Mostly “Fire Geoff Collins”, some reminiscing, maybe bourbon or other distractions

Animal02

Banned
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The attached link has the info. It basically says if we fire him prior to 4 years, we owe the remaining value of the contract. So, if we fire him this year, we would owe him roughly 14 million. If we fire him after the 4th year (ie next year), we owe him 7.2m. The 7.2m is not a crippling buyout.
Another year of sub 30k attendance will cost far more than 14 million
 

pbrown520

Ramblin' Wreck
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586
But we didn’t. We literally tried to run some obscure offense with Tobias and it didn’t work.


As hard as it may seems, we are close. Right now, we just give up waaayyyy too many chunk plays on defense. 60 plays of 20yds or more in 10gms. That’s a little over double of what you’ll see in typical yr. CGC just need make some tough decisions and get rid of buddies and some GT alums. Next yr is the deadline. You’ll finally have your first class of your upperclassmen and some war daddies that should be to compete

We didn't try to run anything with Tobias. Just like PJ could only run his offense, Patenaude can only run his. You can't just toss a coach out there and run whatever scheme you want. Having said that, the vanilla offense that we run isn't the problem. I don't think it will ever be great, but it can be mediocre to good.

The defense is absolutely atrocious and there is no excuse for it whatsoever. This is a huge endictment of Collins. It's his bag. Does anyone really think he hasn't been heavily involved there? I don't see how he fixes it in 1 season, but who knows...
 

JacketOff

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Scoring the same with more possessions per game isn’t really comparable though.
Two points per drive is far lower than 2.88 in CPJ last year.
https://www.bcftoys.com/2021-ppd
Who cares what the PPD is? How many points you have at the end of the game is all that matters, and this team is scoring the same or more points than just about every PJ team, with 2014 being a pretty large outlier. Sure having more PPD and reducing the number of possessions your opponent has helps the defense out, but point totals at the end of the game is what determines wins and losses. And if you want to look at it through PPD lens, we’re actually playing better defense right now than we did in 2018.
 

ilovetheoption

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Who cares what the PPD is? How many points you have at the end of the game is all that matters, and this team is scoring the same or more points than just about every PJ team, with 2014 being a pretty large outlier. Sure having more PPD and reducing the number of possessions your opponent has helps the defense out, but point totals at the end of the game is what determines wins and losses. And if you want to look at it through PPD lens, we’re actually playing better defense right now than we did in 2018.

It also reduces the number of possessions the other team gets. Arguing that the team is as good on offense as PJ's teams because they score as many point, regardless of number of possessions is an argument that's not sending people the message about you that you probably want to send.
 
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Techster

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This is the most talent on BOTH sides of the ball I can remember us having since the 2008 team. We are nowhere near having that kind of team under this staff.

Someone will need to convince me that a decent coach doesn't get us wins this season against: NIU, UVA, VT, Miami. As mediocre as Clemson is this season, you can make an argument that we should have beaten them as well. IMO, we should have at least 7 wins right now. This is a down year in the Coastal (and ACC overall), and with the talent we have on the roster, we should be in a battle for an ACC Championship appearance. Instead, we are going to roll into the offseason with an almost certain 3 straight 3 win seasons.

The baseline at GT should be a bowl game. From 1997 to 2014 we went to a bowl game. GT had the second longest bowl streak in the nation at one point...and there was a time we made 19 bowl games in 21 seasons. There's no reason why a team with this talent shouldn't make a bowl game. Instead, we're talking about the CGC line of 3 wins. Bowl games have never looked so hard to achieve...and over half the teams in the NCAA end up going bowling.

I have an uneasy feeling that the ultimate outcome for CGC is inevitable...now it's just a matter of how much TStan is willing to swallow. I'm sure some of the big money guys will be patient as quite a few of them were the ones that pushed for CGC. No one likes to be wrong...unfortunately, it's the people who pull the strings that made the CGC decision. My worst fear is CGC makes a bowl game next season and TStan gives him some ridiculous extension "for recruiting purposes" and we continue to struggle even winning 4-5 games. Unfortunately, our sports leadership has a history of making really bad decisions that have saddled our athletic department for years.
 

