Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[GTjunkie]

So, now that the fan base has lost all confidence in CGC, do we go back to giving Gif Smith credit for the 2007 class like we used to, or is CGC still the master recruiter who pulled the levers behind the scenes? Asking for a friend...

Giff Smith was the Recruiting Coordinator.

 

[Towaliga]

Time to close this CGC ain't going anywhere this year open it back up next year if we need it

I agree, Stech. I have been doing my fair share of complaining, especially after the past two games. However, the decision has been made to retain most of the current staff, so it's time for me to shut up. Come next fall, I'll be sitting in my seats cheering and hoping CGC has righted the ship and made us all look like idiots for wanting to get rid of him.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

When something like this happens to other teams it is always said that they do less with more, or that they are wasting talent, etc etc.

You're looking at the overall picture which isn't just recruiting but also development, preparation, scheme, etc etc. All those things are important and failure in any of them can lead to overall bad outcomes, but it doesn't mean every single aspect was bad.

For instance, nobody is going to look back at our 2017 basketball class and claim it was a great recruiting job. We took two three stars with decent offer sheets and two reaches. However it produced for us an ACC PoY and ACC DpoY which is probably better than the vast majority of classes we've had. But that doesn't change the recruiting aspect of that class, it just speaks to the development of it. The opposite can be said, to a large extent, about our 2009 class. It largely underperformed given the overall standing, but nobody is going to chalk it up to a weakness in recruiting.

Collins is a better recruiter than we've had at HC in a long time and has at least shown that we don't need to buy into the "we'll never compete recruiting so why even try" arguments that we saw at times. His failures in other areas don't change that though.

I get all this, believe me, I do. But star rankings have one purpose and one only, to predict performance at the next level. Was Shaq Mason really a 2 star athlete? Some would say that CPJ did a better job recognizing potential than the recruiting services.

I absolutely do not want to rehash all the old arguments about how accurate the recruiting services are because that is not my point. My point is simple. If the results on the field do not reflect the projected performance when recruits were being ranked then it may mean the rankings were off and the recruiting was not as good as advertised.

One more illustration. CPJ got lots of 3 star players but an argument has been made that CGC’s 3 star were recruits were “high” 3 star versus average or low 3 star for CPJ. But if the CPJ 3 star actually performs better on the field or grades higher in performance, then the predictive nature of the recruiting services is somewhat compromised and the blanket statement that CGC is a good recruiter has to be taken with a grain of salt.

CGC may yet prove to be a good recruiter, and I sincerely hope that is the case, but right now we are simply giving him the benefit of the doubt because the recruiting services say so.

 

[bobongo]

I think there’s one angle that I haven’t seen talked about yet. I feel like right now would be the worst time to fire Collins. Before anybody throws stats at me, just please follow me here. This off-season, how many of the big boy schools are looking for a head football coach? I’m going to say it’s more than an average off season. And with the state of our program, how would we sell ourselves versus all the others? I feel as though next off season would be the good time to pick up somebody, because we might be in a better spot to land somebody better.

It's that way every year. We aren't competing with the "big boy schools", anyway. We just needed to find a good, young, up-and-coming coach who knows what he's doing. But I guess we'll wait one more season.

 

[bke1984]

My point was that everyone seems to agree that Collins isn’t a good HC, yet he beat and has a winning or .500 record against other coaches who people agree are good HCs. All I’m saying is how good can they be if Collins is beating them. Folks say Cutcliffe can coach circles around CGC, yet Cutcliffe is the only coach and team Collins has beaten twice.

My point is that I think we were in a much worse situation in 2019 than some are willing to admit, and Collins probably did as good as anyone would have given the circumstances (El Cid loss notwithstanding, but Norvell did lose to an FCS team in year 2 sooooo), but it can also be true that Collins hasn’t done a good enough job in bettering the program from where he inherited it. Being in a poor position in 2019 given the circumstances, and being in a poor position in 2021/22 don’t have to be mutually exclusive. I think Collins did his job and was “good enough” in 2019 and 2020, but what happened in 2021 certainly wasn’t good enough. I’m willing to see what happens in 2022 because I think there is still potential for a pretty major turnaround with him at the helm but we’ll have to wait and see. Gibbs leaving certainly isn’t a good omen, but if he can keep the other key players (Charlie Thomas, Quez, Sims, Blackburn, Griffin, etc.) and hold on to the recruiting class, there will still be reason to be exciting and have somewhat high expectations going into next season. Especially if we can lure an exciting OC and DC in. Time will tell, but I’m ready to put these miserable last 3 years behind and look towards the future

I stopped reading after the first sentence. They’re better because they are winning other games many other ones in fact. This is a ridiculous conclusion.

