MJ vs JeT

[dressedcheeseside]

There seems to be quite a bit of angst, or at least uneasiness, among many of the faithful with the departure of JT. JT's dynamic playmaking ability, especially his knack for making something out of nothing with his elusiveness, will be sorely missed from an entertainment standpoint, if nothing else. But what if we are in far fewer 3rd and longs?

That's what I think we will get with MJ at the helm. I think our production on first down will go up giving us a higher percentage of 3rd-and-shorts. 5+ on first down will once again be the norm rather than the exception. It will give us more options on 2nd and 3rd (no pun intended) which has added effect of keeping the defense honest, or better yet, keep them guessing. When they guess wrong, we get the homerun and we have plenty of playmakers surrounding MJ to break off big plays.

We lose a big part of our offense with the loss of JeT, but we gain the return of a much missed part, the inside qb run and all that goes along with it (freezing the MLB for a half second will have a huge advantage on our edge game). The net effect cancels out, imo.

Also, Mills is a huge part of this scenario. We'll have a legitimate two-headed monster on the inside. How are linebackers and safeties going to be able to afford to get a head-start to the Aback motion side when that means leaving a void up the middle.

I'll leave you with this play. It shows what happens when they do:

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Another play that we'll see reemerge is the rocket toss. Linebacker eyes frozen in the backfield frees up the edge.

Makes me think of the Rockne speech: "We're gonna hit them inside, we're gonna hit them outside, we're gonna get them on the run and keep 'em on the run, then we're gonna go go go and we're not gonna stop till we cross that goal line..."

 

[GT_Dre27]

At some point, we will need MJ to be able to move the offense with his arm. Many of those 3rd and longs we faced and successfully completed under JeT were in part due to defensive coordinators respect for what JeT could do in the passing game. They were not inclined to place 8 defenders at the line of scrimmage and dare JeT to beat them with his arms, because they knew he could. Thus, dropping 5/6 into coverage, in turn, opening running lanes and stretching the defense to cover the entire field of play.
This is the element will will need from the next QB. I like MJ's toughness and nose for running north and south, hence, my reasoning for utilizing his skill set at B back or WR.
There are others in camp right now that somewhat fit what JeT brought to the table, not identical, but has that knack to be that true dual threat at the helm of CPJ's unique offense.
Lucas Johnson comes to mind. I believe he's more of a polished passer than MJ at the moment and we have some big physical WRs that has the ability to take advantage of the single coverage they will be facing 75% of their offensive snaps.
Marshall is another viable option at QB.

 

[calvin forever]

Very much agree that the inside power run game is crucial to opening up the outside game and, as you mentioned, staying on schedule/avoiding 2nd and long.

In 2014 we had that inside power run via Laskey/Days/Shaq. Last year Mills. In '15 we were inadequate in that area. Now with MJ and Mills I expect we can really wear people out up the middle. Of course the oline firing off their blocks is a crucial piece.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

What you posted is sacrilege, and I agree with it. One is more like Barry Sanders, who averages 5 ypc but with a standard deviation of +/- 4 yards, and one is more like John Riggins who averages 4.3 ypc but with a standard deviation of +/- 1 yard. They each have positives and negatives and you can win with either. You just run a different set of plays out of the playbook to maximize each guy's skill set. We will be fine with MJ just like we were fine with JT.

 

[stech81]

At some point, we will need MJ to be able to move the offense with his arm. Many of those 3rd and longs we faced and successfully completed under JeT were in part due to defensive coordinators respect for what JeT could do in the passing game. They were not inclined to place 8 defenders at the line of scrimmage and dare JeT to beat them with his arms, because they knew he could. Thus, dropping 5/6 into coverage, in turn, opening running lanes and stretching the defense to cover the entire field of play.
This is the element will will need from the next QB. I like MJ's toughness and nose for running north and south, hence, my reasoning for utilizing his skill set at B back or WR.
There are others in camp right now that somewhat fit what JeT brought to the table, not identical, but has that knack to be that true dual threat at the helm of CPJ's unique offense.
Lucas Johnson comes to mind. I believe he's more of a polished passer than MJ at the moment and we have some big physical WRs that has the ability to take advantage of the single coverage they will be facing 75% of their offensive snaps.
Marshall is another viable option at QB.

