Nate Woody . . .

65Jacket

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I don't think we should have let him go, we actually had to pay him for a second season after we had fired him.
 

Techster

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Part of those stats is how well army manages the clock as well. Lower number of possessions usually means lower number of points. One of the many reasons why the offense they run is so successful, with a QB that can run it.

Nate Woody has always had a really good defense. His defenses at App State were really good, and a huge reason why CPJ hired him (I believe top 20-30 DFEI every year). I thought he was the perfect DC for CPJ...from a personality standpoint, to how his unique attacking schemes perfectly complemented CPJ's unique offensive schemes.
 

Coloradojacket

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The sad but probably accurate truth is that P5 schools will never hire a triple O coach because you can't recruit to that offense. (And before somebody goes off, I love it even as I acknowledge its fatal flaw. The triple option itself remains the most gorgeous offensive play in football, and nothing is second.) QBs with aspirations are never playing for an offense that gets them hammered on almost every play, and lets them throw half a dozen times at most. Running backs, the premium, 5-star blue chippers, aren't coming to an offense that will either put them at fullback to get hammered along with the QB, or at "A" back where they will touch the ball maybe four times a game. It has nothing to do with selfishness, but a desire to have a chance to do what you do.

Then, unless fans are absolutely committed to the run game, attendance begins to fall, and that is tickets, concessions, parking, programs, souvenirs, etc.

Count the number of QBs Johnson had in 10 years who could throw the ball. One. (Justin Thomas, and even he admitted he knew nothing about technique, he just grabbed the ball and threw it.) Count the A backs who were game changers. One. (Orwin Smith, the guy who looked slow but who could get to the edge on the sweep better than anybody.) Fullbacks? Several good ones. Clemson, Georgia, South Carolina and the North Carolina schools liked recruiting against Johnson because of the offense. Not so much Collins, though he is not in Johnson's class as a coach, but runs a more conventional offense, and we can see that in his recruiting results. He won't get those pursued by Clemson or Georgia but otherwise he is in the hunt.

As for Monken, he has done the best coaching job in football for several years, and has never been a contender for coach of the year. It apparently is the offense because there is no excuse otherwise. He took the job promising to beat Army -- and got a rousing, standing ovation when he said it -- and has made a habit of it. Against Navy his defense was outstanding, again, and he threw one time but shut them out. Navy, meantime, has gimmicked up its triple option and suffered for it. Even Army was running a bit of pistol in that game.

I have always thought Georgia Tech, and Johnson, began its decline when Monken went to Georgia Southern. Johnson never seemed to have his mojo after that, and never had the same relationship with another assistant coach. It is a long way to say Monken is an Army guy for life. And why not? He can recruit 200 players if he can get them in school, and Army would make him a general if he wanted except it would be a huge pay cut.

ok, so I have to respond.
The offense, known as the spread option has so many variables to it but based on the QBs ability is how you do the play calling. Which of course is with all offenses. Actually Tevin was a decent passer and we threw the ball more. CPJs last two years his QBs were runners although I think Oliver could have developed as a passer.

As far as recruiting, yes you can recruit a lot of good players to play in the system. There are those that will not come play but again, if you develop your players in the system they produce. What CGC is doing is trying to recruit at a high level and try to win on talent without a system, We shall see if that experiment works. a 44th ranked recruiting class is not exactly where you wan to be. And before I get the comment...well what about the transfers....well subtract all the transfers that we lost.

A-back game changers.....I think we had more than Orwin Smith. Roddy Jones, Peeples, Ant Allen when he was at A-back, Robby Godhigh. Many were also great blockers.

And for the comment about defense and possessions,.......that is the idea, keep the ball so the other team doesn't score. The best defense is a good offense.

We will see CPJs spread attack again in P5 maybe with variations but everything comes back around.
 

Techster

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We will see CPJs spread attack again in P5 maybe with variations but everything comes back around.

Some enterprising coach will finally mix CPJ's spread option with Mike Leach's Air Raid. That offense will destroy the entire defensive coordinator landscape of football...and it will be a joy to watch.

BTW, Mike Leach did a podcast and said if he didn't run his offense, he would run CPJ's spread option. He thinks it's one of the most sound and most difficult offenses to plan for.
 

jojatk

Ramblin' Wreck
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703
Some enterprising coach will finally mix CPJ's spread option with Mike Leach's Air Raid. That offense will destroy the entire defensive coordinator landscape of football...and it will be a joy to watch.