 

[YoungSting]

It's that way every year. We aren't competing with the "big boy schools", anyway. We just needed to find a good, young, up-and-coming coach who knows what he's doing. But I guess we'll wait one more season.

I agree that there’s openings every year. But how many times is it USC west coast, Oklahoma, lsu, Florida, Virginia tech, possibly ole miss, Miami, etc.
and then you say we will need an up and coming coach, but that’s kind of what we did now and look how well that turned out.

 

[bobongo]

I agree that there’s openings every year. But how many times is it USC west coast, Oklahoma, lsu, Florida, Virginia tech, possibly ole miss, Miami, etc.
and then you say we will need an up and coming coach, but that’s kind of what we did now and look how well that turned out.

Of course, there are up and coming coaches who don't pan out. Proves nothing. I can also point to many who turned out great. All of the coaches now in P5 were in the lower levels previously.

 

[lv20gt]

It's that way every year. We aren't competing with the "big boy schools", anyway. We just needed to find a good, young, up-and-coming coach who knows what he's doing. But I guess we'll wait one more season.

The issue isn't with competing directly with the big boys. It's with the butterfly effect from it. OU's coach leaves for OU. Suddenly OU goes after someone. They take the coach of some smaller program that has done well and now that smaller program that is set up well is looking for a coach. If you are an up-and-coming coach you likely want to wait to see what jobs open up and would likely rather land at a place that is replacing a coach hired away for success than fired for a lack there of because it will likely be a better situation.

The bigger issue is with attracting the more promising up and coming coaches and not just younger coaches with mild success. And that is where money comes into play. Yes, I know there are reports that we have the money to fire Collins this year. The interesting thing about phrasing is that it can hide things what isn't said. What is important isn't getting rid of Collins but rather attracting a quality coach after, and having the money to do the former doesn't mean we have the money to make the latter likely.

 

[g0lftime]

Moving to the SEC is probably the reason the OU coach bailed on them. Much better chance to make the playoffs in the PAC10. The NCAA has created a monster with opening things up with NIL and transfers. It's totally semi pro ball now. Probably has been for a while now but really blatant now.
Maybe time to reorg into a more scholastic set of conferences and forget trying to compete with the big universities that are all about football revenue.
We are paying losing football coaches more than CEO's of major corporations. It's gotten crazy.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I agree that there’s openings every year. But how many times is it USC west coast, Oklahoma, lsu, Florida, Virginia tech, possibly ole miss, Miami, etc.
and then you say we will need an up and coming coach, but that’s kind of what we did now and look how well that turned out.

All these teams are in the same boat as we are and it is correct that any year we make a change we will have competition.

We either go after a proven winner like Monken, shell out the big bucks for a successful NFL assistant, or we find a hot coach from a lower division. It will be the same process any year.

 

[YoungSting]

All these teams are in the same boat as we are and it is correct that any year we make a change we will have competition.

We either go after a proven winner like Monken, shell out the big bucks for a successful NFL assistant, or we find a hot coach from a lower division. It will be the same process any year.

No no, these schools are not in the same boat we are. They can spend much more money than we can. And that makes a big difference when putting a full staff together

 

[JacketOff]

I stopped reading after the first sentence. They’re better because they are winning other games many other ones in fact. This is a ridiculous conclusion.

If they’re so much better than Collins how are they losing to him? If they could have lead Tech to better records how are they losing to Tech? Many of those in that group inherited much better rosters and rosters suited for their systems than Collins did. Brian Kelly, Kirby Smart, Narduzzi, Bronco Mendenhall, and Fuentes have never lost to Collins. A lot of people would say Satterfield is a better coach than Fuentes, Bronco, and Narduzzi, so how did he lose to Tech and those 3 haven’t? How did Manny Diaz inherit one of the most talented teams in the country and lose to Collins and Tech? How did national champion Mack Brown take a preseason Heisman candidate and top 15 team and lose to Collins? How did Cutcliffe, who people rave as being one of the best coaches in the country, become the only coach that Collins beat multiple times?

