My way too early, possibly problematic look at potential GT Hoops roster management

[Root4GT]

Push back all you want. The numbers are what they are. The fact remains that Pastner's last two seasons saw poor player productivity that translated into poor efficiency on both sides of the court which resulted in losing seasons and regime change.

Stoudamire came in and did a major roster sweep, retaining only Kelly, Terry, Sturdivant and Coleman from the Pastner's last squad. Stoudamire replaced those players with 4 Freshmen recruits (George, Ndongo, Sacko and Souare) and the 5 transfers: Abrams, Gapare, Claude, Duowona and Reeves.

But the results were largely the same. Poor efficiency on both ends, spotty player productivity and a losing record.

George and Ndongo are foundational pieces. Those two are the bright spots this season. Otherwise it was kind of a wasted year as we are faced with, again, big time roster turnover. There was major resistance to buy-in or there were numerous players who were simply not sympatico with Stoudamire's message.

Two players who are kind of swing guys are Gapare and Kelly. Gapare turned enough of a corner to command minutes. He is a player who wants to get out in transition but is limited in the half-court. He doesn't have much in the way of post moves/footwork, gets a lot of shots blocked for a player of his athleticism. He could round out his game or he could just be another role player. His 5.1ppg, 3.7 rpg in 18+ minutes in ACC play isn't enough.

Kelly is going to try to get healthy before NBA work-outs begin. Back injuries can take quite some time to heal, and if there is nerve involvement, then NBA teams are going to be shy. Kelly didn't show a lot of offense on game tape this year so the work-outs are going to be key for him. Short of dazzling work-outs, one would think that Kelly would be outside the NBA fringe. But with the NBA it is hard to predict. Then there is the issue of whether he is a Stoudamire guy or another transfer possibility.

Kowacie Reeves is an interesting player. He was a consistent producer in the pre-season but his production tailed-off markedly when we hit the conference slate. He's an athlete but he doesn't impact commensurate with his physical skills, which was the knock on him at UF.

Was Sacko hurt at the end of the year?

We need production! Both ends. Glimpses and flashes aren't enough to win ACC games.

A foundation needed to be laid for GT BB. GTBB has been lost in the wilderness for 15+ years with no foundation to build upon. I saw a foundation being laid for the first time in a very long time. We have 2 excellent freshmen who positively impact the game and both progressed very well this year playing 2 of the most difficult positions for freshmen to impact. They are the foundation pieces!

Making last year's roster turned over an issue is a Red Herring at best. The only players that possibly could have contributed this season that left were Smith and Moore. Smith didn't play the last several weeks last season and it seemed clear at that point he was done with GT. That is about the normal level of turnover for every college team. Lose two players who were marginal contributors the prior season. No big deal.

Reeves and Gapare contributed at the level Smith and Moore contributed last season. Get used to this as it is the way of college BB now!

The coaching staff seems very solid. CDS has a clear method he wants his players to practice and play. To play winning basketball the way he wants the players to play GTBB needs more good basketball players. Of course that is true for every ACC BB team. UVA may be the only ACC BB team that does not have a significantly better BB roster than GT that clearly was a better team this year.

Recruiting very good players is essential to winning in the ACC. That has been the core problem for GT BB since Hewitt's time as HC. Recruiting in 1 year with CDS is better than any time since Hewitt.

Digging out of the hole GTBB has been in is not easy. Lack of money and fan support hurts. Winning is what will turn those issues around. Next year GTBB has a chance to be in the mid pack of the ACC around .500 in Conference play; hard to see us being better than that. Our talent level has been that bad and is still lower tier ACC. Getting Davis as another capable PG would be a huge get though is appears money is calling him to FSU. Getting at least one more high level player from the Portal would help a lot.

Anyone who expected a quick jump from GTBB being a very bottom tier ACC team to an average ACC team had unrealistic expectations!

