Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[awbuzz]

People stop going to games and they start hemorrhaging money, you bet they will fire him. Fans can force the issue.

... Well at least have a decision to kick a field goal changed...

 

[Jmonty71]

I have been a big defender of CGC and have advocated for patience regarding win totals. Last night was rough, but it's too soon to get the pitchforks just yet.

That being said, I lay the blame for last nights game solely at CGCs feet. We showed continuing signs of being a poorly cached team. Clear confusion on the D and our inability to substitute player in a timely manner is all coaching. At one point, Swilling and the nickel were arguing over a coverage and the ball was snapped. Only the receiver, who Swilling was supposed to be covering, having a foot out of bounds when he caught the ball prevented another NIU TD. These are all defensive failures, and our defense is not undergoing the most historical transformation ever....

But the absolute worst thing I saw, and to me, fair or not, main failure which led to losing the game was when he abdicated his decision making power to the crowd. We had a chip shot FG in our pocket, and he sent us out to get it, then let the crowds booing change his mind. Those 3 points would have been the game. It is absolutely inexcusable for a P5 head coach to let a crowd determine his coaching strategy. A lot of people have defended him these last couple of years, and I have been one of them. I can in no way defend this.

That being said. It's only game 1. If we are 6-6 at the end of the season we can maybe laugh this off as growing pains. I'm somehow doubting we win more than 2 games this season. 3 at this point seems a minor miracle...

CGC is nothing but a 3 to 4 win a year coach....this year, next year....doesn't matter. He can't coach.... He talks a big game....but definitely cannot back it up. He uses gimmicks and catch phrases more than a used car sales man. I think he is way over his head. Sorry....GT fans shouldn't be paying for his education on how to coach. When he talks, all I hear is BS coming out of his mouth.

 

[Treb1982]

I could have made us look like **** for $300k a year… think about it!

 

[Fatmike91]

Mike Norvell has FSU looking night and day better in year 1.

They did what was necessary.

/

 

[CuseJacket]

I don't agree with it, because everybody has access to the transfer portal, and thus over time, those guys are baked into the rankings. I'm sure if you dug around, half the teams in the country have a "yeah but" Factor they can make an argument if they wanted to.

I'm fine with point one (although if we are being fair, the two most effective offensive players last night were not Collins recruits).

We shall see where the 2022 class ends up, but even if he doesn't drop any spots and ends up around 30, my point is that that isn't anything special.

That's middle of the road for the p5.

Interestingly enough, each of our programs made the Orange bowl primarily via X's and O's rather than recruiting. Bronco can't recruit at all, but he's a very good Xs guy, and he's not afraid to just absolutely run his quarterback into the ground in the hope that he somehow stays healthy throughout the year and we read the advantages.

The real thing, though, is that if you are going to run the same thing as everybody else, and have comparable talent to everybody else, you have to be a special teacher.

Actually, let's reframe the discussion: do you believe that Collins is the best recruiter that Georgia tech is likely to get? That is, do you believe he represents just about the ceiling of recruiting that your school is likely to achieve?

Re: the 2021 class, one or two posters here did an analysis to show that we took materially more transfers than those above and around us in recruiting in 2021. I don't have the time to dig it up, but the takeaway is the difference for us was material that year. Hard for me to quantify from the memory bank though.

I'm not sure if Collins is the best recruiter we can get, and so I'm not sure what our ceiling is. I don't expect us to blast into the top 15 as a regular or even frequent visitor, if at all. Context matters too i.e., it would certainly be easier to sell a winning program that he is directing.

Let's say top 30 is near the ceiling. Where are you going with that? Regardless of scheme, to me that translates to top 5 ACC most years or thereabouts, and enough to minimally win the Coastal 1 out of every 5-6 years like the prior two regimes (not accounting for our 6-6 year where two teams ahead of us were disqualified and was basically our average GT season result). We'll still have highs and lows off that.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

CGC is nothing but a 3 to 4 win a year coach....this year, next year....doesn't matter. He can't coach.... He talks a big game....but definitely cannot back it up. He uses gimmicks and catch phrases more than a used car sales man. I think he is way over his head. Sorry....GT fans shouldn't be paying for his education on how to coach. When he talks, all I hear is BS coming out of his mouth.

