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Feel sorry for Marcus? He's on track to get first class degree. No one put a gun to his head and forced him to sign with Tech. He doesn't commit two stupid fouls yesterday the game very well turns out differently. He's been an enigma for 3 1/2 years anyway. I feel sorry for you and me for having to watch this train wreck over and over again.
 

orientalnc

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I understand where you're coming from and agree the comparison is not black and white. We may be seeing different shades of gray.

You're right on 'Cuse's seed. I must have mentally blocked everything about that year's team after Ennis hit his half court winner over Pitt. I remembered losing to an 11-seed and forgot the team had the luxury of playing a 14-seed first. It's still beside the main point - they were not playing like a top 25 team. The ranking was based on the coattails of the first half of the season. UVA, despite its losses, is playing better now than that Syracuse team and it's not close. UVA has a coherent offense. If we're just talking quality of W/L as the gauge, UVA has beaten Miami and Clemson during their current stretch.

Imo, GT's 13-14 squad was seriously flawed. I think Golden was a SG playing PG... I'd rather have Smith. I'll take White over Holsey any day, and I don't think White is starting material. Hunt this year is better than Hunt that year. Miller, no argument, would be the best big we have this year. Carter, an enigma like many we have now. That year's Carter was as talented as our current rolodex of Mitchell/Jacobs, imo.

I think if you watched more of the games you'd at least see the merit of the "level of play" argument. I thought this year's GT team looked different than the last couple years in closing out several games, including Tennessee, VCU, and UVA. The difference this year being confidence and ramped-up aggressiveness down the stretch that suggested to me they were mentally tougher. True the team recently looks eerily familiar in 2nd halves compared to last year (which isn't the year we're comparing). My takeaway there is that BG is proving he can coach any team off the cliff. He might be in his own head now.

Re: adjustments, disagree on playing Q more. His weaknesses on both ends are being exposed. Tadric would be the better complement, imo, to the Smith/MGH backcourt because he can do at least 2-3 things better than the other G/SF options. Also, imo, we don't need to bite any bullet with Lammers. He's already experienced and talented enough to get more minutes. Additional experience is now the cherry on top.
Great post.
 

Peacone36

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Feel sorry for Marcus? He's on track to get first class degree. No one put a gun to his head and forced him to sign with Tech. He doesn't commit two stupid fouls yesterday the game very well turns out differently. He's been an enigma for 3 1/2 years anyway. I feel sorry for you and me for having to watch this train wreck over and over again.

Don't feel sorry for me. MGH is a good player. W/O him we are looking at probably the worst 4 year stretch in GTBB history
 

dtm1997

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One issue is BG repeatedly deciding to put Jacobs & Mitchell on the floor at the same time, thinking he's gonna get more offense, maybe hoping to create separation in score. Problem is that we sacrifice greatly on defense and the two of them clog the middle on offense, while our perimeter don't use the extra space to drive & dump down low or are incapable, even now, of taking shots from the wing.

I'm surprised we didn't lose by more because after the 1st pick & roll, I really thought they'd start killing us with it the way VT did.
 

kg01

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Feel sorry for Marcus? He's on track to get first class degree. No one put a gun to his head and forced him to sign with Tech. He doesn't commit two stupid fouls yesterday the game very well turns out differently. He's been an enigma for 3 1/2 years anyway. I feel sorry for you and me for having to watch this train wreck over and over again.

This is a little much. As you said, he chose to come here and could've gone elsewhere. For that at least, he deserves a little leeway from us fans, no?

An enigma the last 3+ years? Have you seen the level of coaching (sic) he's received?

Sorry to go at you 'cause that's not usually my style, but the 'gun to his head' comment rubbed me wrong.
 

lv20gt

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You're right on 'Cuse's seed. I must have mentally blocked everything about that year's team after Ennis hit his half court winner over Pitt. I remembered losing to an 11-seed and forgot the team had the luxury of playing a 14-seed first. It's still beside the main point - they were not playing like a top 25 team. The ranking was based on the coattails of the first half of the season. UVA, despite its losses, is playing better now than that Syracuse team and it's not close. UVA has a coherent offense. If we're just talking quality of W/L as the gauge, UVA has beaten Miami and Clemson during their current stretch.

I agree Cuse wasn't playing like a top 25 team then. UVA may be better than them but the same argument holds. UVA is not playing like a top 25 team in conference play. They might end there, because they have a pretty good coach, but not if they continue to play the way they are. I certainly don't think you can point to that game as displaying a significantly higher upside than years past.

Imo, GT's 13-14 squad was seriously flawed. I think Golden was a SG playing PG... I'd rather have Smith. I'll take White over Holsey any day, and I don't think White is starting material. Hunt this year is better than Hunt that year. Miller, no argument, would be the best big we have this year. Carter, an enigma like many we have now. That year's Carter was as talented as our current rolodex of Mitchell/Jacobs, imo.

