Locker room issues?

Northeast Stinger

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
10,805
forensicbuzz said:
Again, I think your characterization of what he said "offensive line being inadequate" is not what he said. I agree he hammered body type changes along the OL, which may or may not have been needed and may or may not have offended the OL. I haven't heard any negative comments coming from current or former OL. I have seen tweets and comments coming from the defensive secondary and LB positions and have seen a number of DL (interior and edge) either transfer or leave. I'm looking at the comments and anecdotal evidence when I say it seems to be more on the defensive side of the ball. I have no idea if the story has legs or not. There just hasn't been much coming from the offensive side of the ball (except for a couple of WR).
Click to expand...
Good inside info.

You do understand that “OL being inadequate” is not a single quote but a paraphrase of the half dozen comments he made when a journalist would ask him about his expectations for the season. He REPEATEDLY said they needed to understand the size of the line he was dealing with and the type of blocking changes and the changeover in the system. I listened very carefully to all of those press conferences and I don’t think I am mischaracterizing what he said at all. Perhaps he didn’t mean it the way it sounded but I certainly felt uncomfortable for his linemen hearing that we needed to “get over” their “shortcomings.” But good to know this didn’t create a problem for the OL.
 
orientalnc

orientalnc

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
9,918
Location
Oriental, NC
I remember the 2014 uga game was streamed on YouTube with the uga announcers. They kept saying our huge offensive line was just pushing the dawg defense down the field. Shaq Mason was part of that, and Erin Joe, so Johnson did not try to recruit "small" guys. He wanted guys with agility and power to drive their defender backward.
 
Ibeeballin

Ibeeballin

Im a 3*
Messages
6,081
Northeast Stinger said:
Good inside info.

You do understand that “OL being inadequate” is not a single quote but a paraphrase of the half dozen comments he made when a journalist would ask him about his expectations for the season. He REPEATEDLY said they needed to understand the size of the line he was dealing with and the type of blocking changes and the changeover in the system. I listened very carefully to all of those press conferences and I don’t think I am mischaracterizing what he said at all. Perhaps he didn’t mean it the way it sounded but I certainly felt uncomfortable for his linemen hearing that we needed to “get over” their “shortcomings.” But good to know this didn’t create a problem for the OL.
Click to expand...

So the truth hurt? We talked about how severely undersized we were in the trenches for a better of 8yrs, so when the HC mentions it, it turns into sensitive city. Exaggerating an inch and 10lbs wasn’t cool but I’m not sure why we’re still butthurt over this
 
Ibeeballin

Ibeeballin

Im a 3*
Messages
6,081
orientalnc said:
I remember the 2014 uga game was streamed on YouTube with the uga announcers. They kept saying our huge offensive line was just pushing the dawg defense down the field. Shaq Mason was part of that, and Erin Joe, so Johnson did not try to recruit "small" guys. He wanted guys with agility and power to drive their defender backward.
Click to expand...

1 of 3 OLs that avg over 290lbs+ pounds under CPJ
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,581
orientalnc said:
I remember the 2014 uga game was streamed on YouTube with the uga announcers. They kept saying our huge offensive line was just pushing the dawg defense down the field. Shaq Mason was part of that, and Erin Joe, so Johnson did not try to recruit "small" guys. He wanted guys with agility and power to drive their defender backward.
Click to expand...


Here are the average weights of the OL recruits listed by 247 (I think a couple names there are walk ons so I am using a bit of discretion for that but I'm mostly going by if they have no rating and I don't recall ever hearing the name).

2008 - 4 recruits at an average of 294.75
2009 - 4 recruits at an average of 274.5
2010 - 2 recruits at an average of 280
2011 - 4 recruits at an average of 293
2012 - 3 recruits at an average of 288 (FWIW one of these was Gotsis but there are going to be some wrong labels in that regard. If someone wants to go back and do a better job feel free)
2013 - 2 recruits at an average of 307.5 (Shamir DeVine)
2014 - 4 recruits at an average of 285.75
2015 - 2 recruits at an average of 268
2016 - 2 recruits at an average of 275
2017 - 4 recruits at an average of 286
2018 - 2 recruits at an average of 278

Total of 33 recruits at an average of 285.36

2019 was the transition class.

