NCAA Ruling - Postseason Ban, Among Other Bogus Things...
- Thread starter joehamiltonfan14
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Techster
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In terms of on the court, it only affects this year...which is unfortunate because this is probably Pastner's best team since he was hired, and I feel bad for our guys who have developed and put in time for this kind of year. Hopefully our guys put blinders on and take it out on the other team. We can still have a VERY nice year...maybe get those fake championship rings UCF got themselves...ahem..
On a tangential note, until Duke and Coach K start getting mentioned in these notice of allegations, F$%K the NCAA. It's been a wide open joke on social media and messageboards, with PHOTOS EVIDENCE of players parents living in a high end neighborhood, and basketball (NBA and college) players openly saying Duke is paying players. Arizona, Kentucky, and Kansas isn't losing players to Duke because Coach K and the coeds of Durham are a better pull than hundreds of thousands of $$$ for a year of basketball. It's been an open dirty secret for almost a decade now.
Anyhow, rant over...
On a tangential note, until Duke and Coach K start getting mentioned in these notice of allegations, F$%K the NCAA. It's been a wide open joke on social media and messageboards, with PHOTOS EVIDENCE of players parents living in a high end neighborhood, and basketball (NBA and college) players openly saying Duke is paying players. Arizona, Kentucky, and Kansas isn't losing players to Duke because Coach K and the coeds of Durham are a better pull than hundreds of thousands of $$$ for a year of basketball. It's been an open dirty secret for almost a decade now.
Anyhow, rant over...
BonafideJacket
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Unfortunately, this seems to really be the case. If you read the decision, its clear most of the evidence used by the NCAA was obtained with the assistance of GT, particularly phone records. The NCAA has no subpoena power and employee's personal phones are not generally subject to FOIA. At this point, there's no credit for cooperating and the NCAA has no recourse other than hammering you with the exact same penalties either way.
Never Cooperate with these Aholes.....A
Techster
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Double edged sword. NCAA will also hammer you for NOT cooperating. In fact, the reason why our 2009 ACC Championship was taken away** (take away my memories NCAA!!) was because Radakovich was specifically told not to tell CPJ or the players they were being investigated, which he did. It wasn't the petty "crime" (like a few hundred in merchandise that DT gave back), it was Radakovich's action that went against the NCAA.
In summary, F&%K you ncaa. (I will no longer capitalize ncaa...because F$%K them...like uga)
BonafideJacket
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True, but a lot has happened since 2009, including the NCAA's faceplant on Sandusky and their cowardice on UNC fake classes. The NCAA has gotten gun-shy when faced with significant pushback, particularly litigation, and instead is hammering cooperative schools who are less likely to file litigation or spend significant funds fighting them (see the Missouri bowl ban).
GT14
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Sent to GT-ALL at 4:36 yesterday, less than 5 hours after the release:
Subject: Comment on Today's NCAA Report
Students, Faculty and Staff:
This morning, the NCAA Committee on Infractions issued its report regarding violations that took place in the Georgia Tech men’s basketball program in 2016-2017. As president and as an alumnus I am deeply disappointed by these violations, which are inconsistent with our values and our legacy of principled competition in intercollegiate athletics. I am encouraged that our athletics department leadership took immediate action once the violations came to light. It must be an institutional priority to ensure this type of conduct never occurs again at Georgia Tech.
I am struck by the severity of the penalties imposed by the NCAA and the impact some of them will have on student athletes who had nothing to do with the violations. While I respect the Committee’s work on this case, we are exploring our options as to whether to appeal some aspects of the decision.
Regardless of the outcomes of this process, we are committed to maintaining the highest level of ethical standards in Athletics and across the Institute. I know Todd Stansbury, Georgia Tech’s Athletic Director and a fellow alumnus, feels as strongly as I do.
___________________
Ángel Cabrera
President, Georgia Tech
Subject: Comment on Today's NCAA Report
Students, Faculty and Staff:
This morning, the NCAA Committee on Infractions issued its report regarding violations that took place in the Georgia Tech men’s basketball program in 2016-2017. As president and as an alumnus I am deeply disappointed by these violations, which are inconsistent with our values and our legacy of principled competition in intercollegiate athletics. I am encouraged that our athletics department leadership took immediate action once the violations came to light. It must be an institutional priority to ensure this type of conduct never occurs again at Georgia Tech.