Every squad under Gregory has been seriously flawed including this one.

Golden was a SG, but he had enough point guard skills to take the pressure off our other guards. Smith lacks that. Smith is a better shooter, and averaging 16 per game, but it's on 38% and ~1.18 points per shot in ACC play. IMO Golden was clearly the more well rounded player, and Smith's inefficiency in what he does better gives Golden the edge. Even more so when neither of the two teams had ACC level pointguards otherwise.

Down low Miller was the best post player, and far and away defensively, but the 13-14 team was not only more talented but the pieces fit together better. Carter was more talented than either Mitchell or Jacobs and the only thing that makes the decision close is the injury. Carter averaged 13.8 and 7.8 over the last 9 compared to 9 and 9.5 for Mitchell and 11.8 and 5.7 for Jacobs over the current 6, and keep in mind rule changes have changed to favor offense and Carter was playing with Miller which no doubt drove down his rebounding numbers . On top of that Miller/Carter complimented each other much better than Mitchell/Jacobs. The former was clearly a center/pf combo that had Miller's stellar defense cover for the biggest deficiency that was Carter's defense. Miller's passing also helped fill the lack of a true point guard role that the team has. Mitchell and Jacobs largely fill the same role. Holsey was the better player than White but it really is a matter of offense vs defense in either case. Lastly Miller and Holsey were together for 5 years, both in the second year playing with Carter, and the three had 3/2 years in the system, compared to this being the first year Mitchell/Jacobs/White are playing together, 2 in Mitchell/Jacobs in terms of practicing together. The frontcourt in 13-14 was more talented, had more experience, in terms of in the system and playing together, and complimented each other better.

SF is better this year than that year but not by so much as to make up for 13-14's advantage in the front court, or at the PG spot.


I think if you watched more of the games you'd at least see the merit of the "level of play" argument. I thought this year's GT team looked different than the last couple years in closing out several games, including Tennessee, VCU, and UVA. The difference this year being confidence and ramped-up aggressiveness down the stretch that suggested to me they were mentally tougher. True the team recently looks eerily familiar in 2nd halves compared to last year (which isn't the year we're comparing). My takeaway there is that BG is proving he can coach any team off the cliff. He might be in his own head now.

Against Tenn. we were playing a team starting nobody taller than 6-4 iirc, or maybe it was 6-6. Also in that game we were up 67-60 with 5 to play scoring only 2 points the rest of the way, committing 3 turnovers on consecutive possessions, and even putting them on the FT line with a chance to tie. And two games after that the ETSU game happened. Against UVA we were up by 11 at the half and allowed them to come back and tie it. When we went up 11 with 2:20 to play we continually did the one of the two things you absolutely can't do in with that kind of lead late. We sent them to the foul line again and again, 8FTA for UVA over the last 2 minutes. We also missed 6 FTs over the last 90 seconds including 2 front ends of one and ones leaving a potential 8 points on the floor. That game wasn't a testament to a change in what was happening. It was the same old things that have been happening that cost us games late that happened to not bite us in the rear that time. Two games later the same thing happened and it did cost us. Against VT we had a 10 point lead with 4 and change left. They had a chance at 10 free throws over the last 4 minutes, only took 9 because they missed the front end of a 1 and 1.

Re: adjustments, disagree on playing Q more. His weaknesses on both ends are being exposed. Tadric would be the better complement, imo, to the Smith/MGH backcourt because he can do at least 2-3 things better than the other G/SF options. Also, imo, we don't need to bite any bullet with Lammers. He's already experienced and talented enough to get more minutes. Additional experience is now the cherry on top.

Either way I think something needs to be done there. I'd play Q more because he''s more likely to have a big game and win us won. The way I look at it is Q is more likely to get us wins, while Jackson is more likely to prevent us from losing by 15+ You play for better average when you're good and for better peak when you're not imo. Of course I still think what would be best is to go 1-3-1 on defense with Q at the point and Lammers down low, but we're getting away from single game adjustments with that one. Regardless whatever The bite the bullet about Lammers was more in regards to last year and earlier this year as well as the mindset that it's better for the program that he get starter level minutes now regardless if it is what is best for the next game.
 
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This is a little much. As you said, he chose to come here and could've gone elsewhere. For that at least, he deserves a little leeway from us fans, no?

An enigma the last 3+ years? Have you seen the level of coaching (sic) he's received?