Under Collins so far here is how we have looked.

2020 - 6 recruits at an average of 294.17
2021 - 2 recruits at an average of 305
2022 - 3 recruits at an average of 306.67

So far that is 11total at an average of 299.55

Now that is by no means a perfect look as I did it fairly quickly. It's also not the only factor as physical development would play a large factor as well. That being said, by the numbers Johnson did recruit smaller.

Anyways, here was the depth chart post spring from 2014.

Chris Griffin - 284
Trey Braun - 294
Freddie Burden - 302
Shaq Mason - 300
Bryan Chamberlin - 295

Average of 295. Now maybe someone else was starting or playing that game. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

To put that in perspective. The ATL this year for game one listed 10 players on the OL averaging 313. The average weight of the 2018 opening day starters on the OL was 283.2. The 2014 OL may have been bigger than normal for Johnson, and I believe it was. It was by no means a huge OL. Still good though.

I wouldn't say Johnson intentionally recruited small. I do believe he was too willing to trade size for other factors though and why the OL was often a source of frustration.
 

JacketOff2

Banned
Messages
12
lv20gt said:
Here are the average weights of the OL recruits listed by 247 (I think a couple names there are walk ons so I am using a bit of discretion for that but I'm mostly going by if they have no rating and I don't recall ever hearing the name).

2008 - 4 recruits at an average of 294.75
2009 - 4 recruits at an average of 274.5
2010 - 2 recruits at an average of 280
2011 - 4 recruits at an average of 293
2012 - 3 recruits at an average of 288 (FWIW one of these was Gotsis but there are going to be some wrong labels in that regard. If someone wants to go back and do a better job feel free)
2013 - 2 recruits at an average of 307.5 (Shamir DeVine)
2014 - 4 recruits at an average of 285.75
2015 - 2 recruits at an average of 268
2016 - 2 recruits at an average of 275
2017 - 4 recruits at an average of 286
2018 - 2 recruits at an average of 278

Total of 33 recruits at an average of 285.36

2019 was the transition class.

Under Collins so far here is how we have looked.

2020 - 6 recruits at an average of 294.17
2021 - 2 recruits at an average of 305
2022 - 3 recruits at an average of 306.67

So far that is 11total at an average of 299.55

Now that is by no means a perfect look as I did it fairly quickly. It's also not the only factor as physical development would play a large factor as well. That being said, by the numbers Johnson did recruit smaller.

Anyways, here was the depth chart post spring from 2014.

Chris Griffin - 284
Trey Braun - 294
Freddie Burden - 302
Shaq Mason - 300
Bryan Chamberlin - 295

Average of 295. Now maybe someone else was starting or playing that game. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.

To put that in perspective. The ATL this year for game one listed 10 players on the OL averaging 313. The average weight of the 2018 opening day starters on the OL was 283.2. The 2014 OL may have been bigger than normal for Johnson, and I believe it was. It was by no means a huge OL. Still good though.

I wouldn't say Johnson intentionally recruited small. I do believe he was too willing to trade size for other factors though and why the OL was often a source of frustration.
Click to expand...
The 2014 OL was certainly an outlier as far as PJ’s teams were concerned. Even if you look at 2009 and 2016, the 2014 team was much bigger across the board. Folks using some Dwag announcer’s anecdote about Tech’s OL being big as a reference for how much size the team had throughout Johnson’s tenure are reaching.

That being said, a smaller OL can definitely be effective, and most of PJ’s were. Especially playing in a 3O where the DL are getting hit every play, a smaller but motivated OL can still dominate a DL. See the VT and Louisville games for reference. But, those smaller guys just don’t hold up well when you’re asking them to pass block. You need size, and length. Most of the guys PJ recruited just didn’t have that. Not saying he didn’t try to get them, he just didn’t land any, especially in the later years. I’m not sure what’s so controversial about that. It’s a simple fact. Just look at Pitt’s OL from last year that everyone says was so good: 315, 325, 310, 305, 325. If you’re going to throw the ball the have to have guys big enough to hold up on the line.

