Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[Techster]

Geoff and Co. talked **** first. They **** all over guys like TM in the previous regime. I say TM can talk his **** back.

There's more going on with that than has been said in public. You know that saying that goes "If he's doing that in front of us, imagine what goes on when no one is around."? If GT fans thought all of the "biggest rebuild in history" and "we had to bring in guys to fit todays game" talk was a bit much, there's a LOT worse things being said when cameras and mikes aren't around that got back to former players and coaches. It turned off some big money guys that were grateful for what CPJ did, but the big money guys that wanted to move on from CPJ lapped it up.

The problem is if you're going to trash ex coaches and players in public, and in private, you better improve on what they did. CGC and this staff are falling on their faces with the "rebuild" and the chickens are coming home to roost.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I don’t see any way out of this mess without a clean overhaul.

 

[GT_B]

My two cents, even though Im sure most of this has been said somewhere in this thread:

- Collins decided to space himself as far as he could from the Triple option for recruiting purposes. He was trying to get the stigma of 3O and GT football as far away as he could. Truth is that the 3O of course, as most of us know, is easy to negatively recruit against since the pros don’t run it and every player coming out of HS dreams of playing in the NFL. So everyone wants to play in the cookie cutter offenses we see in todays college/pro game.
- I don’t blame Collins for trying to distance himself from the past decade, but I don’t think his approach was the best in some of the ways he described it. It would come off at times like an insult to the previous staff and players which is why it rubbed some people the wrong way and you are now seeing fans/ex players/coaches respond to that when Collins has fallen on his face.
-despite how it came off at times, I don’t think Collins doesn’t respect Paul, and I’m sure he thinks he is a great coach, but Collins had a hard time finding a way to pave his own path while paying respect to the last staff. I think the better way he could have said things was, “Paul and his staff did incredible things here and had great success, but I have a different vision and plan for what I want to do and where the program is going and hope to have similar success as Paul and hopefully get GT football into the playoff picture etc”
-since things have gone south for 3 years, Collins has to eat all of the mess he has created for himself. He is ultra positive and ultra hype, and when there’s not a lot of positives and no hype left, not sure what he has left to do with himself.
-He needs to basically reinvent himself and how he views things. Be realistic when talking to the media, accept you need to hire people that make you better, not your buddies who kiss your butt everyday. Realize it’s ok to say “we didn’t play well, guys didn’t give the best effort, if guys are not giving 100% or can’t execute what they are coached, then I will play guys who will, etc” you don’t need to profess your love for everyone 24/7, if you really love the guys as much as you say, you don’t need to constantly say it, the players will already know that. When you say it constantly it comes off like an insecure guy who thinks his wife is always thinking about leaving him and has to reassure himself constantly or something.
-lastly, I think he has to win at least 7-8 games next year, I don’t think even 6 is going to cut it at this point, the fan base is way too far gone. He is going to have to have a monumental bounce back season to get people to respect him again.

 

[bke1984]

Here's the scoop:

Meetings tomorrow. TStan and the money. TStan and Collins. Collins and the team.

Thacker, Burton and more (Patenude) are gone. Key might resign.

TStan is hitched to Collins. If Collins is canned next year, TSTAN goes with him.

The internal thinking is to upgrade the assistants and hold onto the recruiting class.

Any chance Geoff doesn’t accept this and forces Todd’s hand to fire him now?

Key resigning could kill the class too…

 

[orientalnc]

Here's the scoop:

Meetings tomorrow. TStan and the money. TStan and Collins. Collins and the team.

Thacker, Burton and more (Patenude) are gone. Key might resign.

TStan is hitched to Collins. If Collins is canned next year, TSTAN goes with him.

The internal thinking is to upgrade the assistants and hold onto the recruiting class.

You lit up the board with this post.

Is the "scoop" something you learned from a source who is very likely to know? Or is it something you think is probably going to happen? It is very difficult to imagine anyone staking their career on someone else's success as a football coach. Especially following three seasons like we just witnessed.

 

[Vespidae]

You lit up the board with this post.

Is the "scoop" something you learned from a source who is very likely to know? Or is it something you think is probably going to happen? It is very difficult to imagine anyone staking their career on someone else's success as a football coach. Especially following three seasons like we just witnessed.

Gotcha. This is a very reliable source. Deep Throat.

 

[SWATlien]

Do you personally think that saving CGC is enough to keep our class intact? I hope so, but my spidey senses are afraid we will lose talent in portal & in 22 class.

I wouldn’t worry about this.

 

[wvGT11]

I know it's not likely. But I really hope Tstan and Collins understand how upset the fan base is right now, and hope that comes into any decisions today. Yes we need to ensure our recruits and current class stay in tact, but Collins really should look at how much he's tanked that fan base (one he used to be part of )

 

[4shotB]

-He needs to basically reinvent himself and how he views things.