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I’m a little puzzled by the negativity on here. Stoudamire is inculcating a culture of toughness with this team. All he needs is three more playmakers to make this team hum. I am confident that between the portal, incoming freshmen, and further development with a couple of players he will have the pieces he needs. Next year will not be an ACC champion level team but it will be 7 wins better than this year and that ain’t bad compared to where we’ve been.

The future looks bright.

 

[orientalnc]

Stoudamire came in and did a major roster sweep, retaining only Kelly, Terry, Sturdivant and Coleman from the Pastner's last squad.

Which players did CDS "sweep" out of the program?

Franklin & Howard were seniors. I betcha CDS would have gladly kept Smith and Moore. So, he swept Meka, Hill and Maxwell (Hampton)? Hill and Meka are not even playing hoops anywhere in the US that I could find. Bagatskis played in 2 games at UT-Arlington. Martynov played 12 mpg at Eastern Michigan and averaged 2.5 ppg and 2.6 rpg. Were they also swept out of the program? If so, I think it was right decision.

I do not remember the timing of the transfer portal decisions by these guys, but IIRC Moore was a late decision and I heard several people suggest he was not comfortable in the classroom at GT. Smith was already gone by the time CDS got here.

 

[dtm1997]

I’m a little puzzled by the negativity on here. Stoudamire is inculcating a culture of toughness with this team. All he needs is three more playmakers to make this team hum. I am confident that between the portal, incoming freshmen, and further development with a couple of players he will have the pieces he needs. Next year will not be an ACC champion level team but it will be 7 wins better than this year and that ain’t bad compared to where we’ve been.

The future looks bright.

Get me 4 wins better and an NIT bid and I'll think we're on track.

 

[bucknellbison31]

But the results were largely the same. Poor efficiency on both ends, spotty player productivity and a losing record.

Saying the results were largely the same is just factually inaccurate. In Stoudamire's first year, he can claim wins over two top-10 teams (UNC and Duke) and multiple other tournament teams (Clemson and Miss St). Pastner had no such wins in his last year; in fact, had it not been for an absurdly easy schedule at the end of the season where we played all of the ACC's bottom feeders right in a row, it would've been a historically bad season for Tech basketball. Stoudamire's team played a tougher schedule and had equally bad lows but far higher highs; therefore, they were more successful.

 

[LargeFO]

Get me 4 wins better and an NIT bid and I'll think we're on track.

Which is definitely doable as many leads as we blew the last few minutes of games.

 

[ESPNjacket]

I’m a little puzzled by the negativity on here. Stoudamire is inculcating a culture of toughness with this team. All he needs is three more playmakers to make this team hum. I am confident that between the portal, incoming freshmen, and further development with a couple of players he will have the pieces he needs. Next year will not be an ACC champion level team but it will be 7 wins better than this year and that ain’t bad compared to where we’ve been.

The future looks bright.

Never underestimate the ability of sports fans to create a narrative and stick to it, no matter the results.

 

[lv20gt]

I do not remember the timing of the transfer portal decisions by these guys, but IIRC Moore was a late decision and I heard several people suggest he was not comfortable in the classroom at GT. Smith was already gone by the time CDS got here.

Moore transferred because he was told he'd be getting 5 minutes some games which is a coaches way of telling him to go elsewhere. Not sure where you got the idea that Smith was gone by the time CDS got here. Smith entered the portal a month after CDS was hired. He was a two time transfer and so would need to have gotten a waiver to be immediately eligible which was initially denied and only changed with a court injunction. He still missed nearly a third of a year because of it.

 

[CuseJacket]

I’ll throw it out there again in defense of those who tilt negative.

“I’m going to turn this thing around in 180 days” is an expectation that was set by the head coach last spring.

Folks can parse apart what that means definitionally, but given the range of interpretations I think it’s reasonable for some to be disappointed given that pointed pronouncement of expectations by the man in charge.