BTW, Mike Leach did a podcast and said if he didn't run his offense, he would run CPJ's spread option. He thinks it's one of the most sound and most difficult offenses to plan for.
There should be no doubt that CPJ and Mike Leach are offensive geniuses. I think both of them could have run any offense they wanted and came to the conclusion that they gained a significant advantage by using the offenses they chose. Of course I absolutely love watching a good option running attack more than any other offense so when CPJs offense was humming I was on cloud 9.

On Nate Woody. I’m so glad he found a place to show what he can do and that he’s having success. I felt as badly for him as I did for John Bond. Side note: John Bond is now the OC/QB coach at Northern Iown. Credit goes to the UNI folks for referencing us at Georgia Institute of Technology in his bio!!!

I’m so happy that Army is going to a bowl game!!!
 

bobongo

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The sad but probably accurate truth is that P5 schools will never hire a triple O coach because you can't recruit to that offense. (And before somebody goes off, I love it even as I acknowledge its fatal flaw. The triple option itself remains the most gorgeous offensive play in football, and nothing is second.) QBs with aspirations are never playing for an offense that gets them hammered on almost every play, and lets them throw half a dozen times at most. Running backs, the premium, 5-star blue chippers, aren't coming to an offense that will either put them at fullback to get hammered along with the QB, or at "A" back where they will touch the ball maybe four times a game. It has nothing to do with selfishness, but a desire to have a chance to do what you do.

Then, unless fans are absolutely committed to the run game, attendance begins to fall, and that is tickets, concessions, parking, programs, souvenirs, etc.

Count the number of QBs Johnson had in 10 years who could throw the ball. One. (Justin Thomas, and even he admitted he knew nothing about technique, he just grabbed the ball and threw it.) Count the A backs who were game changers. One. (Orwin Smith, the guy who looked slow but who could get to the edge on the sweep better than anybody.) Fullbacks? Several good ones. Clemson, Georgia, South Carolina and the North Carolina schools liked recruiting against Johnson because of the offense. Not so much Collins, though he is not in Johnson's class as a coach, but runs a more conventional offense, and we can see that in his recruiting results. He won't get those pursued by Clemson or Georgia but otherwise he is in the hunt.

As for Monken, he has done the best coaching job in football for several years, and has never been a contender for coach of the year. It apparently is the offense because there is no excuse otherwise. He took the job promising to beat Army -- and got a rousing, standing ovation when he said it -- and has made a habit of it. Against Navy his defense was outstanding, again, and he threw one time but shut them out. Navy, meantime, has gimmicked up its triple option and suffered for it. Even Army was running a bit of pistol in that game.

I have always thought Georgia Tech, and Johnson, began its decline when Monken went to Georgia Southern. Johnson never seemed to have his mojo after that, and never had the same relationship with another assistant coach. It is a long way to say Monken is an Army guy for life. And why not? He can recruit 200 players if he can get them in school, and Army would make him a general if he wanted except it would be a huge pay cut.
I think Paul's offense was partly responsible for our difficulties in recruiting, but equally contributing to his lack in that area was that Paul just wasn't a very good recruiter, personally. Brilliant coach with a brilliant offense - I wonder what he could have done with Collins here to help him recruit.

Collins is a good recruiter but recruiting alone won't get it done even if he gets us into the top 20 recruiting rankings. Tennessee and FSU are examples of this the last several years. He's going to have to step up his game as a coach.
 

4shotB

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The sad but probably accurate truth is that P5 schools will never hire a triple O coach because you can't recruit to that offense. (And before somebody goes off, I love it even as I acknowledge its fatal flaw. The triple option itself remains the most gorgeous offensive play in football, and nothing is second.)

I agree with most of your post. I also wonder how much our last 2 years here on the Flats will (or has) influenced hiring decisons involving Monken or others going forward? We have debated the magnitude of the transation here and haven't reached consensus so I don't want to stir the pot but will AD's want to peel that onion?

The perception that it is extremely hard on the back end when the TO coach leaves does exist (whether we agree with it or not) and we have done nothing to disprove that in the eyes of the general public. I think most AD's at the types of schools that would consider a TO coach don't have the nerve to fight that additional battle.
 

Coloradojacket

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I agree with most of your post. I also wonder how much our last 2 years here on the Flats will (or has) influenced hiring decisons involving Monken or others going forward? We have debated the magnitude of the transation here and haven't reached consensus so I don't want to stir the pot but will AD's want to peel that onion?

