Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

[GTBlaze]

I’m tired of the FGC thread. What’s Next? What do you see the program doing to go forward?

I envision firing the DC ASAP. If this doesn’t happen at the end of the season I will begin to question the higher ups. Something HAS to change. Collins is supposed to be a D guy so why have we been atrocious on that side?

I don’t think Collins is gone until after next year unless he loses this team and we see mass transfers and loss of the high quality commitments. If Collins can hold onto the locker room and continue to improve the quality of our players, I am ok with the continuity BUT something has to be shaken up, correct?

I see us ending 3-9 and that’s unacceptable IMO. Yes games are close but we won against Duke when we shouldn’t have. I know people hate CDP but his scheme has set us up but the players haven’t made the plays. Can you say the same for Thacker? Also…do you think our quality of players has limited Thacker?

Any defense for him?

Lots of questions….

If tech had somewhat of a decent defense we would be bowling this season

 

[4shotB]

If we’re not able to get rid of Collins this year, I say let him decide what to do moving forward. When things aren’t going well and it’s too soon to can the HC, firing coordinators is the default solution of fans and media members who don’t really know what’s going on. If Collins is going to be here, I think he needs to own whatever solutions we try to put this this dumpster fire out. I like the suggestion of hiring a coordinator who has next HC potential, but if we do need to hire a coordinator, we’ll be lucky to any good coordinator who wants to volunteer to jump on this sinking ship.

I think this makes the most sense. I think if you bring in the DC who is the next man up at the HC position, I don't possibly see how that works out. You might as well make the change now and we can't afford it. As an aside, I was once sent to a plant out West to "assist" a guy who was struggling. The guy I was 'helping" left after a few weeks although I or the people above did not specifically force him out. I think it was an ego thing as I used to work for this guy. I saw it in the corporate gig a few times after - when the people at top are giving you "help" you did not ask for, it never works out. You have to figure it out on your own. Or perish.

I agree with you. Set targets for next year with expected outcomes. I think making a bowl game is a realistic and achievable goal. Inform him of the consequences of missing those targets. Offer whatever budgetary assistance he needs/we can afford to make staffing changes if he so desires. Then get out of his way. Don't tell him who he has to hire. No one is going to quit under those circumstances and nullify the buyout. He is not CPJ retiring after a long and fruitful career who could walk away from the $. If this thing does not work out, it is highly likely that he will never see a 7 figure salary again. Although with salary escalation, he may end up at a DC job again at a p5 school and make that kind of money.

 

[BuzzStone]

In a year where the ACC is the worst it has been in at least 15 years a 3-9 season is unacceptable.

I see next year being tough. We average 12K fans a game all season long and end the year without going to a bowl game again. If it doesn't change then its apparent football is not a priority.

There are many people like me that have had season tickets that will not renew. If I was in GA and could attend games a bit easier I might stick it out another year or so but its just not worth it. If the Admin doesn't care about football and the head coach doesn't care about the fans why should I continue to but tickets? I can watch at home much more comfortably. That is not a good space to be in as a program when your fans that would travel from out of state every home game don't care to show up anymore.

 

[Vespidae]

I think this makes the most sense. I think if you bring in the DC who is the next man up at the HC position, I don't possibly see how that works out. You might as well make the change now and we can't afford it.

I get where you are coming from but ... I WAS that guy. I was sent in with a basic message of ... "I'm here to help you and if you let me help you, you get to stay in charge and keep earning the big salary. If you don't, I will replace you and you won't be. Your call."

Collins has already had 100% command over his staff and the results speak for themselves. It's time for the adults to step in and help him make better decisions. He is NOT succeeding.

 

[GTL]

How much time?

From the AJC:

All along, whenever Paul Johnson addressed the topic of retirement, he said he would stop coaching at Georgia Tech when he stopped enjoying it. That was evidently the point that Johnson reached this past season, his 11th at Tech and his 40th in coaching.
“I told (athletic director Todd Stansbury) in the middle of the year that it wasn’t much fun,” Johnson said Thursday at his news conference to answer questions about his decision to step down as the 12th full-time coach of the Yellow Jackets.