First I guess I saw things a little different, I watched teams put 8 defenders in the box with JeT. Maybe you are able to see the players practice which I'm not but till I see them I can't say one player can pass better than the other. What I saw with MJ is a QB that runs the option like it was meet to be run. I know some said he kept the ball too much and would not pitch the ball to the A-back but not knowing what CPJ called I have no idea if that is what he was told. Maybe after the spring game we will know which one will be better the run our offense.
If the OL plays like I think they can and the WR's carry out their blocks I don't think you will see too many 3rd the longs. I think some will be very surprised with MJ at QB , I know I was last year at VT.

 

[FredJacket]

Our success is highly dependent on possessing/protecting the ball. I believe we settled into taking for granted how well JeT performed in this department. We'll see if MJ can do the same. Granted, Blacksburg is a very tough environment... but in his single start there in 2016, he was credited with 3 fumbles (none lost) and the team was credited with 1 fumble (lost) in that game. If memory serves, that fumble involved him...opening play of the 2nd half? We know now it didn't kill us; but I recall a pretty sick feeling in my gut. In addition to all the stuff mentioned already.... gotta protect the ball. It's imperative.

 

[RyanS12]

There seems to be quite a bit of angst, or at least uneasiness, among many of the faithful with the departure of JT. JT's dynamic playmaking ability, especially his knack for making something out of nothing with his elusiveness, will be sorely missed from an entertainment standpoint, if nothing else. But what if we are in far fewer 3rd and longs?

That's what I think we will get with MJ at the helm. I think our production on first down will go up giving us a higher percentage of 3rd-and-shorts. 5+ on first down will once again be the norm rather than the exception. It will give us more options on 2nd and 3rd (no pun intended) which has added effect of keeping the defense honest, or better yet, keep them guessing. When they guess wrong, we get the homerun and we have plenty of playmakers surrounding MJ to break off big plays.

We lose a big part of our offense with the loss of JeT, but we gain the return of a much missed part, the inside qb run and all that goes along with it (freezing the MLB for a half second will have a huge advantage on our edge game). The net effect cancels out, imo.

Also, Mills is a huge part of this scenario. We'll have a legitimate two-headed monster on the inside. How are linebackers and safeties going to be able to afford to get a head-start to the Aback motion side when that means leaving a void up the middle.

I'll leave you with this play. It shows what happens when they do:

Damn you MM for transferring.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

First I guess I saw things a little different, I watched teams put 8 defenders in the box with JeT. Maybe you are able to see the players practice which I'm not but till I see them I can't say one player can pass better than the other. What I saw with MJ is a QB that runs the option like it was meet to be run. I know some said he kept the ball too much and would not pitch the ball to the A-back but not knowing what CPJ called I have no idea if that is what he was told. Maybe after the spring game we will know which one will be better the run our offense.
If the OL plays like I think they can and the WR's carry out their blocks I don't think you will see too many 3rd the longs. I think some will be very surprised with MJ at QB , I know I was last year at VT.

Your memory is correct - CPJ was telling him to default to keeping it. I think that's because if there is any gap there, MJ can get 4 yards from it. I think with more time practicing with the 1s (as he did all off season), he's going to turn out to be even more solid than he already was.

 

[grandpa jacket]

There seems to be quite a bit of angst, or at least uneasiness, among many of the faithful with the departure of JT. JT's dynamic playmaking ability, especially his knack for making something out of nothing with his elusiveness, will be sorely missed from an entertainment standpoint, if nothing else. But what if we are in far fewer 3rd and longs?

That's what I think we will get with MJ at the helm. I think our production on first down will go up giving us a higher percentage of 3rd-and-shorts. 5+ on first down will once again be the norm rather than the exception. It will give us more options on 2nd and 3rd (no pun intended) which has added effect of keeping the defense honest, or better yet, keep them guessing. When they guess wrong, we get the homerun and we have plenty of playmakers surrounding MJ to break off big plays.