Butch Jones 2.0

 

[CuseJacket]

Maybe we are so hamstrung by resources, including recruiting side, that in order for CGC to perform to his strength (recruiting), he has to dedicate much more time to it to make up for said lack of resources compared to other teams currently successful at recruiting. This in turn takes away from other areas of his responsibility on the actual coaching side. Probably the opposite was true for CPJ, choosing to focus his available time on coaching/scheming at the expense of great recruiting.
It reminds me of when I first started at Tech. A good family friend who had just gotten out sat me down and told me "good grades, social life, or sleep, pick two". The next level teams really get to pick all three of the football equivalent of this.
What's becoming more apparent is that if we want to continue down this path of elite or above average recruiting, we are going to need additional resources in order to be able to match the coaching to it as well.
I'm my opinion, the path to wins and program success would be easier if we increase resources and get a Monken/Bohannon since we will not be competing for the same players everyone else is necessarily (keyword). But again without additional resources, the ceiling will be similar to CPJ years anyways (which many, including myself, would love right about now).

I feel bad for CGC I'm a way. I think he really wants to succeed, but I honestly believe he bit off more than he can chew. Like politician who all over promise to get elected and then unable to make good on said promises, even though they had good intentions. It still pisses people off.

In summary, can Tech recruit at a higher level then we've seen over the past decade, maybe. But it comes at the expense of time to dedicate to actual coaching.

I too have wondered about this and to what degree it is true.

Devil's advocate: Let's say CGC takes it to the extreme as the theory suggests. Still fair to expect that he or any HC in his shoes can figure out how to use timeouts? Or what to do after gaining three yards on 1st and goal from the 5? Correct those things alone and we avoid two embarrassing losses and add two Ws to the win column.

 

[Backstreetbuzz]

It looks like Dave Braine may have been overly optimistic. Maybe GT is a 3-9 team that will bubble up to 6-6 every once in a while.

 

[Jmonty71]

My 2 cents after the almost 24 hour rule. I realize many will laugh me off as I'm a vocal supporter of what Collins is selling.

Collins oversees the program and is ultimately responsible for what happens on and off the field. He's not going anywhere for at least 15 months, IMO, because of the contract. It would be better to fix the issues around him and for whatever issues we have on the field, that dude has gotten our foot in the door (and ink on the papers) of a lot of talent that wouldn't even consider us before he was hired.

We need a better OC and QB coach. Patenaude needs to go and we don't need another rah rah recruiter on staff. We need an offensive expert to take over that side of the ball.

Collins does need game management advice. That should be Key as the assistant head coach whatever that title means. They seem to be big on analytics so put an analytics guy in the press box and on the head sets. Know when to take calculated risks and know when to settle for the FG and crap like that.

I don't care about ATL charts or depth charts or any of that but if we're going to play 30 guys on defense then figure out a better substitution pattern.

CPJ and the triple option isn't walking back through that door. Move on. That's not about CPJ vs CGC like every thread seems to want to do. It's just a fact CGC could resign tonight and we aren't hiring and going back to the triple option.

Just remember recruits and their family read these forums. Consider that when lashing out. We all love GT at the end of the day.

As a head coach, you shouldn't have to learn game management on the fly. He uses empty gimmicks and lame marketing tricks, to sell a bad product. Sorry...but, everything about your argument is valid. Exception being CPJ.... I agree, he and his system isn't coming back. But, the system we have now is better??? Just asking... CGC has zero skill in adjusting to what the other team is doing. To be fair, our OC and DC are in the same boat. Frankly, getting embarrassed on national TV and while recruits was visiting, hurts the team more than this blog does. I wished I could get paid millions to perform extremely poorly...and have people make excuses for me....

 

[Ibeeballin]

Roof was a good DC, much better then what we have now.
Let me know when Thacker beats UGA twice and plays for an ACC title and wins an orange bowl. Ted’s Defense was perfect when Johnson’s offense was clicking. When the QB play subsided post Justin Thomas is when Teds Defense was exposed. The Tennessee game was the one time you could solely place a loss on Ted just getting out coached, but at the same time, without a fumble and missed FG in 4th QTR tech wins the game.