Do you honestly think that it was a surprise? Do you honestly think that during that sit down with Stansbury in the middle of the year that he didn't say he was likely to hang it up so that Stansbury could start putting out feelers? He gave more than adequate notice for the search to get whomever they could get.

Well said, pb. In addition any halfway competent DA keeps a running list of potential HC candidates in his pocket in case something unexpected occurs...which was not the case with PJ.

 

[slugboy]

And the players would have quit like they did the bowl game?

I was disappointed in the bowl game performance.

Looking back, all the coaches were getting ready to retire or looking for other jobs. With us moving away from the flexbone, a lot of the offensive players saw themselves getting replaced. Instead of going out on a high note, it was a sad trombone.

 

[cthenrys]

I think this makes the most sense. I think if you bring in the DC who is the next man up at the HC position, I don't possibly see how that works out. You might as well make the change now and we can't afford it. As an aside, I was once sent to a plant out West to "assist" a guy who was struggling. The guy I was 'helping" left after a few weeks although I or the people above did not specifically force him out. I think it was an ego thing as I used to work for this guy. I saw it in the corporate gig a few times after - when the people at top are giving you "help" you did not ask for, it never works out. You have to figure it out on your own. Or perish.

I agree with you. Set targets for next year with expected outcomes. I think making a bowl game is a realistic and achievable goal. Inform him of the consequences of missing those targets. Offer whatever budgetary assistance he needs/we can afford to make staffing changes if he so desires. Then get out of his way. Don't tell him who he has to hire. No one is going to quit under those circumstances and nullify the buyout. He is not CPJ retiring after a long and fruitful career who could walk away from the $. If this thing does not work out, it is highly likely that he will never see a 7 figure salary again. Although with salary escalation, he may end up at a DC job again at a p5 school and make that kind of money.

Understandable approach, and one that fits a situation where performance is below expectations but there is still a belief that it can be turned around. Performance to date has not been below expectations, it has been unacceptable, and I think you really have to be overly open minded to truly believe it can be turned around. Let's be honest, if there was not a buyout in play or if we had the resources, would we be talking about anything but dismissing CGC after this season. The results have been historically bad and there is no reason beyond his control that justify them (not historic transformations, not Covid, etc...).

It's a sunk cost issue at this point. Do we continue throwing good money after bad ? The irony is that CGC and his acolytes have made fun of the doubters since day 1 by saying that we need to start acting like a big time program - well, we know what they would do.

 

[GTcanWINagain]

When we hired Josh Pastner, there was a thought that Pastner wasn't the best basketball X's and O's coach, but he would recruit at a level where either GT did well and Pastner would move on leaving a full cupboard for the next coach, or he would get fired and the cupboard would be full enough to make the GT job attractive to other coaches.

Maybe that's what we get with CGC. Say what you will about the wins and losses and what's happened on the field, but the one thing you can't deny is CGC has improved our roster and GT's presence. There will be a LOT of guys from CGC's recruiting classes that will make All ACC and/or get drafted. He's signed and recruited a lot of guys with a LOT of ability. This roster will be a LOT more attractive if we have to hire another coach than it was when CGC was hired. That's not a slight to CPJ, that's just good work by CGC signing high level talent.

So he’s like Chan Gailey except without the wins and bowl games?

 

[Jmonty71]

There 2 different sets of answers, for the question posed.

There is what SHOULD happen and what WILL happen. In my eyes, we SHOULD have a new DC and OC, for next year. Now, WILL that happen?? I really don't know. The problem is, Collins has fallen into believing his delusions. I mean, if you say the same thing over and over, you start believing them. Things we aren't... "elite", "high level". Things every team we play isn't... "elite", "high level". However; when you cover failure with narratives and word play, it distracts from root causes and understanding the problem. You can look no further than own government, for classic examples. I truly believe that Collins is completely and utterly over his head. He will not admit it, because he is going to move the pass/fail goal posts, so that he always passes. The question should be is this. When will the rest of the fan base see this?? I get the program can't afford to let him go. However; I ask this... at what point does he do more damage to the program, than good? What will it take? Our best players to leave? To have players de-commit? To have yet another 3-9 season, next year and the year after that? At what point is enough, enough?? You asked what's next? Our AD is stuck.. He was dumb enough to load a huge contract on a pretty much untested HC. That's 100% on TStan. It will be up to TStan to fix that mistake. So, the answer is sit and wait for TStan to have enough....