We lose a big part of our offense with the loss of JeT, but we gain the return of a much missed part, the inside qb run and all that goes along with it (freezing the MLB for a half second will have a huge advantage on our edge game). The net effect cancels out, imo.

Also, Mills is a huge part of this scenario. We'll have a legitimate two-headed monster on the inside. How are linebackers and safeties going to be able to afford to get a head-start to the Aback motion side when that means leaving a void up the middle.

I'll leave you with this play. It shows what happens when they do:

I am concerned about the QB situation, i am cautiously optimstic

 

[Deleted member 2897]

On a side note, of our 8 ACC opponents, only Wake Forest is starting the same Quarterback this year.

 

[Chas_Jacket]

The VT game was a bit of a mystery to me. Was VT overconfident with Jet out? Did the other 10 on our offense decide to step up without Jet or is MJ that solid and brings a different element to the O? My thought is it was a little bit of all three.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

The VT game was a bit of a mystery to me. Was VT overconfident with Jet out? Did the other 10 on our offense decide to step up without Jet or is MJ that solid and brings a different element to the O? My thought is it was a little bit of all three.

I think they just prepared for stopping our outside pitch game like everybody else and couldn't adjust all game long. It was very perplexing to me. If you focus on the VT defense on most of our big plays, you had guys way out of position and we took advantage of it. They continued flow outside based on Aback motion leaving huge voids in the middle.

 

[kittysniper101]

I think they just prepared for stopping our outside pitch game like everybody else and couldn't adjust all game long. It was very perplexing to me. If you focus on the VT defense on most of our big plays, you had guys way out of position and we took advantage of it. They continued flow outside based on Aback motion leaving huge voids in the middle.

It wasn't just a-back motion. Watch the guard play and linebacker movement. They keyed off of pulling guard and flowed aggressively to assumed playside. We ran MM opposite of pulling motion several times to great effect. CPJ broke a ton of tendencies to really mess with them and it worked. Bud Foster admitted that he was outcoached. Part of that is certainly that we played a slightly different game with Jordan than with JeT but we definitely game planned really well.

 

[Chas_Jacket]

I think they just prepared for stopping our outside pitch game like everybody else and couldn't adjust all game long. It was very perplexing to me. If you focus on the VT defense on most of our big plays, you had guys way out of position and we took advantage of it. They continued flow outside based on Aback motion leaving huge voids in the middle.

I agree that they seemed out of place all game - which is bizarre seeing how well their D has played us and made adjustments in the past. Just a bit concerned that much of our optimism on MJ relies on this apparent anomoly - but I have to say his burst of speed up the middle caught everyone off guard.

 

[SolicitorJacket]

If you want a little clickbait, Athlon ranked all the 2017 FBS starting qb's going into spring.

They have MJ at 64. For comparison, Justin was at 28 going into last year and 12 going into 2015.

Up in Athens, they have Son of Corky at 21 up from 46 last year.

 

[lv20gt]

The VT game was a bit of a mystery to me. Was VT overconfident with Jet out? Did the other 10 on our offense decide to step up without Jet or is MJ that solid and brings a different element to the O? My thought is it was a little bit of all three.

VT prepared for facing us with Thomas. It wasn't until gameday that it was known that Jordan would be the starter. And imo that was a big reason for the success in the first half. What worries me about that game is once VT adjusted we didn't have much success in the second half. We hit a homerun with Marshall, but he is no longer here, and Mills hasn't shown anywhere near the big play ability. The only other sustained drive still didn't look that good and resulted in only a FG. People also tend to gloss over the fact that we scored 10 points of drives starting on VT's side of the field. The offense also turned the ball over setting up a short VT TD.

IMO the VT game was most on our defense that had allowed just 7 points halfway into the 4th, and even that was off the turnover. Next biggest factor was VT not having prepared for the different look.

I really don't understand the "legitimate two headed monster" inside thing. Jordan is a more physical runner than Thomas, but it's not like he's Tebow or even Nesbitt on the interior. I think people see the comparison to Thomas and jump too far into the other direction. IMO MJ is closer to Washington as a runner than he is Nesbitt.