JacketOff

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It also reduces the number of possessions the other team gets. Arguing that the team is as good on offense as PJ's teams because they score as many point, regardless of number of possessions is an argument that's not sending people the message about you that you probably want to send.
I literally said cutting down on the total number of possessions helps the defense out. But all that matters is who has the most points at the end of the game. And since the one guy brought it up, I countered with the fact that according to PPD data, our defense is playing better this year than in 2018. I really don’t give a **** about PPD. All that matters is what’s in the totals boxes at the end of the game, and this team is putting the same numbers in that box as all but 1 or 2 of the 11 years CPJ was here.

All of that to say, once again, the offense isn’t the problem.
 

DavidStandingBear

Jolly Good Fellow
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311
Location
McKinney TX
This is the most talent on BOTH sides of the ball I can remember us having since the 2008 team. We are nowhere near having that kind of team under this staff.

Someone will need to convince me that a decent coach doesn't get us wins this season against: NIU, UVA, VT, Miami. As mediocre as Clemson is this season, you can make an argument that we should have beaten them as well. IMO, we should have at least 7 wins right now. This is a down year in the Coastal (and ACC overall), and with the talent we have on the roster, we should be in a battle for an ACC Championship appearance. Instead, we are going to roll into the offseason with an almost certain 3 straight 3 win seasons.

The baseline at GT should be a bowl game. From 1997 to 2014 we went to a bowl game. GT had the second longest bowl streak in the nation at one point...and there was a time we made 19 bowl games in 21 seasons. There's no reason why a team with this talent shouldn't make a bowl game. Instead, we're talking about the CGC line of 3 wins. Bowl games have never looked so hard to achieve...and over half the teams in the NCAA end up going bowling.

I have an uneasy feeling that the ultimate outcome for CGC is inevitable...now it's just a matter of how much TStan is willing to swallow. I'm sure some of the big money guys will be patient as quite a few of them were the ones that pushed for CGC. No one likes to be wrong...unfortunately, it's the people who pull the strings that made the CGC decision. My worst fear is CGC makes a bowl game next season and TStan gives him some ridiculous extension "for recruiting purposes" and we continue to struggle even winning 4-5 games. Unfortunately, our sports leadership has a history of making really bad decisions that have saddled our athletic department for years.
He’ll have to get an extension next year or he can’t recruit, then it’s tstan’s fault
 

JacketOff

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Why would the alumni trust tstan’s judgement? Not gonna contribute another dime to tstan
Baseball hosted a regional for the first time since 2011 and made back-to-back NCAA tournaments for the first time since making 7 in a row from 2008-2014

Basketball made their first NCAAT since 2010 and won the ACCT for the first time since 1993.

Women’s basketball made the NCAAT for the first time since 2014, and the Sweet Sixteen for just the 2nd time ever

Volleyball won the NIT, made their first NCAAT in over a decade, and is currently ranked in the top 15.

Golf, Swim & Dive, and Tennis are also competing at the highest levels in their sports.

GT finished with its highest ranking in the Director’s Cup in over a decade, and it’s 3rd highest ever. GT and Texas Tech were the only 2 schools in the top 50 with 17 or fewer sports, and there were only 9 schools in the top 50 with fewer than 20 sports.

It’s not TStan’s fault. No matter how hard anybody tries to make it his fault, it’s not. TStan is overseeing one of the best overall periods in Georgia Tech sports in the modern era. I understand a lot of people are pissed at Collins and GT football, but cutting donations simply because you don’t like the head football coach will do nothing but push GT down into ineptitude in all sports.
 

DavidStandingBear

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311
Location
McKinney TX
Baseball hosted a regional for the first time since 2011 and made back-to-back NCAA tournaments for the first time since making 7 in a row from 2008-2014

Basketball made their first NCAAT since 2010 and won the ACCT for the first time since 1993.

Women’s basketball made the NCAAT for the first time since 2014, and the Sweet Sixteen for just the 2nd time ever

Volleyball won the NIT, made their first NCAAT in over a decade, and is currently ranked in the top 15.

Golf, Swim & Dive, and Tennis are also competing at the highest levels in their sports.

GT finished with its highest ranking in the Director’s Cup in over a decade, and it’s 3rd highest ever. GT and Texas Tech were the only 2 schools in the top 50 with 17 or fewer sports, and there were only 9 schools in the top 50 with fewer than 20 sports.