 

[wesgt123]

Lots of our close losses haven’t really been that close. And to be honest, even our close wins we got lucky.

In 2019, when we scored against USF I do not think Mason crossed the goal line. I believe we got really lucky with that TD. I honestly don’t remember much from last year but I do know this year we got lucky to beat duke.

Main point being…we absolutely could have or would be looking at 2 win seasons. Easily.

But hey. Continue to grow. To develop. To build. Create margin.

 

[GTcanWINagain]

Lots of our close losses haven’t really been that close. And to be honest, even our close wins we got lucky.

In 2019, when we scored against USF I do not think Mason crossed the goal line. I believe we got really lucky with that TD. I honestly don’t remember much from last year but I do know this year we got lucky to beat duke.

Main point being…we absolutely could have or would be looking at 2 win seasons. Easily.

But hey. Continue to grow. To develop. To build. Create margin.

…and lots of garage yards in Sims stats after games are out of reach!

 

[buzzed]

In a year where the ACC is the worst it has been in at least 15 years a 3-9 season is unacceptable.

I see next year being tough. We average 12K fans a game all season long and end the year without going to a bowl game again. If it doesn't change then its apparent football is not a priority.

There are many people like me that have had season tickets that will not renew. If I was in GA and could attend games a bit easier I might stick it out another year or so but its just not worth it. If the Admin doesn't care about football and the head coach doesn't care about the fans why should I continue to but tickets? I can watch at home much more comfortably. That is not a good space to be in as a program when your fans that would travel from out of state every home game don't care to show up anymore.

I gave up my 4 season tickets for a pair of stinger mobile passes this year. I’ve missed some home games the past 2 years for the first time in 20+ years and no one I know is very interested in going to games anymore. The value of the uga ticket makes the stinger pass worth the price, but that’s become a ticket to sit in a sea of red while their bench warmers run circles around our poorly coached starters. Next year I might just get some free tickets to one of our games and otherwise watch from home while this nightmare plays out.

 

[Lee]

In a year where the ACC is the worst it has been in at least 15 years a 3-9 season is unacceptable.

I keep seeing people say this. Can you please explain how this is true?

It seems like because Clemson is down this year everyone just assumes the whole league is. The ACC is pretty much what it always is without Clemson being in the playoff picture.

There are currently 6 bowl eligible teams with a chance for 11 teams to get bowl eligible. Most likely the league will end up with 9.

There’s also a good chance the league ends up with 3 10 win teams.

Nobody is arguing the ACC is murderers row, but to act like it’s the worst in over a decade is just not as cut and dry as y’all are making it out to be.

Collins needs to do a much better job, but acting like our schedule is soft to try and pile on him isn’t necessary. There’s plenty of other things to go after.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

No one will be at the 2023 games, though

I'll be there. People that quit on their team when times are hard aren't true fans. They are bandwagon jumpers.

 

[4shotB]

I get where you are coming from but ... I WAS that guy. I was sent in with a basic message of ... "I'm here to help you and if you let me help you, you get to stay in charge and keep earning the big salary. If you don't, I will replace you and you won't be. Your call."

Collins has already had 100% command over his staff and the results speak for themselves. It's time for the adults to step in and help him make better decisions. He is NOT succeeding.

