Next Up - Revenge - Hopefully Sweet

CLM

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
292
Usher is now 4-29 from 3. He hustles and tries hard but he is just not a smart player. He is reckless and turns the ball over. Moore is not an ACC player from it looks like. He can play defense but he is shooting 30% from 3. We have Alvarado and Devoe but we can not get a shooter. We need a Marvin Lewis like shooter and our team is just completely different. A guy who can make 2-4 threes a game, doesn’t turn the ball over and plays smart. It is sad and it’s just tiring that we continue to go though this year over year. We are stuck with JP because he make a one year NIT run and we think it’s good to give him an extension. Did that with BG too. He didn’t even make an NIT run to get his extension. This just sucks. I sure hope we take back our appeal on the postseason ban. I have not heard anything yet.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,030
HIPAA laws.

There are no HIPPA laws about a kid who's "quit." When he dresses and travels, it's not a medical hold-out. I'm not taking sides on whether or not Devoe has good reason to say he's not ready to play. I'm just saying that "We can't let you play" differs from "I don't feel I can play."

This was not a good game. Cole played like he got more praise for his big dunk against Morehouse than for the fact that he crapped-out two easy buckets. Regardless, a Pastner Tech team is not going to win many giving up 82.

Pastner should've said, "It seems Coach Bray's use of Notre Dame's money was well spent."
 

jacketup

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,551
This game is an example of why I no longer watch college basketball. But I do check stats. 22 fouls against GT, 9 against ND. You won't convince me that in a competently (and unbiased) officiated game with two teams of equal skill that a foul disparity like that one can happen.

All the GT fouling didn't happen at the end. Midway during the second half it was 15 GT fouls to 5 for ND. It's not just the FT scoring disparity. Put a center in foul trouble early for most teams, and the other team can have their way in the paint. So chalk the result of this one, and many other college basketball games, to the zebras. The foul disparity is all you need to know about the game. Poor officiating has ruined college basketball. I don't know what a foul is or isn't anymore.
 

Backstreetbuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
534
As I have been saying for 20 years, it’s all about the 3. I know we only have 10 or so games left, but I would absolutely pull Sjolund’s redshirt. Hopefully Maxwell, Sjolund and a healthy DeVoe will help next year. Great game by Alvarado, good game by Wright
 

GTbball2016

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,108
There are no HIPPA laws about a kid who's "quit." When he dresses and travels, it's not a medical hold-out. I'm not taking sides on whether or not Devoe has good reason to say he's not ready to play. I'm just saying that "We can't let you play" differs from "I don't feel I can play."

This was not a good game. Cole played like he got more praise for his big dunk against Morehouse than for the fact that he crapped-out two easy buckets. Regardless, a Pastner Tech team is not going to win many giving up 82.

Pastner should've said, "It seems Coach Bray's use of Notre Dame's money was well spent."

So you’re implying he’s choosing not to play?
 

YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,272
On Ushers charge ND had 4 defenders at the charge circle. They didn't give our "shooters" any respect at all. That we scored 40 in the paint is impressive given at least 4 defenders were always there. They ignored Bubba, Usher and Moore. That's part of why we had 5 turnovers - they were not guarding the wing so we didn't turn it over.

Calls were interesting given we were shooting at the rim with multiple defenders and few calls. They won the game at the line as we fouled their drives I don't get how they didn't foul us in the phone booth

Mooney was really good. He outran us and they found him. Also found him on the pop really well.

Jose played really well but seemed to fade down the stretch. That we used him at the foul line against their zone didn't help

Most of all though my kingdom for a shooter
 

JacketOff

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,012
This game is an example of why I no longer watch college basketball. But I do check stats. 22 fouls against GT, 9 against ND. You won't convince me that in a competently (and unbiased) officiated game with two teams of equal skill that a foul disparity like that one can happen.