Just because you have your narrative and have drawn your own conclusions doesnt mean these aren’t questions worth looking into. You didn’t even acknowledge the main point of the post because you had already jumped to a conclusions: The program being in poor shape in 2019 and 2021 don’t have to be mutually exclusive

 

[Northeast Stinger]

No no, these schools are not in the same boat we are. They can spend much more money than we can. And that makes a big difference when putting a full staff together

I hear you but sooner or later we have to put up the money, otherwise we will have to step down a division. That’s the new landscape. And TStan claims we have the money to do that unless you don’t believe him.

 

[bke1984]

If they’re so much better than Collins how are they losing to him? If they could have lead Tech to better records how are they losing to Tech? Many of those in that group inherited much better rosters and rosters suited for their systems than Collins did. Brian Kelly, Kirby Smart, Narduzzi, Bronco Mendenhall, and Fuentes have never lost to Collins. A lot of people would say Satterfield is a better coach than Fuentes, Bronco, and Narduzzi, so how did he lose to Tech and those 3 haven’t? How did Manny Diaz inherit one of the most talented teams in the country and lose to Collins and Tech? How did national champion Mack Brown take a preseason Heisman candidate and top 15 team and lose to Collins? How did Cutcliffe, who people rave as being one of the best coaches in the country, become the only coach that Collins beat multiple times?

Just because you have your narrative and have drawn your own conclusions doesnt mean these aren’t questions worth looking into. You didn’t even acknowledge the main point of the post because you had already jumped to a conclusions: The program being in poor shape in 2019 and 2021 don’t have to be mutually exclusive

So, does that mean that everyone that Bear Bryant, Bobby Dodd, Robert Neyland lost to were better coaches than them?

 

[okiemon]

Someone mentioned earlier that both Mark Bradley and Ken Sugiura wrote blistering columns after the game Saturday. If you haven’t seen it and have a subscription, Jeff Shultz wrote perhaps an even stronger one in the Athletic. And today, with the news that Gibbs entered the transfer portal, Bradley wrote another. All of them are pretty brutal.

 

[Adadu]

Get Collins the **** out, now. Just imagine how other talented players are going to look at the Gibbs situation. Honestly, I don't see myself going to a game next year unless we magically replace our biggest game-breaker and somehow overhaul the defense. So sad to see the only true bright spot on our team depart, but these coaches 100% deserve it. What the **** man.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

I believe next football season we will be looking back on this season with fond nostalgia. It will almost assuredly be worse than what we saw this year.

I hope I am wrong, but I can’t see it any other way.

 

[Towaliga]

I agree, Stech. I have been doing my fair share of complaining, especially after the past two games. However, the decision has been made to retain most of the current staff, so it's time for me to shut up. Come next fall, I'll be sitting in my seats cheering and hoping CGC has righted the ship and made us all look like idiots for wanting to get rid of him.

For the record, I wrote the above post before hearing about Gibbs entering the portal. I retract my above post. I'll probably still be sitting in my seats, but I don't think I'll have much to cheer about.

 

[bke1984]

I believe next football season we will be looking back on this season with fond nostalgia. It will almost assuredly be worse than what we saw this year.

I hope I am wrong, but I can’t see it any other way.

Maybe. Problem is that as good as Jamyhr is we did a piss poor job of utilizing him. We never really put him in a position to succeed, but instead just relied on his natural ability to create huge plays. If we bring in a better OC we could be much better on offense even without him.

 

[Lee]

Maybe. Problem is that as good as Jamyhr is we did a piss poor job of utilizing him. We never really put him in a position to succeed, but instead just relied on his natural ability to create huge plays. If we bring in a better OC we could be much better on offense even without him.

Yea we’ll miss his unique skills, but we’ve got 2 guys that can play with a 4 star coming in this year and another commuted next year.

We need to bolster the OL and a creative OC that can exploit weaknesses and adjust in game when the opposing team does.