I am struck by the severity of the penalties imposed by the NCAA and the impact some of them will have on student athletes who had nothing to do with the violations. While I respect the Committee’s work on this case, we are exploring our options as to whether to appeal some aspects of the decision.
Regardless of the outcomes of this process, we are committed to maintaining the highest level of ethical standards in Athletics and across the Institute. I know Todd Stansbury, Georgia Tech’s Athletic Director and a fellow alumnus, feels as strongly as I do.
___________________
Ángel Cabrera
President, Georgia Tech
BonafideJacket
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2009 - Bebe's $300 in clothing and men's basketball on-campus tournaments (ie "improper tryouts") - sanctions issued in 2011.
2011-2012 - Improper texts and phone calls by basketball staff because our compliance staff was incompetent - sanctions issued in 2014.
So 3 major violations involving MBB in 8 years per the NCAA.
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I read the whole 27 page document this morning, it is interesting to read.
GT got hit hard not for the Ron Bell stuff - which was classified as Level II and the penalties were largely to disassociate with the Bell (the suspensions of Okogie and Jackson were related to this as well).
Labarrie's violations are what killed the program. Both of his violations were seen as Level I by the NCAA. Both taking the prospect and his host to a strip club and also lying to the NCAA and GT about his involvement with it.
GT was also hit harder because of previous Level I and Level II violations in its athletics programs. GT was given credit for 3 mitigating factors - prompt acknowledgement and acceptance of the violations, taking steps to remedy it, and a history of self-reporting level II and II violations. But importantly, GT was not given credit for 'exemplary cooperation' as it said GT did not uncover the violations (a failure of its compliance).
The strip club visit really bothered the NCAA committee. It was the actions on that official visit that caused the NCAA to hand down the penalty where GT is not allowed to have any official visits during a home basketball game for the next 2 seasons. Basically all the recruiting penalties were handed down due to what Labarrie did on the official visit and him lying about it afterwards. When he went back for his second interview with the NCAA he claimed he did know about what happened, but said it was Jack's idea. The NCAA did not believe him because of the actions of Jack and the Associate Athletics Director (I think Lewis) don't support that.
The vacation of records was also due to Labarrie. The ineligible athlete was the host who escorted Carter on his OV. By going to the strip club and going to have dinner at the lounge and not pay for it it made him ineligible.
The NCAA did mention that they assigned the label of booster to Bell after he took 2 student-athletes (i'm assuming Okogie and Jackson) out to a dinner at an Atlanta Steakhouse and paid for it. After that all the benefits he provided to them were considered benefits provided by a booster according to the NCAA.
Reading how Bell would operate is sort of insane. The report mentions multiple times that Pastner told him to never give anything to the SA's, that following NCAA rules were important to him. When he would visit campus Bell would leave with Pastner after a game or practice, but then circle back after Pastner had left to meet with SA's. He also specifically told the SA's never to mention to Pastner that he gave them anything.
GT got hit hard not for the Ron Bell stuff - which was classified as Level II and the penalties were largely to disassociate with the Bell (the suspensions of Okogie and Jackson were related to this as well).
Labarrie's violations are what killed the program. Both of his violations were seen as Level I by the NCAA. Both taking the prospect and his host to a strip club and also lying to the NCAA and GT about his involvement with it.
GT was also hit harder because of previous Level I and Level II violations in its athletics programs. GT was given credit for 3 mitigating factors - prompt acknowledgement and acceptance of the violations, taking steps to remedy it, and a history of self-reporting level II and II violations. But importantly, GT was not given credit for 'exemplary cooperation' as it said GT did not uncover the violations (a failure of its compliance).
The strip club visit really bothered the NCAA committee. It was the actions on that official visit that caused the NCAA to hand down the penalty where GT is not allowed to have any official visits during a home basketball game for the next 2 seasons. Basically all the recruiting penalties were handed down due to what Labarrie did on the official visit and him lying about it afterwards. When he went back for his second interview with the NCAA he claimed he did know about what happened, but said it was Jack's idea. The NCAA did not believe him because of the actions of Jack and the Associate Athletics Director (I think Lewis) don't support that.