All the GT fouling didn't happen at the end. Midway during the second half it was 15 GT fouls to 5 for ND. It's not just the FT scoring disparity. Put a center in foul trouble early for most teams, and the other team can have their way in the paint. So chalk the result of this one, and many other college basketball games, to the zebras. The foul disparity is all you need to know about the game. Poor officiating has ruined college basketball. I don't know what a foul is or isn't anymore.
Well, considering Notre Dame averages the fewest personal fouls per game in the nation by nearly a full foul at 12.5 per game, and Tech is ranked 230th at 18.2 per game, it’s pretty believable. Sure, there’s almost always going to be a couple questionable calls, but both teams committed fouls basically the same they have all year. Let’s not cry wolf for no reason.
 

GTbball2016

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,108
I think "quit" is a little stronger than "choosing not to play". And uncalled for

All I know is I’m freaking sick of GT playing guys with ankle injuries when they’re banged up and end up losing them for more games down the road. The training staff is a joke and has been for years.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,586
Well, considering Notre Dame averages the fewest personal fouls per game in the nation by nearly a full foul at 12.5 per game, and Tech is ranked 230th at 18.2 per game, it’s pretty believable. Sure, there’s almost always going to be a couple questionable calls, but both teams committed fouls basically the same they have all year. Let’s not cry wolf for no reason.

So they were 3.5 fouls less than their average and we were 4 more than ours. Or, let me put that another way. They fouled 28% less than their average and we fouled 21% more than our average.

GT averages 18 FTA per game. We shot 12. ND averages 16.5 FTA per game. They shot 28.

ND's opponents on average foul them 15.9 time per game. GT had 22.

GT's opponents average 17.9 fouls per game. ND had 9.

But yeah. It was just a regular average game and there was "no reason". Okay.
 

CINCYMETJACKET

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,219
And then lose everyone to transfer and basically have the death penalty for next few years. The ban has no chance of being overturned, but Pastner used the appeal because they thought this team could make a run. Like always, he was wrong.

I wouldn't say Pastner used the appeal. That was Stansbury's call, which I agreed with. If we can drop the post-season ban appeal and have it used this year, we should. Not sure if the NCAA would apply it to this year or next year at this point though. Also, I believe that we are appealing other aspects of the punishment as well. Not sure how they're all tied together and if we can drop one part of the appeal but not the others. If it was as simple as we'd like it to be, it would probably have already been done.
 

GTbball2016

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,108
So they were 3.5 fouls less than their average and we were 4 more than ours. Or, let me put that another way. They fouled 28% less than their average and we fouled 21% more than our average.

GT averages 18 FTA per game. We shot 12. ND averages 16.5 FTA per game. They shot 28.

ND's opponents on average foul them 15.9 time per game. GT had 22.

GT's opponents average 17.9 fouls per game. ND had 9.

But yeah. It was just a regular average game and there was "no reason". Okay.

Brey’s tantrum the other day definitely helped ND this week. WF got shafted on calls against them on Wednesday.
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
All I know is I’m freaking sick of GT playing guys with ankle injuries when they’re banged up and end up losing them for more games down the road. The training staff is a joke and has been for years.

Yep. We play good basketball when we have our full roster. But it feels like over the past few years we’ve had our full roster like 20% of the time.
 

GTbball2016

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,108
Yep. We play good basketball when we have our full roster. But it feels like over the past few years we’ve had our full roster like 20% of the time.

Well the lack of depth has killed, as there has been a gigantic drop off from the starters to the bench. Phillips and Parham were expected to be so much more impactful.
 

GTbball2016

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,108
At this point I don't know if it matters which year we are banned from post-season. I have no faith Pastner is getting any team there

Very true, I just don’t want to see the transfers this offseason if the ban is in place for next year.
 

GTsports1819

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
69
There's a difference between giving this staff a pass and understanding the harsh realities of the GTAA's finances.

I like Pastner. Seems like a good dude. Kids appear to love him.

His coaching has been better than expected, his recruiting way less than expected.

Some weird **** has happened on his watch.

I wish things could have worked out differently to date.

Would love to see some sort of turnaround, but I don't think he's the long term solution.

I feel pretty confident he'll be our coach next season because we shouldn't get ourselves further in the hole with buyouts until we are ready to make a real commitment to basketball. Maybe that plan is being worked on, but it shouldn't be set in motion until football is fully taken care of.