For me, it’s still wait and see. I lean optimistic and long leash almost all of the time, and this case is no different. Looking forward to next year. I like what we are doing in HS recruiting two years in a row now.

 

[slugboy]

Moore transferred because he was told he'd be getting 5 minutes some games which is a coaches way of telling him to go elsewhere. Not sure where you got the idea that Smith was gone by the time CDS got here. Smith entered the portal a month after CDS was hired. He was a two time transfer and so would need to have gotten a waiver to be immediately eligible which was initially denied and only changed with a court injunction. He still missed nearly a third of a year because of it.

Moore got told that his minutes would depend on the matchup. I would say that’s “you aren’t a clear cut everyday starter, but my bench runs deep”, not “get lost”. Many players would take that as a challenge to up their game. I think it’s preferable to be straight with an athlete vs over promising until the portal is closed.
If he wasn’t comfortable being told that his current game depends on the opponent, it’s better that he transfers vs getting disgruntled when he does only get 5 minutes in a game.

 

[Techwood Relict]

Stoudamire is inculcating

Inculcating, inculcating ...... Stupid big words, it's in here somewhere.....

 

[MtnWasp]

A foundation needed to be laid for GT BB. GTBB has been lost in the wilderness for 15+ years with no foundation to build upon. I saw a foundation being laid for the first time in a very long time. We have 2 excellent freshmen who positively impact the game and both progressed very well this year playing 2 of the most difficult positions for freshmen to impact. They are the foundation pieces!

Making last year's roster turned over an issue is a Red Herring at best. The only players that possibly could have contributed this season that left were Smith and Moore. Smith didn't play the last several weeks last season and it seemed clear at that point he was done with GT. That is about the normal level of turnover for every college team. Lose two players who were marginal contributors the prior season. No big deal.

Reeves and Gapare contributed at the level Smith and Moore contributed last season. Get used to this as it is the way of college BB now!

The coaching staff seems very solid. CDS has a clear method he wants his players to practice and play. To play winning basketball the way he wants the players to play GTBB needs more good basketball players. Of course that is true for every ACC BB team. UVA may be the only ACC BB team that does not have a significantly better BB roster than GT that clearly was a better team this year.

Recruiting very good players is essential to winning in the ACC. That has been the core problem for GT BB since Hewitt's time as HC. Recruiting in 1 year with CDS is better than any time since Hewitt.

Digging out of the hole GTBB has been in is not easy. Lack of money and fan support hurts. Winning is what will turn those issues around. Next year GTBB has a chance to be in the mid pack of the ACC around .500 in Conference play; hard to see us being better than that. Our talent level has been that bad and is still lower tier ACC. Getting Davis as another capable PG would be a huge get though is appears money is calling him to FSU. Getting at least one more high level player from the Portal would help a lot.

Anyone who expected a quick jump from GTBB being a very bottom tier ACC team to an average ACC team had unrealistic expectations!

This is a good post and I agree with almost all of it.

If this season did lay the foundation that transitions to next season, then all is good. If we see the roster turnover that is being speculated and we have to lay another foundation, then that is less great.

I am not big on forecasting. We don't know what the roster will look like anyway.

What I don't agree with is trying to polish this last season in shiny terms. The coach definitely had trouble getting buy-in and the team had a real tendency to fail to play with much competitive fire, at least on a consistent basis. If the team was able to beat Duke, Carolina, MissSt, @Clemson, etc. then it begs the question where do the "unrealistic" expectations begin and where do they end? If those signature wins offer evidence for the foundation being laid, then what about the tough losses in twice their measure?

If it speaks to good coaching for the team to rise up and play basketball at an extremely high level, then there has to be some speaking to the team also playing weakly more than twice as often. There was some real good things to the season, but a lot of really not good things also. It was a Bi-Polar year. How can one make sense of it? But there was more down than up.

We can and will debate it over the next months, but the proof will be in the pudding regardless. I eagerly await to see what happens with the roster.