It’s not TStan’s fault. No matter how hard anybody tries to make it his fault, it’s not. TStan is overseeing one of the best overall periods in Georgia Tech sports in the modern era. I understand a lot of people are pissed at Collins and GT football, but cutting donations simply because you don’t like the head football coach will do nothing but push GT down into ineptitude in all sports.
Ok, you might be right. Which of those coaches did tstan hire and give 7 year contracts to? I actually don’t know.
 

JacketOff

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Ok, you might be right. Which of those coaches did tstan hire and give 7 year contracts to? I actually don’t know.
He extended Danny Hall, and gave enough money to hire Ramsey, who in all likelihood will succeed CDH

He extended Pastner before his NCAAT run

He hired Nell Fortner

Since TStan has been AD, just about every athletic facility has been upgraded, including massive upgrades to Russ Chandler and the Zelnak basketball facility. The Edge building is scheduled for a massive upgrade

Hiring/firing coaches is a large part of an AD’s job, but it’s far and away from being the only job they have. I’d almost say it’s not even the most important. Raising money and allocating funds might be the most important, which TStan has done as good at as any GT AD ever and on par with Homer Rice. Also duties of note are: providing a good environment of leadership, being a good spokesperson, media relations, and the relationship with the fans.

People are looking back in hindsight and saying the Collins contract is bad and therefore TStan should face repercussions aren’t being logical. We weren’t going to hire another 3O coach so Monken was off the table. There was nobody in the hunt who would’ve accepted a contract much different than what Collins eventually got. Satterfield got 6 years at $3.25M per at Louisville and he was a “proven” G5 coach moving to a program that had plenty of recent success. You think we could’ve got him for cheaper or less years to turn over a 3O roster than what we gave Collins? No.

Tony Elliot has never been a HC of any team, and he can’t seem to figure out how to move a team full of 4 and 5 stars down the field. You think he would’ve been a good hire? We probably could’ve signed him to a 5 year contract, but no shot he takes $3M a year. He’s making $2M being just an OC, and judging his year at Clemson this year absolutely no guarantee he would be any better than what we are.

Whisenhunt has a pretty terrible career as an NFL coach, with no signs of being better as a college coach. Most NFL coordinators are making north of $1M, and there’s absolutely no reason he would’ve accepted less than $3M to accompany all of the additional hassles that come with being a college HC

Bohannon is about the only coach who we realistically probably could’ve got for a decent amount cheaper than Collins. But he has no experience as an FBS HC, and barely any as an FBS coach at all. Plus runs an offense similar to CPJ’s 3O. Would he have been dramatically better than CGC? Maybe, but there’s nothing that says he definitely would be.

CGC was hired because he’s a salesman. He was hired to try and get Tech as far away from the 3O narrative as possible and to focus on recruiting to raise the talent level as much as possible. Our team talent composite went from 50th in 2018 to 33rd in 2021. That’s a substantial bump. I don’t think anyone really foresaw Collins only winning 3 games in each of his first 3 years. I think 2019 it was “acceptable” because it was year 1, and 2020 was weird because of Covid. But I guarantee you nobody including TStan or CGC actually believed 3-9 would repeat itself this year. TStan saw a coach who could change a narrative, increase talent, maybe make a couple of low level bowl games, and set up a great scenario for the next guy. That’s the rational way to look at things. Or you could just stay mad and call TStan an idiot and refuse to help GTAA and watch as every GT athletic program goes down the sh*tter because you don't like the head football coach
 

ilovetheoption

Helluva Engineer
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2,812
I literally said cutting down on the total number of possessions helps the defense out. But all that matters is who has the most points at the end of the game. And since the one guy brought it up, I countered with the fact that according to PPD data, our defense is playing better this year than in 2018. I really don’t give a **** about PPD. All that matters is what’s in the totals boxes at the end of the game, and this team is putting the same numbers in that box as all but 1 or 2 of the 11 years CPJ was here.

All of that to say, once again, the offense isn’t the problem.

Maybe putting it in different context will help get the point across.

Are you a basketball guy? Who had a better shooting night, the guy who went 5-5, or the guy who went 6-23?

Similarly, the team that scores 5 touchdowns in 5 drives is better on offense than the team that scores 6 touchdowns in 10 drives, because you only get as many drives as your opposition.

The point is, you really SHOULD give a **** about PPD.