I see the distinction, I was also really pulling for him. He seemed like a good guy who couldn't get out of the giant shadow Calipari left behind at Memphis. After his first season here, I was hoping we found the right coach. But the progression hasn't been there. This season, to say that he has underperformed is an understatement. He said we could make the tournament with the talent we have, but we aren't any closer than we have been in years past. It's is similar to his second year when we had Okogie, Lammers, and Tadric (veteran group of players that aren't being put in the best position to succeed as well as lack of depth - which we can now chalk up largely to poor recruiting). Is the offense better? Sure. But for every improvement, there's a setback - eg turnover rate this season.

Has there been weird **** under his watch? Definitely, but some of that may be his own fault. I understand he was trying to help out his friend, but having Ron Bell close to the program was clearly a very poor judgement call given the way things unfolded. It's hard to say exactly how much Pastner knew about the DLab situation and NCAA violations we're facing, but one could reasonably conclude he wasn't totally in the dark. If he was, then that is also a problem. As head coach he is responsible for oversight. So there has to be at least some accountability with regards to this point.

It may be that the AD wants to wait for a more financially advantageous time to fix the basketball program. But at some point there is no perfect time, and we are also losing money by keeping him around. With the amount of funds we do have, it seems like we could feasibly make a change but it may cause some reallocation/strain/flexibility with our athletic fund. Seems to me that the bigger issue is that our program is facing NCAA violations next year. No good coach will want to walk into that. Fine.
But what if we have a successful appeal? Or what if the sanctions stay in place this year? At that point, if the AD decides the finances can be rearranged, I think it's fine for us to commit to turning this program around. I won't pretend to know all of the in's and out's, as that is what we have an AD for. But at some point, I would like to believe we can get ourselves out of this decade-long hole we've gotten into. And I'm not sure that one additional year which would save us $2-2.5M makes that big of a difference - If the right coach is out there, I would love to see us go for it and commit to rebuilding the program to a competitive level that we all want it to reach. I'm tired seeing us lose to mediocre teams and then making poor excuses after the fact.

If the candidate pool is not up to par, then yes, save the money and ride it out so we can get a quality coach who has a proven record.
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
I see the distinction, I was also really pulling for him. He seemed like a good guy who couldn't get out of the giant shadow Calipari left behind at Memphis. After his first season here, I was hoping we found the right coach. But the progression hasn't been there. This season, to say that he has underperformed is an understatement. He said we could make the tournament with the talent we have, but we aren't any closer than we have been in years past. It's is similar to his second year when we had Okogie, Lammers, and Tadric (veteran group of players that aren't being put in the best position to succeed as well as lack of depth - which we can now chalk up largely to poor recruiting). Is the offense better? Sure. But for every improvement, there's a setback - eg turnover rate this season.

Has there been weird **** under his watch? Definitely, but some of that may be his own fault. I understand he was trying to help out his friend, but having Ron Bell close to the program was clearly a very poor judgement call given the way things unfolded. It's hard to say exactly how much Pastner knew about the DLab situation and NCAA violations we're facing, but one could reasonably conclude he wasn't totally in the dark. If he was, then that is also a problem. As head coach he is responsible for oversight. So there has to be at least some accountability with regards to this point.

It may be that the AD wants to wait for a more financially advantageous time to fix the basketball program. But at some point there is no perfect time, and we are also losing money by keeping him around. With the amount of funds we do have, it seems like we could feasibly make a change but it may cause some reallocation/strain/flexibility with our athletic fund. Seems to me that the bigger issue is that our program is facing NCAA violations next year. No good coach will want to walk into that. Fine.
But what if we have a successful appeal? Or what if the sanctions stay in place this year? At that point, if the AD decides the finances can be rearranged, I think it's fine for us to commit to turning this program around. I won't pretend to know all of the in's and out's, as that is what we have an AD for. But at some point, I would like to believe we can get ourselves out of this decade-long hole we've gotten into. And I'm not sure that one additional year which would save us $2-2.5M makes that big of a difference - If the right coach is out there, I would love to see us go for it and commit to rebuilding the program to a competitive level that we all want it to reach.

If the candidate pool is not up to par, then yes, save the money and ride it out so we can get a quality coach who has a proven record.

We could have made the tournament with the talent we had. I still believe that today. But that doesn’t help if you’re missing your players most of the season.
 
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