The vacation of records was also due to Labarrie. The ineligible athlete was the host who escorted Carter on his OV. By going to the strip club and going to have dinner at the lounge and not pay for it it made him ineligible.
The NCAA did mention that they assigned the label of booster to Bell after he took 2 student-athletes (i'm assuming Okogie and Jackson) out to a dinner at an Atlanta Steakhouse and paid for it. After that all the benefits he provided to them were considered benefits provided by a booster according to the NCAA.
Reading how Bell would operate is sort of insane. The report mentions multiple times that Pastner told him to never give anything to the SA's, that following NCAA rules were important to him. When he would visit campus Bell would leave with Pastner after a game or practice, but then circle back after Pastner had left to meet with SA's. He also specifically told the SA's never to mention to Pastner that he gave them anything.
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These are the violations referenced in the findings.
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This is essentially what Kansas did earlier in the week, and I guaraningFingT you that it helps them get a lighter sentence.
If schools start becoming more vocal about what is obvious to every fanbase (that isn't a Blue Blood), then they will continue with this bull****.
BTW, agree with you on all points KG1. That is really it. Let the anger subside and it becomes pretty clear. People calling for TStans job are simply misinformed IMO.
Techster
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Interesting that it wasn't worded "I know Todd Stansbury, Georgia Tech’s Athletic Director and a fellow alumnus, and Josh Pastner, our men's BB coach, feels as strongly as I do..."
Seeing as how the basketball issues are why we're in the jam we're in. Basically "Pastner, one more thing from you and it's over..."
GTLorenzo
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LaBarrie really screwed us. It is noted in the report that strip club visits are totally unacceptable multiple times. LaBarrie also looks really bad. Not sure if this (strip club and visit to club after for free dinner) was his idea or not, but he lied to the investigators, then apparently reached out to the player/host and Lewis about his testimony, testified again and lied/misled again. He had a really bright future, but that is all gone now. I assume he could maybe coach a high school team, but I don't see how he gets a college job any time soon.
The Bell stuff is just horrible. The guy is a nut job. Repeatedly told by Pastner to follow the rules, don't do anything against the rules and then does just that. I credit Pastner for trying to help a guy with major life issues, but you must blame him for allowing that guy around his team.
Since Pastner has been at GT, here are things that have been in the sports news and main stream media:
1. Assistant Coach took a high school kid to a strip club and he was given $300 in cash. (Patrick Ewing is at Georgetown right now smiling and saying "$300 wouldn't even get you in the door at the Gold Club in Atlanta back in the day!!")
2. Assistant Coach lied to the NCAA and tried to get a student athlete to lie to the NCAA
3. A former player we all love who took us to our highest highs gave the coach the money to take the high school kid to the strip club
4. A close "friend" of the head coach...
a) Tried to get a transfer player from Memphis to GT
b) took players to a free dinner at a local steakhouse
c) flew two players to his home in AZ and gave them free stuff
d) alleged violations against Pastner
e) alleged sexual assault against Pastner
f) was put in jail for a prior issue, but still noted as part of the GT story
I like Pastner. He's kind of goofy, but actually a better game coach than I imagined when we hired him. All of the above happened under his watch, so he has to accept at least some, if not all, blame for it. I think recruiting will be extremely difficult the next few years. The best we can hope for is a good season this year, keep the commitment we just got, have a better year next year and go to the tourney. That would generate some excitement and possibly help recruiting and PERHAPS be a life line for Pastner. Recruiting against Georgia Tech will be easy the next few years....."on probation....shady coaches....do you want your son going to a strip club....."
If we have a down year this year and next and can't recruit, I assume he's let go after next year. The buyout would be much lower (correct Red?) and most of the probation restrictions would be over or close to over at that point and MAYBE you can get a good coach. It's going to be a tough few years.
The Bell stuff is just horrible. The guy is a nut job. Repeatedly told by Pastner to follow the rules, don't do anything against the rules and then does just that. I credit Pastner for trying to help a guy with major life issues, but you must blame him for allowing that guy around his team.
