NCAA denies waivers for Clayton, Ezzard; Sims granted immediate eligibility

Whiskey_Clear

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Augusta_Jacket said:
No. I'm not glossing it over. The rule is the rule unless it is changed... Is it arbitrary? Yes. That's beyond the point. Work to change the rule.
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Implement a rule...enforce it strictly regardless of reasonable exceptions, and prepare to lose in court.

Context matters. Reasonableness matters. Failure to utilize either and you had best be prepared to defend yourself from accusations of willful negligence and harm.
 
Augusta_Jacket

Augusta_Jacket

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GT99 said:
You seem to have an odd agenda because you're completely disregarding what everyone is saying. The primary point is that the NCAA hasn't shown any consistency in how they apply their rules (or how quickly). Yes, I think everyone would support Martell or Fields getting a waver to play at GT...just like we all supported Clayton, Ezzard, and Sims getting their waver. That's not hypocrisy.
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Actually, that's what I am arguing is wrong. Overall, the NCAA has shown amazing consistency in how it handles waivers. Statistically, the exceptions we are quoting are anomalies. The Fields, Martells, and similar cases are news BECAUSE they are exceptions. The NCAA was HAMMERED by the media for the Martell waiver and shortly thereafter tightened their rules. When you consider ALL the athletes that transfer, there is an amazing amount of consistency in how they apply their decisions. It's the high profile cases where they are apt to be judged more harshly where they seem to be inconsistent, but again, that's a vast minority of the cases they decide every year.

As for the hypocrisy aspect, if you don't support Martells waiver reasons now, but would if he were coming to GT, well....
 

GoGATech

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Augusta_Jacket said:
The NCAA was HAMMERED by the media for the Martell waiver and shortly thereafter tightened their rules.
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Therein lies another problem. You can't tighten the rules during a transition period. Basically you are letting everyone up to that point get by with the lenient rules, then everybody thereafter is subject to more strict policy. If a rule change was to be made, they should have said it will take effect after this football season.
Augusta_Jacket said:
It's the high profile cases where they are apt to be judged more harshly where they seem to be inconsistent, but again, that's a vast minority of the cases they decide every year.
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And again, it's the high profile cases that seem to all get approved. You can't do that just because those are the ones you have more eyes on. You can't be consistent on everybody "except the high profile cases." That is the very definition of being inconsistent.
 
Supersizethatorder-mutt

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bwelbo said:
@Augusta_Jacket , instead of replying to your post, I'm going to repost mine here. If you go back and look at your entire body of work on this thread, its full of 'but' 'but 'but'...anything to defend the NCAA and nothing to defend Tech (or anybody else). Oh and also, you're wrong. Pick 1 thing, like our kicker missing kicks against Tennessee - he was berated everywhere by our own students. It was sad. You're making up invalid excuses to defend the NCAA. Sad.
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I don't agree with every post that @AugustaJacket makes, but I totally disagree with your assessment of him.
 

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Augusta_Jacket said:
I still stand by my assertion that if Martell, Fields or any other high profile athlete transferred to GT that got a waiver this year, we'd be in full support of it. I love GT and our fanbase, but we can dabble in hypocrisy ourselves if it benefits us.
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I don't think anybody would ever doubt that support. But that's exactly the problem t'aint it.
 
smokey_wasp

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Sounds as though Ezzard won't appeal. I still don't understand why his case wasn't considered strong. His coach retiring and a new coach coming in that supported his decision to transfer? Just stupid..
 
smokey_wasp

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Augusta_Jacket said:
Actually, that's what I am arguing is wrong. Overall, the NCAA has shown amazing consistency in how it handles waivers. Statistically, the exceptions we are quoting are anomalies. The Fields, Martells, and similar cases are news BECAUSE they are exceptions. The NCAA was HAMMERED by the media for the Martell waiver and shortly thereafter tightened their rules. When you consider ALL the athletes that transfer, there is an amazing amount of consistency in how they apply their decisions. It's the high profile cases where they are apt to be judged more harshly where they seem to be inconsistent, but again, that's a vast minority of the cases they decide every year.

As for the hypocrisy aspect, if you don't support Martells waiver reasons now, but would if he were coming to GT, well....
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You're missing it. I don't think anyone here would argue with Martell's waiver getting approved if our guys' did, as well. I doubt we'd ever mention it again.
 
smokey_wasp

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Augusta_Jacket said:
No. What I am saying is if Martell with his "weak" waiver case was coming to GT, then every GT fan here would be arguing for a waiver for him.
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Yeah. It seems like the majority of us are in favor of guys getting at least one free waiver anyway, so I just don't see it as hypocrisy.
 

GoGATech

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Augusta_Jacket said:
No. What I am saying is if Martell with his "weak" waiver case was coming to GT, then every GT fan here would be arguing for a waiver for him.
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You're damn right we would be. We are arguing this for our guys right now specifically BECAUSE his weak case was approved. If there were NO weak cases being approved, we wouldn't be as upset, regardless who the transfer was.
 

GT99

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Augusta_Jacket said:
Actually, that's what I am arguing is wrong. Overall, the NCAA has shown amazing consistency in how it handles waivers. Statistically, the exceptions we are quoting are anomalies.
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If you're going to reference statistics in your argument, I would recommend showing the statistics. I don't have them, but my perception based on what I have seen is that they are not very consistent. I'm certainly open to seeing statistics otherwise, but it's a matter of your perception vs the perception of others at this point. To be clear, they might be consistent in 80% or even 90% of cases - when it comes to enforcing rules, a 10% exception rate still says there is something wrong with the rules or with the enforcement. But I agree with a lot of your other take prior in this thread about what the rules should be.

Augusta_Jacket said:
The Fields, Martells, and similar cases are news BECAUSE they are exceptions.
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No. The Fields and Martells are news because they are high profile athletes, not because they are exceptions. Do you think if Owen Condon had transferred from UGA to Ohio State his waiver status would have been news [I picked a random redshirt freshman off of UGA's team]? Not to anyone outside of UGA or Ohio State.

Regarding hypocrisy, the argument has been around the consistency of the NCAA. You think they have been consistent. Many do not agree. You redirected to a hypocrisy attack not relevant to that conversation. If the NCAA had clear rules to apply consistently, it wouldn't take months to reach a decision, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
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