 

[Techwood Relict]

This is a good post and I agree with almost all of it.

If this season did lay the foundation that transitions to next season, then all is good. If we see the roster turnover that is being speculated and we have to lay another foundation, then that is less great.

I am not big on forecasting. We don't know what the roster will look like anyway.

What I don't agree with is trying to polish this last season in shiny terms. The coach definitely had trouble getting buy-in and the team had a real tendency to fail to play with much competitive fire, at least on a consistent basis. If the team was able to beat Duke, Carolina, MissSt, @Clemson, etc. then it begs the question where do the "unrealistic" expectations begin and where do they end? If those signature wins offer evidence for the foundation being laid, then what about the tough losses in twice their measure?

If it speaks to good coaching for the team to rise up and play basketball at an extremely high level, then there has to be some speaking to the team also playing weakly more than twice as often. There was some real good things to the season, but a lot of really not good things also. It was a Bi-Polar year. How can one make sense of it? But there was more down than up.

We can and will debate it over the next months, but the proof will be in the pudding regardless. I eagerly await to see what happens with the roster.

I sense that Mtn is done fishing for explanations of how this season went....

 

[Root4GT]

This is a good post and I agree with almost all of it.

If this season did lay the foundation that transitions to next season, then all is good. If we see the roster turnover that is being speculated and we have to lay another foundation, then that is less great.

I am not big on forecasting. We don't know what the roster will look like anyway.

What I don't agree with is trying to polish this last season in shiny terms. The coach definitely had trouble getting buy-in and the team had a real tendency to fail to play with much competitive fire, at least on a consistent basis. If the team was able to beat Duke, Carolina, MissSt, @Clemson, etc. then it begs the question where do the "unrealistic" expectations begin and where do they end? If those signature wins offer evidence for the foundation being laid, then what about the tough losses in twice their measure?

If it speaks to good coaching for the team to rise up and play basketball at an extremely high level, then there has to be some speaking to the team also playing weakly more than twice as often. There was some real good things to the season, but a lot of really not good things also. It was a Bi-Polar year. How can one make sense of it? But there was more down than up.

We can and will debate it over the next months, but the proof will be in the pudding regardless. I eagerly await to see what happens with the roster.

Very reasonable take. What I liked the most was seeing George grow as a point guard and team leader. His play the last month has been excellent. He has been a good decision maker all season. His offense has improved a whole lot. He has developed a nice floater and he has become a solid 3 point shooter. He and Ndongo have an excellent screen and roll game for 2 freshmen.

Ndongo has been very good all year. The AJC article sai Ndongo was fasting for Ramadan yesterday, no foot or water since sunrise. Hard to imagine playing an ACC tournament game (35 minutes) at his energy level without a sip of water. Heck that seems dangerous to me.

Roster turnover won't be a real issue as long as George, Ndongo, Gapare and Reeves stay. It would be nice to have Kelly back as well as he is a good basketball player. Coleman would be a nice returning player as well.

If Sutton actually signs with us, only "committed" so far. Mustaf looks to be a very good add. We really need another PG. The current roster does not have any going into next year. That is an issue.

As you said this is the interesting time. We don't know how many guys will want to return and play for CDS.

I think most of us are more optimistic than you at this point. I was very down on Pastner after the ACCT Championship team. So this season was a breath of fresh air watching GT BB for me!

 

[MtnWasp]

Wins against Duke, Carolina, road wins against Clemson and Wake were breaths of fresh air. Getting blown out by Wake at home, looking lethargic and losing to BC, Louisville, three times to ND were the same Ol' kick in the nads that Pastner's last two teams were giving us.

I'm not pessimistic. But at the conclusion of season 1, I see the program's prospects on the fence. Could go either way. There is evidence both ways. Let's keep that recruiting momentum rolling. That's the ticket. VERY excited about Darrion Sutton. That player should help us right out of the gate.