The perception that it is extremely hard on the back end when the TO coach leaves does exist (whether we agree with it or not) and we have done nothing to disprove that in the eyes of the general public. I think most AD's at the types of schools that would consider a TO coach don't have the nerve to fight that additional battle.
Um, you are going off the premise that the current staff that came in knows what they are doing when it comes to game coaching and scheme. They chose to move directly to their offense instead of maybe running some kind of hybrid until they got the players to fit. If Collins had won 6 games last year and maybe 5 this year that perception would not exist. Also the inability to make field goals and extra points had nothing to do with CPJ, another coaching blunder.

If you told Kansas that by hiring CPJ they would win 7 games a year.....they would be ecstatic. And I think he could do it in the Big 12 because their defenses could never stop his offense.
 

4shotB

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Um, you are going off the premise that the current staff that came in knows what they are doing when it comes to game coaching and scheme. They chose to move directly to their offense instead of maybe running some kind of hybrid until they got the players to fit. If Collins had won 6 games last year and maybe 5 this year that perception would not exist. Also the inability to make field goals and extra points had nothing to do with CPJ, another coaching blunder.

If you told Kansas that by hiring CPJ they would win 7 games a year.....they would be ecstatic. And I think he could do it in the Big 12 because their defenses could never stop his offense.

I think you may be missing the bigger picture of my post...we are not debating if Collins could have scratched out another win or two or three these past two seasons. I think that point may have some merit fwiw.The perception exists that we are this bad BECAUSE of the transition and needing payers for our new system. It is mentioned in every single televised game (again, whether we believe it to be true is moot in the grand scheme here).The AD of a school looking to hire a TO coach doesn't have to prove anything to me or you. He has to convince John Q. Public in his home state that the narrative is false. The average Joe in Illinois or Nevada doesn't want details nor even care about our FG kicker. All they see is that we have won 3 games in two consecutive seasons after switching. Just like I know Maryland is bad. I don't know why, nor care. I would hate to hire a guy off of that staff as a head FB coach, even though there are probably some pretty good FB guys on staff there. Most AD's don't want to fight that political battle. Not saying it is right or wrong.
 

Coloradojacket

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I think you may be missing the bigger picture of my post...we are not debating if Collins could have scratched out another win or two or three these past two seasons. I think that point may have some merit fwiw.The perception exists that we are this bad BECAUSE of the transition and needing payers for our new system. It is mentioned in every single televised game (again, whether we believe it to be true is moot in the grand scheme here).The AD of a school looking to hire a TO coach doesn't have to prove anything to me or you. He has to convince John Q. Public in his home state that the narrative is false. The average Joe in Illinois or Nevada doesn't want details nor even care about our FG kicker. All they see is that we have won 3 games in two consecutive seasons after switching. Just like I know Maryland is bad. I don't know why, nor care. I would hate to hire a guy off of that staff as a head FB coach, even though there are probably some pretty good FB guys on staff there. Most AD's don't want to fight that political battle. Not saying it is right or wrong.
I get your point. There are not a lot of fans out there that really understand football and have played and coached it. They just see the game and listen to what some idiot announcer says.
 

jacketup

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What CGC is doing is trying to recruit at a high level and try to win on talent without a system, We shall see if that experiment works. a 44th ranked recruiting class is not exactly where you wan to be. And before I get the comment...well what about the transfers....well subtract all the transfers that we lost.
What kind of system did Friedgen run? His offense was more successful than Johnson's.

What kind of system does, say, Cincinnati run? The have a good offense, and the OC describes it as "multiple".

Johnson had a system alright, and our FBS record was 53-53 over the last 9 years. The .500 system. And the ACC Coastal hasn't exactly been the SEC West.

The best offense isn't a "system." It's an offense that can take advantage of the weakness the defense gives you, and that changes from week to week. To be able to do that, you have to have the players to create the matchups. We don't have them. Yet.

There are too many inherent weaknesses in the Johnson style offense for P5 schools to run it. Holding rules now favor passing teams. No such thing as an effective 2 minute offense. Coming back from deficits is hampered. Recruiting is more difficult.

The option will remain in favor, but it's the RPO, not the TO.

And about the transfers...go to 247 and compare the ratings of the transfers in vs the transfers out. Net upgrade, without a doubt.
 