I see your point of view but frankly my opinion is when things reach this point, the outcome is inevitable. I don't think outside help has ever worked but your experience may be different than mine. Usually the guys getting "help" know they are in trouble and have fired all their bullets prior to their friends in the corner offices and the Brooks brothers suits getting involved. So TStan's involvement is highly likely to change outcomes (again, imo and drawing from my own work experiences). It will create the illusion of change maybe and a scalp or two may placate some. Maybe I am burnt out on an endless cycle of DC coordinator changes over the last 12-15 years. When 4,5 or 6 guys fail at the same task, maybe there are root cause issues and not just a string of "unlucky" choices. My highly unpopular opinion is give CGC and his staff the next year to meet hard targets. TStan should spend that year fixing (or improving) the root causes to make this job more attractive. His other priorities should be fund raising and thinking ahead to next HC in the event targets are not met.

 

[GTLorenzo]

I'll be there. People that quit on their team when times are hard aren't true fans. They are bandwagon jumpers.

There you go! Tell people who are frustrated by back to back to back 3 win seasons that they are bad fans. That'll show 'em!!

 

[Vespidae]

I see your point of view but frankly my opinion is when things reach this point, the outcome is inevitable. I don't think outside help has ever worked but your experience may be different than mine. Usually the guys getting "help" know they are in trouble and have fired all their bullets prior to their friends in the corner offices and the Brooks brothers suits getting involved. So TStan's involvement is highly likely to change outcomes (again, imo and drawing from my own work experiences). It will create the illusion of change maybe and a scalp or two may placate some. Maybe I am burnt out on an endless cycle of DC coordinator changes over the last 12-15 years. When 4,5 or 6 guys fail at the same task, maybe there are root cause issues and not just a string of "unlucky" choices. My highly unpopular opinion is give CGC and his staff the next year to meet hard targets. TStan should spend that year fixing (or improving) the root causes to make this job more attractive. His other priorities should be fund raising and thinking ahead to next HC in the event targets are not met.

I don't disagree. I think it's inevitable that Collins is going to be replaced. So TStan can either prepare for it either through transition by molding the team or ... as you said ... setting hard targets. Either way, the message is clear: Fish or cut bait.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Of course it's acceptable. You know why? You said it yourself ... "I don’t think Collins is gone until after next year".

Because there are no consequences, there is no reason to change. And TStan has almost no leverage over Collins because he has no funds with which to make a move. We are basically stuck like Chuck.

I think the Collins Experiment is over. He is not a good coach. And the reality (for him anyway), is the realization that he isn't going to get another job worth having after his performances at Temple (15-10) and Tech (9-25). Maybe MAC or Sun Belt. Maybe.

So, yes. I agree Collins is here through next year. If I were TStan, I would insist on a change in DC and be active in the search for a good one that can become a HC in waiting. And pay them. It will be far cheaper than the s&*t show we have shown so far. Restructure Collins contract and offer him 10 years remaining and make him AD for Football Operations. So he can play branding and run recruiting, but get him off the practice field and preferably not within 100 miles of BDS on game days.

With that scenario, I would get a OC and DC with the promise that one would be the HC in waiting, depending on performance. About the only way I would jump on a sinking ship. Similar to O’Leary and B*L*.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I keep seeing people say this. Can you please explain how this is true?

It seems like because Clemson is down this year everyone just assumes the whole league is. The ACC is pretty much what it always is without Clemson being in the playoff picture.

There are currently 6 bowl eligible teams with a chance for 11 teams to get bowl eligible. Most likely the league will end up with 9.

There’s also a good chance the league ends up with 3 10 win teams.

Nobody is arguing the ACC is murderers row, but to act like it’s the worst in over a decade is just not as cut and dry as y’all are making it out to be.

Collins needs to do a much better job, but acting like our schedule is soft to try and pile on him isn’t necessary. There’s plenty of other things to go after.

Watch the end of year rankings. ND would win the ACC this year in a run away fashion. Name one top ten team in the ACC. Heck, name a top 25 team. We dodged the two best teams in Wake and State, and I’m not sold on either as being that great. We will get left out of the playoffs for the first time in a while.
There are maybe 15-20 teams that are not in our conference, that could win it handily.

 

[stech81]

Time to close this we know who don't want CGC here maybe after 2023 we can open a new one