Sorry to go at you 'cause that's not usually my style, but the 'gun to his head' comment rubbed me wrong.
? how is gun to the head a conflicting statement. Very sensitive, I'm not much on PC buddy. Don't be so literal. He came in like Bolden and Carter as a fairly high rated recruit. To say he has been a solid player for Tech the last three years is not true. He along with all the other guards and small forwards Gregory has brought in have been disappointing. He is a Sr and many times doesn't play like one. Point in case is the 5th foul he committed yesterday was freshman like. Those 2 points he tried to stop essentially cost Tech the game yesterday. He has to know how important he is to the team and he has to know he can't afford to foul out, but he did and life goes on. Yes I've seen the coaching and that has nothing to do with him fouling at the wrong time (which he has done on more than one occasion). The whole team unfortunately doesn't seem to be basketball smart.
 
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? how is gun to the head a conflicting statement. Very sensitive, I'm not much on PC buddy. Don't be so literal. He came in like Bolden and Carter as a fairly high rated recruit. To say he has been a solid player for Tech the last three years is not true. He along with all the other guards and small forwards Gregory has brought in have been disappointing. He is a Sr and many times doesn't play like one. Point in case is the 5th foul he committed yesterday was freshman like. Those 2 points he tried to stop essentially cost Tech the game yesterday. He has to know how important he is to the team and he has to know he can't afford to foul out, but he did and life goes on. Yes I've seen the coaching and that has nothing to do with him fouling at the wrong time (which he has done on more than one occasion). The whole team unfortunately doesn't seem to be basketball smart.
I forgot to add, his fourth foul was a terrible foul that did nothing for Tech. It was away from the ball and gave the cards two points. So I guess I feel sorry that he is still mentally short on the court. He should be smarter by now.
 

CuseJacket

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I agree Cuse wasn't playing like a top 25 team then. UVA may be better than them but the same argument holds. UVA is not playing like a top 25 team in conference play. They might end there, because they have a pretty good coach, but not if they continue to play the way they are. I certainly don't think you can point to that game as displaying a significantly higher upside than years past.



Every squad under Gregory has been seriously flawed including this one.

Golden was a SG, but he had enough point guard skills to take the pressure off our other guards. Smith lacks that. Smith is a better shooter, and averaging 16 per game, but it's on 38% and ~1.18 points per shot in ACC play. IMO Golden was clearly the more well rounded player, and Smith's inefficiency in what he does better gives Golden the edge. Even more so when neither of the two teams had ACC level pointguards otherwise.

Down low Miller was the best post player, and far and away defensively, but the 13-14 team was not only more talented but the pieces fit together better. Carter was more talented than either Mitchell or Jacobs and the only thing that makes the decision close is the injury. Carter averaged 13.8 and 7.8 over the last 9 compared to 9 and 9.5 for Mitchell and 11.8 and 5.7 for Jacobs over the current 6, and keep in mind rule changes have changed to favor offense and Carter was playing with Miller which no doubt drove down his rebounding numbers . On top of that Miller/Carter complimented each other much better than Mitchell/Jacobs. The former was clearly a center/pf combo that had Miller's stellar defense cover for the biggest deficiency that was Carter's defense. Miller's passing also helped fill the lack of a true point guard role that the team has. Mitchell and Jacobs largely fill the same role. Holsey was the better player than White but it really is a matter of offense vs defense in either case. Lastly Miller and Holsey were together for 5 years, both in the second year playing with Carter, and the three had 3/2 years in the system, compared to this being the first year Mitchell/Jacobs/White are playing together, 2 in Mitchell/Jacobs in terms of practicing together. The frontcourt in 13-14 was more talented, had more experience, in terms of in the system and playing together, and complimented each other better.

SF is better this year than that year but not by so much as to make up for 13-14's advantage in the front court, or at the PG spot.




Against Tenn. we were playing a team starting nobody taller than 6-4 iirc, or maybe it was 6-6. Also in that game we were up 67-60 with 5 to play scoring only 2 points the rest of the way, committing 3 turnovers on consecutive possessions, and even putting them on the FT line with a chance to tie. And two games after that the ETSU game happened. Against UVA we were up by 11 at the half and allowed them to come back and tie it. When we went up 11 with 2:20 to play we continually did the one of the two things you absolutely can't do in with that kind of lead late. We sent them to the foul line again and again, 8FTA for UVA over the last 2 minutes. We also missed 6 FTs over the last 90 seconds including 2 front ends of one and ones leaving a potential 8 points on the floor. That game wasn't a testament to a change in what was happening. It was the same old things that have been happening that cost us games late that happened to not bite us in the rear that time. Two games later the same thing happened and it did cost us. Against VT we had a 10 point lead with 4 and change left. They had a chance at 10 free throws over the last 4 minutes, only took 9 because they missed the front end of a 1 and 1.