 

[orientalnc]

So much of what happened this year was related to our poor shooting. So, just looking at our end of season games, when we seemed to have hit a nice stride on both ends of the floor, here are our and our opponents 3-point shooting percentages for that game.

Syracuse 16% GT 28%
Clemson 48% GT 28%
Miami 36% GT 44%
FSU 33% GT 31%
Wake 25% GT 47%
UVA 46% GT 19%
ND 52% GT 30%

I know the dense against 3-point shooting can be a genuine factor and UVA never let us get comfortable at any range. But the only game where the difference in 3-point shooting was not a factor was the FSU game. And we out rebounded them 55-33. Shooting has been the issue all season. When we were hitting shots we won.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

So much of what happened this year was related to our poor shooting. So, just looking at our end of season games, when we seemed to have hit a nice stride on both ends of the floor, here are our and our opponents 3-point shooting percentages for that game.

Syracuse 16% GT 28%
Clemson 48% GT 28%
Miami 36% GT 44%
FSU 33% GT 31%
Wake 25% GT 47%
UVA 46% GT 19%
ND 52% GT 30%

I know the dense against 3-point shooting can be a genuine factor and UVA never let us get comfortable at any range. But the only game where the difference in 3-point shooting was not a factor was the FSU game. And we out rebounded them 55-33. Shooting has been the issue all season. When we were hitting shots we won.

Which is why @Root4GT is right about our need for another high performing guard. Our long scoring droughts hurt us in several games and I kept wishing for one of those “put the team on their back” kind of players who could get us baskets in those times.

I think we are potentially looking at five players, between those coming into the program and a couple already here who are developing, from which we can get one more good shooter and two more playmakers.

Much more I could say but, yes, better scoring percentages are needed.

 

[alagold]

Can’t disagree with your assessment. And don’t forget that 15-18 record in year 7 of CJP included wins over Clayton State & Florida Tech. That’s 13 Division 1 wins and 6 regular season conference wins, both of which were surpassed in year 1 of CDS without any contribution from Terry. Not that surpassing that low bar by 1 is a big plus, but it is at least an improvement. And Terry had nothing to do with it. With George, Mustaph, Reeves & possibly Daquan Davis & MK, where does Terry expect to get minutes? He could have found minutes for almost half a season here, but chose to redshirt. Why? To fight for minutes next year from the bench or move on some place where he can start. I said before I think he is gone. Still think so.
CDS is also talking to a former teammate about bring his son to Atlanta, kind of like when CBC talked to Rick Barry about sending his kids. I’d guess first order of business in the portal is a true C that can protect the rim, post up or down and protect Ndongo from foul trouble, while allowing BN more offensive freedom.
Darrion Sutton is said to be 6’9” now by OTE announcers. And he has guard-like ball handling skills. In a position-less offense he can play anywhere at either end of the court. CDS is not adverse to starting freshmen and GT is getting 2, maybe 3 very good ones from them. Not looking good for Terry to get playing time in Atlanta next year.

I'm thinking Kelly is gone.If he is Terry is a lot closer than anyone else to fit in that 3 pt and toughness role at this point..

 

[Lightbulb]

Bacot supposedly getting 500k $ NIL at UNC. May not be NBA draft pick. Not a great outside shot and more power forward size.

He's getting double that

 

[dtm1997]

Wins against Duke, Carolina, road wins against Clemson and Wake were breaths of fresh air. Getting blown out by Wake at home, looking lethargic and losing to BC, Louisville, three times to ND were the same Ol' kick in the nads that Pastner's last two teams were giving us.

I'm not pessimistic. But at the conclusion of season 1, I see the program's prospects on the fence. Could go either way. There is evidence both ways. Let's keep that recruiting momentum rolling. That's the ticket. VERY excited about Darrion Sutton. That player should help us right out of the gate.

I'd advise against placing any expectations on Darrion Sutton.

Very high potential that I think will be tapped into, but needs A LOT of development.