I have been thinking about this comment. Basically, I have never seen this work in my professional life while the person was in their current job. (I have seen a few who, after moving on, reflected on and fixed their mistakes and had success at other places. Not many, but a few.) I am very curious as to what you and others have seen about this "reinventing" strategy in your professional lives.

 

[slugboy]

We should definitely know more in 24 hours. If Collins is meeting with coaches today, we should at least hear about that, even if no announcements come today.

I used a startup analogy for Collins earlier in the thread (it grew by nearly 20 pages yesterday). I think it’s a better analogy now than I did before. Amazon went years before making a profit, but they kept saying “look at market share—that’s our metric”. They caught a lot of heat for it, and people saying that Amazon stock would never be worth its multiple.

With Collins, I hear “stick with the plan”, but I don’t know what the metric is. If it’s recruiting ranking, he’s not in Amazon position. Big donors are our angel investors—a good CEO should be able to say “if we’re on track, that number will at least be XYZ”. You have to pick the number in advance, and I don’t know what his metric is.

 

[buzz_wiser©]

I was told from a very reliable source that after the Notre Lame Game that Collins was to remain as head coach in name only...
He is to do no more coaching, only marketing and recruiting.

It seems that Collins was counter coaching from the sidelines for the defense and getting them confused.. when thacker would send in a play, he would tell the defense differently.

hence why out 2ndary was never where it needed to be.

Coaches will be terminated in the next few days, if not today.

 

[Vespidae]

Any chance Geoff doesn’t accept this and forces Todd’s hand to fire him now?

Key resigning could kill the class too…

What I understand is that it's up to Todd. He could backpedal but it appears he is all in with Geoff.

 

[Yoda]

I was told from a very reliable source that after the Notre Lame Game that Collins was to remain as head coach in name only...
He is to do no more coaching, only marketing and recruiting.

It seems that Collins was counter coaching from the sidelines for the defense and getting them confused.. when thacker would send in a play, he would tell the defense differently.

hence why out 2ndary was never where it needed to be.

Coaches will be terminated in the next few days, if not today.

BK, lol

 

[Gomez Adams]

I am very curious as to what you and others have seen about this "reinventing" strategy in your professional lives.

I've seen people actually try in real time. It typically works for a short while but it never lasts. Inevitably, a person can't change who he or she really is deep down. It's only a matter of time before that person shows up again, and it's typically not a great deal of time.

Quitting smoking? Sure. That can be done to "reinvent" yourself.
Quitting drinking? Absolutely; and that can lead to you being a much better person but not a different one.
Quitting being a jerk that thinks he knows it all?

Nope. That guy might be able to bite his tongue for a while, but it never, ever lasts.

 

[33jacket]

Then Tstan might ride the ship down when he should admit a mistake and move on.

when ego gets in the way of doing whats best, this is what happens. Almost all bureaucrats are egocentric

 

[orientalnc]

I have been thinking about this comment. Basically, I have never seen this work in my professional life while the person was in their current job. (I have seen a few who, after moving on, reflected on and fixed their mistakes and had success at other places. Not many, but a few.) I am very curious as to what you and others have seen about this "reinventing" strategy in your professional lives.

I think changes have to come from inside a person. No one can force a drug addict or alcoholic to quit. They have to decide for themselves. Unless Collins believes his approach is not the right way, he is not going to sustain external changes imposed temporarily.

 

[wvGT11]

I was told from a very reliable source that after the Notre Lame Game that Collins was to remain as head coach in name only...
He is to do no more coaching, only marketing and recruiting.

It seems that Collins was counter coaching from the sidelines for the defense and getting them confused.. when thacker would send in a play, he would tell the defense differently.

hence why out 2ndary was never where it needed to be.

Coaches will be terminated in the next few days, if not today.

If this were true, then this would be even more reason to can Collins . No HC should cause this much confusion and not fix it .

 

[orientalnc]

$13 million is a lot of money. If high income donors are willing to put up this amount (with conditions) to can Collins, and we keep him, I wonder if they withhold those funds from future requests?

 

[33jacket]

name a high quality assistant that would come to GT to work for Collins when everyone on the planet knows next year is a lame duck year for both the HC And AD

I can't think of one. This reminds me of John Bond's year under Gailey....

 

[orientalnc]

name a high quality assistant that would come to GT to work for Collins when everyone on the planet knows next year is a lame duck year for both the HC And AD

I can't think of one. This reminds me of John Bond's year under Gailey....

From where we sit, how do you measure assistant coaches at other schools? An assistant may be outstanding but his teams aren't successful for reasons unrelated to his coaching. And the inverse is also true.