Skeptic

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I think Paul's offense was partly responsible for our difficulties in recruiting, but equally contributing to his lack in that area was that Paul just wasn't a very good recruiter, personally. Brilliant coach with a brilliant offense - I wonder what he could have done with Collins here to help him recruit.

Collins is a good recruiter but recruiting alone won't get it done even if he gets us into the top 20 recruiting rankings. Tennessee and FSU are examples of this the last several years. He's going to have to step up his game as a coach.
I will acknowledge that Johnson could be, how do you say, difficult, and I'm sure that came across to high school seniors.
 

Skeptic

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ok, so I have to respond.
The offense, known as the spread option has so many variables to it but based on the QBs ability is how you do the play calling. Which of course is with all offenses. Actually Tevin was a decent passer and we threw the ball more. CPJs last two years his QBs were runners although I think Oliver could have developed as a passer.

As far as recruiting, yes you can recruit a lot of good players to play in the system. There are those that will not come play but again, if you develop your players in the system they produce. What CGC is doing is trying to recruit at a high level and try to win on talent without a system, We shall see if that experiment works. a 44th ranked recruiting class is not exactly where you wan to be. And before I get the comment...well what about the transfers....well subtract all the transfers that we lost.

A-back game changers.....I think we had more than Orwin Smith. Roddy Jones, Peeples, Ant Allen when he was at A-back, Robby Godhigh. Many were also great blockers.

And for the comment about defense and possessions,.......that is the idea, keep the ball so the other team doesn't score. The best defense is a good offense.

We will see CPJs spread attack again in P5 maybe with variations but everything comes back around.
You are right about the A backs and I was wrong. But now about Tevin Washington: he was in my opinion the best quarterback Johnson had at Tech in running the option. He was absolutely perfect in decision making, handling the ball, getting it to the right back, and his pitchouts at the end were things of beauty.

But throwing, he couldn't hit the ocean from a rowboat and if he did the ball would not even make a splash. Sorry, but they wobbled and ballooned and floated and the adventure was in whether the ball would actually get as far as a receiver, and many times it didn't. But the running side, great.
 

Silk3

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ok, so I have to respond.
The offense, known as the spread option has so many variables to it but based on the QBs ability is how you do the play calling. Which of course is with all offenses. Actually Tevin was a decent passer and we threw the ball more. CPJs last two years his QBs were runners although I think Oliver could have developed as a passer.

As far as recruiting, yes you can recruit a lot of good players to play in the system. There are those that will not come play but again, if you develop your players in the system they produce. What CGC is doing is trying to recruit at a high level and try to win on talent without a system, We shall see if that experiment works. a 44th ranked recruiting class is not exactly where you wan to be. And before I get the comment...well what about the transfers....well subtract all the transfers that we lost.

A-back game changers.....I think we had more than Orwin Smith. Roddy Jones, Peeples, Ant Allen when he was at A-back, Robby Godhigh. Many were also great blockers.

And for the comment about defense and possessions,.......that is the idea, keep the ball so the other team doesn't score. The best defense is a good offense.

We will see CPJs spread attack again in P5 maybe with variations but everything comes back around.
Peeples wasnt a game changer
 

bobongo

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I get your point. There are not a lot of fans out there that really understand football and have played and coached it. They just see the game and listen to what some idiot announcer says.
You have to take what announcers say with a grain of salt, like the conciliatory sops they always throw at struggling coaches at the end of losing games whether they lose by 3 or 30.
 

gt02

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408
I think you may be missing the bigger picture of my post...we are not debating if Collins could have scratched out another win or two or three these past two seasons. I think that point may have some merit fwiw.The perception exists that we are this bad BECAUSE of the transition and needing payers for our new system. It is mentioned in every single televised game (again, whether we believe it to be true is moot in the grand scheme here).The AD of a school looking to hire a TO coach doesn't have to prove anything to me or you. He has to convince John Q. Public in his home state that the narrative is false. The average Joe in Illinois or Nevada doesn't want details nor even care about our FG kicker. All they see is that we have won 3 games in two consecutive seasons after switching. Just like I know Maryland is bad. I don't know why, nor care. I would hate to hire a guy off of that staff as a head FB coach, even though there are probably some pretty good FB guys on staff there. Most AD's don't want to fight that political battle. Not saying it is right or wrong.
You only keep hearing that because our coach referred to it as the greatest transition in history after literally every game.
 
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