Don’t talk football ever again lol

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

For all the talk of football decisions, the other issue I noticed at the game last night was that CGC seems to be losing the fans as well. There weren't a lot of butts in seats at all. Attendance was announced as 33,651, or roughly 60% of capacity. (Likely to be less than 30k next week.) Aside from the COVID reduced 2020 totals, this is one of the lowest attended games in decades. Even the fans there stopped getting loud on the "money" downs early on, and I heard several around me start openly mocking the money down mantra. Fans can get fickle real quick, and while I understand the need to give him time, I don't think the fanbase is gonna stick around for much more of this. Next weeks game vs. KSU is absolutely critical. A loss there may be more than the fanbase will take, and while we should be heavily favored, we saw what that meant last Saturday.

 

[Fatmike91]

Or what to do after gaining three yards on 1st and goal from the 5?

Everyone in the stadium knew what to do except our coaching staff.

/

 

[Jmonty71]

For all the talk of football decisions, the other issue I noticed at the game last night was that CGC seems to be losing the fans as well. There weren't a lot of butts in seats at all. Attendance was announced as 33,651, or roughly 60% of capacity. (Likely to be less than 30k next week.) Aside from the COVID reduced 2020 totals, this is one of the lowest attended games in decades. Even the fans there stopped getting loud on the "money" downs early on, and I heard several around me start openly mocking the money down mantra. Fans can get fickle real quick, and while I understand the need to give him time, I don't think the fanbase is gonna stick around for much more of this. Next weeks game vs. KSU is absolutely critical. A loss there may be more than the fanbase will take, and while we should be heavily favored, we saw what that meant last Saturday.

I agree... If we lose to KSU, the AD should just fire Collins, then and there.... Otherwise, I foresee home games having more fans, from the other team, the rest of the year.. There is absolutely no reason why we look so bad...

 

[jacket_fan]

After reading all 40 pages of this thread, one common theme stands out to me, and one positive.

No one in this thread has shown an area of improvement over last year. Or maybe I missed it.

The positive. And an area of improvement. No illegal procedure penalties. The staff worked hard in the off season on this and the tough love paid off.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Mike Norvell has FSU looking night and day better in year 1.

They did what was necessary.

/

lol

What game are you watching?

 

[wrmathis]

After reading all 40 pages of this thread, one common theme stands out to me, and one positive.

No one in this thread has shown an area of improvement over last year. Or maybe I missed it.

The positive. And an area of improvement. No illegal procedure penalties. The staff worked hard in the off season on this and the tough love paid off.

3 for 3 on touchbacks

 

[MacJacket]

As a head coach, you shouldn't have to learn game management on the fly. He uses empty gimmicks and lame marketing tricks, to sell a bad product. Sorry...but, everything about your argument is valid. Exception being CPJ.... I agree, he and his system isn't coming back. But, the system we have now is better??? Just asking... CGC has zero skill in adjusting to what the other team is doing. To be fair, our OC and DC are in the same boat. Frankly, getting embarrassed on national TV and while recruits was visiting, hurts the team more than this blog does. I wished I could get paid millions to perform extremely poorly...and have people make excuses for me....

I agree with you. When we hear buzzwords like “chaos” and “mayhem” I think it’s fair to expect those things like we saw in the Tenuta years. Man, our teams got after QBs back then. Outside of the RBs, there is nothing fun about watching this team. Mental weaknesses + unpreparedness is the recipe we’re watching right now. I really hope things change but I can see it happening . 30+ years as a fan and close to not watching any more.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

After reading all 40 pages of this thread, one common theme stands out to me, and one positive.

No one in this thread has shown an area of improvement over last year. Or maybe I missed it.

The positive. And an area of improvement. No illegal procedure penalties. The staff worked hard in the off season on this and the tough love paid off.

I'll throw out a sure to be controversial positive from the game: I am much more comfortable with CDP in the OC position after this game. Sure, we can nitpick a few goal line calls, but overall, the schemes he called out either gained yardage, or missed because the QB couldn't get the throw to the receiver. We had wide open looks for TDs all night long. Hard to fault the OC for bad execution. Iron out the QB play and I think we could be really competitive with CDP.

And Kick-offs through the end zone. Definite improvement.

 

[RonJohn]

....(Likely to be less than 30k next week.)....

I think a lot of KSU people probably bought tickets to this game. I don't think overall attendance will be an issue. GT fan attendance might be an issue.

 

[jacket_fan]

3 for 3 on touchbacks

Sorry, missed it.