Either way I think something needs to be done there. I'd play Q more because he''s more likely to have a big game and win us won. The way I look at it is Q is more likely to get us wins, while Jackson is more likely to prevent us from losing by 15+ You play for better average when you're good and for better peak when you're not imo. Of course I still think what would be best is to go 1-3-1 on defense with Q at the point and Lammers down low, but we're getting away from single game adjustments with that one. Regardless whatever The bite the bullet about Lammers was more in regards to last year and earlier this year as well as the mindset that it's better for the program that he get starter level minutes now regardless if it is what is best for the next game.
Happy to agree to disagree on nearly all of the above. I'll clarify what I mean on a few things, but I think we're at a standstill.

1) We let UVA back in it and responded late with a run of our own... that was my point from that game. It was enough to overcome the last minute which didn't matter in the outcome (I see how this is a matter of opinion, fwiw).

2) I did not think highly of Golden. I hate making this comparison as an Orange fan, but I thought the Golden was much like the Pro Carmelo Anthony in that the offensive flow stopped with the ball in his hands. Golden had handle but largely sat at the top of the key on offense and didn't move without the ball to help anyone. He needed a volume of touches to be effective, imo. Golden was stronger in the lane than Smith, but to me the advantages end there. MGH at the point with Smith at SG negates the need for sustained minutes from our PGs. MGH's handle is good enough.

3) I agree Mitchell and Jacobs should not be in the game together. I've started believing that Mitchell often hurts us more than he helps us no matter who he's playing with. I see Jacobs as on par offensively in the paint with Miller and Carter. My recollection of Carter, outside of missing maybe 1/3 of the season, is that he loved the long ball despite not being proficient. Same issue with our collection of bigs this year who think they're stretch 4's when they should be playing with their back to the basket.
 

kg01

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? how is gun to the head a conflicting statement. Very sensitive, I'm not much on PC buddy. Don't be so literal. He came in like Bolden and Carter as a fairly high rated recruit. To say he has been a solid player for Tech the last three years is not true. He along with all the other guards and small forwards Gregory has brought in have been disappointing. He is a Sr and many times doesn't play like one. Point in case is the 5th foul he committed yesterday was freshman like. Those 2 points he tried to stop essentially cost Tech the game yesterday. He has to know how important he is to the team and he has to know he can't afford to foul out, but he did and life goes on. Yes I've seen the coaching and that has nothing to do with him fouling at the wrong time (which he has done on more than one occasion). The whole team unfortunately doesn't seem to be basketball smart.

It has nothing to do with political correctness. Don't get fixated on one aspect of my post.

You're basically running down one of our student-athletes and taking failings that are program-wide and placing them at his feet.

Has he been a world-beater? No, but he has certainly been as solid as we've had during his tenure. He could've b*tched out and transferred but he didn't. He stuck it out despite the grimest of outlooks. Sure he made errors on the court but, to me, he deserves better than you're giving him.
 
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It has nothing to do with political correctness. Don't get fixated on one aspect of my post.

You're basically running down one of our student-athletes and taking failings that are program-wide and placing them at his feet.

Has he been a world-beater? No, but he has certainly been as solid as we've had during his tenure. He could've b*tched out and transferred but he didn't. He stuck it out despite the grimest of outlooks. Sure he made errors on the court but, to me, he deserves better than you're giving him.
Fixated? You said the gun to the head comment rubbed you the wrong way. That sounds like a dislike for guns? I don't know, but PC seemed to fit as an answer to an odd statement. In case you don't know, put a gun to his head only means no one forced him to do anything. I wanted to clear that up for you before you get rubbed the wrong way again. As far as owing Marcus Hunt or any other player on that team is crazy talk. I don't owe Marcus Hunt anything, if you feel you do fine. You can't complain when a person has less passion than you or doesn't have the feelings for players as you do. The teams that have played for Tech the last 10 years have created a feeling of I don't give a sh*t anymore about this program. It is what it is and will be this way for the foreseeable future. I spent plenty of money watching games and donating to the basketball fund and countless hours watching Tech basketball so to say I owe Marcus Hunt is laughable.
 

kg01

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Fixated? You said the gun to the head comment rubbed you the wrong way. That sounds like a dislike for guns? I don't know, but PC seemed to fit as an answer to an odd statement. In case you don't know, put a gun to his head only means no one forced him to do anything. I wanted to clear that up for you before you get rubbed the wrong way again. As far as owing Marcus Hunt or any other player on that team is crazy talk. I don't owe Marcus Hunt anything, if you feel you do fine. You can't complain when a person has less passion than you or doesn't have the feelings for players as you do. The teams that have played for Tech the last 10 years have created a feeling of I don't give a sh*t anymore about this program. It is what it is and will be this way for the foreseeable future. I spent plenty of money watching games and donating to the basketball fund and countless hours watching Tech basketball so to say I owe Marcus Hunt is laughable.

Geez, now I don't like guns too? Hey, if you don't 'get' what I'm saying then there's not much else for us to discuss.
 
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