My worry for next year offensively is without Thomas and Marshall, and with Jordan's relative inexperience in game time, we will be very much a pound it up the middle team with less explosive plays. Unfortunately where people see consistency I see lots of medium to long drives ending in FGAs. And relying on FGs will likely cost us a couple games next year even if things go well.

 

[stech81]

I think they just prepared for stopping our outside pitch game like everybody else and couldn't adjust all game long. It was very perplexing to me. If you focus on the VT defense on most of our big plays, you had guys way out of position and we took advantage of it. They continued flow outside based on Aback motion leaving huge voids in the middle.

I agree

 

[txsting]

VT prepared for facing us with Thomas. It wasn't until gameday that it was known that Jordan would be the starter. And imo that was a big reason for the success in the first half. What worries me about that game is once VT adjusted we didn't have much success in the second half. We hit a homerun with Marshall, but he is no longer here, and Mills hasn't shown anywhere near the big play ability. The only other sustained drive still didn't look that good and resulted in only a FG. People also tend to gloss over the fact that we scored 10 points of drives starting on VT's side of the field. The offense also turned the ball over setting up a short VT TD.

IMO the VT game was most on our defense that had allowed just 7 points halfway into the 4th, and even that was off the turnover. Next biggest factor was VT not having prepared for the different look.

I really don't understand the "legitimate two headed monster" inside thing. Jordan is a more physical runner than Thomas, but it's not like he's Tebow or even Nesbitt on the interior. I think people see the comparison to Thomas and jump too far into the other direction. IMO MJ is closer to Washington as a runner than he is Nesbitt.

My worry for next year offensively is without Thomas and Marshall, and with Jordan's relative inexperience in game time, we will be very much a pound it up the middle team with less explosive plays. Unfortunately where people see consistency I see lots of medium to long drives ending in FGAs. And relying on FGs will likely cost us a couple games next year even if things go well.

Pretty good counter argument, really. I think MJ will be fine IF the OL is playing great. But if he is forced to make something out of nothing, or play from behind, it's potentially scary. He really needs to develop both his option game and his passing if we are going to put up another good season.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 2897]

VT prepared for facing us with Thomas. It wasn't until gameday that it was known that Jordan would be the starter. And imo that was a big reason for the success in the first half. What worries me about that game is once VT adjusted we didn't have much success in the second half. We hit a homerun with Marshall, but he is no longer here, and Mills hasn't shown anywhere near the big play ability. The only other sustained drive still didn't look that good and resulted in only a FG. People also tend to gloss over the fact that we scored 10 points of drives starting on VT's side of the field. The offense also turned the ball over setting up a short VT TD.

IMO the VT game was most on our defense that had allowed just 7 points halfway into the 4th, and even that was off the turnover. Next biggest factor was VT not having prepared for the different look.

I really don't understand the "legitimate two headed monster" inside thing. Jordan is a more physical runner than Thomas, but it's not like he's Tebow or even Nesbitt on the interior. I think people see the comparison to Thomas and jump too far into the other direction. IMO MJ is closer to Washington as a runner than he is Nesbitt.

My worry for next year offensively is without Thomas and Marshall, and with Jordan's relative inexperience in game time, we will be very much a pound it up the middle team with less explosive plays. Unfortunately where people see consistency I see lots of medium to long drives ending in FGAs. And relying on FGs will likely cost us a couple games next year even if things go well.

We also sat on an onsides kick that we could have walked in for 7 more points on.

On another comment about flowing the direction of the pulling guards, for the first like 3 games I studied a lot of film and it was like 100% of the time the play went in the direction of the AB unless there was a pulling guard, and 100% of that time it went in the direction of the pulling guard. My guess is CPJ tries to play the long game with people reviewing his tape, but who knows. I'm thinking that he watches what the defense does on every play and then calls plays he expects to counter those.

Interesting tidbit - the last time we played Clemson, our leading rusher was Dedrick Mills, who had nearly 100 yards. 2 years ago our second leading rusher was Matthew Jordan. Now we have them both together.