Since Pastner has been at GT, here are things that have been in the sports news and main stream media:
1. Assistant Coach took a high school kid to a strip club and he was given $300 in cash. (Patrick Ewing is at Georgetown right now smiling and saying "$300 wouldn't even get you in the door at the Gold Club in Atlanta back in the day!!")
2. Assistant Coach lied to the NCAA and tried to get a student athlete to lie to the NCAA
3. A former player we all love who took us to our highest highs gave the coach the money to take the high school kid to the strip club
4. A close "friend" of the head coach...
a) Tried to get a transfer player from Memphis to GT
b) took players to a free dinner at a local steakhouse
c) flew two players to his home in AZ and gave them free stuff
d) alleged violations against Pastner
e) alleged sexual assault against Pastner
f) was put in jail for a prior issue, but still noted as part of the GT story
I like Pastner. He's kind of goofy, but actually a better game coach than I imagined when we hired him. All of the above happened under his watch, so he has to accept at least some, if not all, blame for it. I think recruiting will be extremely difficult the next few years. The best we can hope for is a good season this year, keep the commitment we just got, have a better year next year and go to the tourney. That would generate some excitement and possibly help recruiting and PERHAPS be a life line for Pastner. Recruiting against Georgia Tech will be easy the next few years....."on probation....shady coaches....do you want your son going to a strip club....."
If we have a down year this year and next and can't recruit, I assume he's let go after next year. The buyout would be much lower (correct Red?) and most of the probation restrictions would be over or close to over at that point and MAYBE you can get a good coach. It's going to be a tough few years.
GTrob21
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I think RamblinRed is a poster we should all hold up to admire. His posts are insightful and usually spot on.
I agree with everything you said, except the point about keeping Pastner. I think they should cut him loose, and hire a very young up and coming coach. ( I know the arguments against, and that we don't have the money) BUT... I think its next to impossible for Coach Pastner to recruit or "sell" a recruit or his family on GT... Just look at how he was O'fer last year. In my opinion, he has poisoned the program reputation to such an extent that best thing, would be a new face.
I know what people are going too say...we don't have enough money... and I know that is true after the switch to Collins, but I would hope that Stansbury could make some calls, lay out a compelling vision for some big GT donors and start to VERY LONG process of digging out our basketball program.
I agree with everything you said, except the point about keeping Pastner. I think they should cut him loose, and hire a very young up and coming coach. ( I know the arguments against, and that we don't have the money) BUT... I think its next to impossible for Coach Pastner to recruit or "sell" a recruit or his family on GT... Just look at how he was O'fer last year. In my opinion, he has poisoned the program reputation to such an extent that best thing, would be a new face.
I know what people are going too say...we don't have enough money... and I know that is true after the switch to Collins, but I would hope that Stansbury could make some calls, lay out a compelling vision for some big GT donors and start to VERY LONG process of digging out our basketball program.
GTLorenzo
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Based on my post above and the issues since Pastner was hired, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but we have two major obstacles in firing Pastner.
1. Money. He still has a large buyout and we just used up our entire "rainy day fund" for football.
2. Who would take the job knowing that we are on probation for four years, no on campus visits during games for two years, no tourney this year, etc. No one would take that. In two years, you're past the tourney issue and on campus issue. If he's successful then, great. If not, you let him go then and sell a "bright future" for the program. No one would take the job right now, except may Bryce Drew, our original No. 1 candidate....
1. Money. He still has a large buyout and we just used up our entire "rainy day fund" for football.
2. Who would take the job knowing that we are on probation for four years, no on campus visits during games for two years, no tourney this year, etc. No one would take that. In two years, you're past the tourney issue and on campus issue. If he's successful then, great. If not, you let him go then and sell a "bright future" for the program. No one would take the job right now, except may Bryce Drew, our original No. 1 candidate....
bos
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Don't be that guy. Tstan's hands are cuffed behind his back. Nothing he can do at this point but appeal this.
I don't think you're thinking this through. We all wanna "send that email", but the reality is there's not much that can or should be done other than appeal.
My only beef with him is that he's not telling the NeverCooperateWiththeseAholes...A to shove it or treat everyone equally.