect Olympic form like Quaide, he could do more. But, it would take a lot of work for him to get there. They're not at GT to become Olympic lifters, so taking the kind of time it takes to get that kind of perfect form is going to be a bit counter-productive. Camp is there to become the best at football ... strength is a big part of that equation ... Camp is getting stronger regardless of perfect Olympic form vs imperfect form. For a clean, you have to change levels quickly ... there are two ways to do that - widen your base as you drop, or just drop. Widening your base is something I've seen tons of football players do because doing it the other way requires a LOT of work on advanced technique. Widening your base doesn't make you more injury prone or anything, that I can tell, and I've never seen any injury caused by that particular flaw in technique on cleans.
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Were you at Tech when Roddy dislocated his wrist lifting weights?
 
Whiskey_Clear

Whiskey_Clear

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Craig Page broke some records...I know the school stopped publicizing lift records but I really wish they hadn't and I'd like to see it resume. With the old records and benchmarks. How pumped would guys get when nearing or beating the max of a Craig Page, Pat Swilling, etc?
 
tech_wreck47

tech_wreck47

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vamosjackets said:
In the everyday workout, of course, you want to work on form. Your form doing 10 reps at 70% might be mostly perfect while your 2 reps at 90%, your form might suffer. You're getting stronger either way. This wasn't a workout, it was a max-out day. It's just you trying to do the most you can do for one rep. As long as you get the weight from point A to point B, it counts. It's like when you're on the goalline, sometimes form goes out the window, you're just trying to get it across the goalline by whatever means necessary ... and as long as the ball crosses the plane, it counts.

I really don't see that big of an injury risk in Jalen's form. It's not perfect, and if he focused on getting perfect Olympic form like Quaide, he could do more. But, it would take a lot of work for him to get there. They're not at GT to become Olympic lifters, so taking the kind of time it takes to get that kind of perfect form is going to be a bit counter-productive. Camp is there to become the best at football ... strength is a big part of that equation ... Camp is getting stronger regardless of perfect Olympic form vs imperfect form. For a clean, you have to change levels quickly ... there are two ways to do that - widen your base as you drop, or just drop. Widening your base is something I've seen tons of football players do because doing it the other way requires a LOT of work on advanced technique. Widening your base doesn't make you more injury prone or anything, that I can tell, and I've never seen any injury caused by that particular flaw in technique on cleans.
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I really do get where you are coming from, and I'm fine with losing a little bit of form, but that's not what I saw from camp. I wouldn't even count that as 1 full rep, he didn't even really squat it, it was only half way, and that's why I said I don't like it. If he would half set in like Q I don't think he would have gotten it up. I agree with how you get stronger even if you lose a little form on the back side of your rep. I understand you must push yourself and if your form is 100% perfect your probably not doing enough, so I think my comments probably haven't came across how it should have.

I guess my main point is, you can get strong without doing what I saw because it wasn't really doing anything when it wasn't a full rep, and on top of that the form was bad. I just don't see the point in doubling the chance of injury when you have that chance on the field already.
 

gtcole

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tech_wreck47 said:
I really do get where you are coming from, and I'm fine with losing a little bit of form, but that's not what I saw from camp. I wouldn't even count that as 1 full rep, he didn't even really squat it, it was only half way, and that's why I said I don't like it. If he would half set in like Q I don't think he would have gotten it up. I agree with how you get stronger even if you lose a little form on the back side of your rep. I understand you must push yourself and if your form is 100% perfect your probably not doing enough, so I think my comments probably haven't came across how it should have.

I guess my main point is, you can get strong without doing what I saw because it wasn't really doing anything when it wasn't a full rep, and on top of that the form was bad. I just don't see the point in doubling the chance of injury when you have that chance on the field already.
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The squat is typically the easy part. Camp is making harder on himself, not easier. Dropping low like Q helps you get more weight. I see no issues with either form. The Camp technique is more common than the Q technique for non olympic/power lifters.
 
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