To wit, if you're playing better on defense than in 2018, that's a good thing. That said, the 2018 team was a pretty bad defensive team. Fortunately they were a devastating offensive team, which is how they eeked out a winning record.

The total number in that box are a product of the PPD.

Unless you think UVa was a bad offensive team a couple years ago when they won the national title with super efficient scoring but low tempo.
 

Js-showman

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
340
He extended Danny Hall, and gave enough money to hire Ramsey, who in all likelihood will succeed CDH

He extended Pastner before his NCAAT run

He hired Nell Fortner

Since TStan has been AD, just about every athletic facility has been upgraded, including massive upgrades to Russ Chandler and the Zelnak basketball facility. The Edge building is scheduled for a massive upgrade

Hiring/firing coaches is a large part of an AD’s job, but it’s far and away from being the only job they have. I’d almost say it’s not even the most important. Raising money and allocating funds might be the most important, which TStan has done as good at as any GT AD ever and on par with Homer Rice. Also duties of note are: providing a good environment of leadership, being a good spokesperson, media relations, and the relationship with the fans.

People are looking back in hindsight and saying the Collins contract is bad and therefore TStan should face repercussions aren’t being logical. We weren’t going to hire another 3O coach so Monken was off the table. There was nobody in the hunt who would’ve accepted a contract much different than what Collins eventually got. Satterfield got 6 years at $3.25M per at Louisville and he was a “proven” G5 coach moving to a program that had plenty of recent success. You think we could’ve got him for cheaper or less years to turn over a 3O roster than what we gave Collins? No.

Tony Elliot has never been a HC of any team, and he can’t seem to figure out how to move a team full of 4 and 5 stars down the field. You think he would’ve been a good hire? We probably could’ve signed him to a 5 year contract, but no shot he takes $3M a year. He’s making $2M being just an OC, and judging his year at Clemson this year absolutely no guarantee he would be any better than what we are.

Whisenhunt has a pretty terrible career as an NFL coach, with no signs of being better as a college coach. Most NFL coordinators are making north of $1M, and there’s absolutely no reason he would’ve accepted less than $3M to accompany all of the additional hassles that come with being a college HC

Bohannon is about the only coach who we realistically probably could’ve got for a decent amount cheaper than Collins. But he has no experience as an FBS HC, and barely any as an FBS coach at all. Plus runs an offense similar to CPJ’s 3O. Would he have been dramatically better than CGC? Maybe, but there’s nothing that says he definitely would be.

CGC was hired because he’s a salesman. He was hired to try and get Tech as far away from the 3O narrative as possible and to focus on recruiting to raise the talent level as much as possible. Our team talent composite went from 50th in 2018 to 33rd in 2021. That’s a substantial bump. I don’t think anyone really foresaw Collins only winning 3 games in each of his first 3 years. I think 2019 it was “acceptable” because it was year 1, and 2020 was weird because of Covid. But I guarantee you nobody including TStan or CGC actually believed 3-9 would repeat itself this year. TStan saw a coach who could change a narrative, increase talent, maybe make a couple of low level bowl games, and set up a great scenario for the next guy. That’s the rational way to look at things. Or you could just stay mad and call TStan an idiot and refuse to help GTAA and watch as every GT athletic program goes down the sh*tter because you don't like the head football coach
I believed 3-9 would repeat. As did a lot of others.
 

JacketOff

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2,949
I believed 3-9 would repeat. As did a lot of others.
You thought he would go 3-9 again because you’re a fan of the option and wanted him to fail to prove a point. You also thought Whisenhunt would be a good hire. No one who has truly followed the team thought this year would end up at 3-9, and really we should’ve ended up with at least 5 wins this year, and could’ve had 7-8.
 

Jophish17

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
440
As hard as it may seems, we are close. Right now, we just give up waaayyyy too many chunk plays on defense. 60 plays of 20yds or more in 10gms. That’s a little over double of what you’ll see in typical yr. CGC just need make some tough decisions and get rid of buddies and some GT alums. Next yr is the deadline. You’ll finally have your first class of your upperclassmen and some war daddies that should be to compete
I saw that, it’s an insane stat. I think most folks here will say we had a great offense in 2014. We had 68 20+ yard plays all year (14 games) - limiting explosive plays really would make a huge difference
 
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