I’m sure some will argue that we could’ve modified the offense in 2019 and 2020 so that we didn’t need those big guys, but that’s a different argument and not the same as the one where people are saying Collins disparaged the old players or was disingenuous about the transformation on the OL.
 
flea77

flea77

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
934
Will worked his *** off to get big , before he was told to lose weight. Because he was Fat... This was him at 298 lbs. He looks really FAT.
 

Attachments

  • 9B50E62F-287F-4AA3-BF32-1A3269EE8AAE_1_201_a.jpeg
    9B50E62F-287F-4AA3-BF32-1A3269EE8AAE_1_201_a.jpeg
    869.6 KB · Views: 116
Last edited:
Northeast Stinger

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
10,805
JacketOff2 said:
The 2014 OL was certainly an outlier as far as PJ’s teams were concerned. Even if you look at 2009 and 2016, the 2014 team was much bigger across the board. Folks using some Dwag announcer’s anecdote about Tech’s OL being big as a reference for how much size the team had throughout Johnson’s tenure are reaching.

That being said, a smaller OL can definitely be effective, and most of PJ’s were. Especially playing in a 3O where the DL are getting hit every play, a smaller but motivated OL can still dominate a DL. See the VT and Louisville games for reference. But, those smaller guys just don’t hold up well when you’re asking them to pass block. You need size, and length. Most of the guys PJ recruited just didn’t have that. Not saying he didn’t try to get them, he just didn’t land any, especially in the later years. I’m not sure what’s so controversial about that. It’s a simple fact. Just look at Pitt’s OL from last year that everyone says was so good: 315, 325, 310, 305, 325. If you’re going to throw the ball the have to have guys big enough to hold up on the line.

I’m sure some will argue that we could’ve modified the offense in 2019 and 2020 so that we didn’t need those big guys, but that’s a different argument and not the same as the one where people are saying Collins disparaged the old players or was disingenuous about the transformation on the OL.
Click to expand...
There were a few times that I saw Tech’s offensive line get dominated. The offensive linemen that Chan Gailey recruited got dominated in bowl games by LSU and Iowa, respectively. Our last bowl against Minnesota was another example. And then those two different seasons where virtually the entire offensive line was knocked out by injuries. So I take complaints about CPJ’s OL recruits with a grain of salt. I think it is hard to recruit dominant linemen at Tech on either side of the ball. Pointing to size probably misses the point.

I would love for Tech to have one of the best lines in the country along with plenty of depth. I hope it happens. Historically that happens at Tech about every 30 years.
 

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,412
Northeast Stinger said:
There were a few times that I saw Tech’s offensive line get dominated. The offensive linemen that Chan Gailey recruited got dominated in bowl games by LSU and Iowa, respectively. Our last bowl against Minnesota was another example. And then those two different seasons where virtually the entire offensive line was knocked out by injuries. So I take complaints about CPJ’s OL recruits with a grain of salt. I think it is hard to recruit dominant linemen at Tech on either side of the ball. Pointing to size probably misses the point.

I would love for Tech to have one of the best lines in the country along with plenty of depth. I hope it happens. Historically that happens at Tech about every 30 years.
Click to expand...
Point of information. Chan's TE recruits played OT in those games.
 
Bennett

Bennett

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
478
Location
Atlanta Georgia
orientalnc said:
I remember the 2014 uga game was streamed on YouTube with the uga announcers. They kept saying our huge offensive line was just pushing the dawg defense down the field. Shaq Mason was part of that, and Erin Joe, so Johnson did not try to recruit "small" guys. He wanted guys with agility and power to drive their defender backward.
Click to expand...
It aired on SEC network. That’s why they were dawg homers
 
awbuzz

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Staff member
Messages
12,106
Location
Marietta, GA
6' 1" out of h.s. at 155#, was hoping to get to 165 one day... Now I'm back "down" to between 180 and 185. Would love to see 175 again. But, well food and drink are too tasty to all but give up on.
 
4shotB

4shotB

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
4,941
awbuzz said:
6' 1" out of h.s. at 155#, was hoping to get to 165 one day... Now I'm back "down" to between 180 and 185. Would love to see 175 again. But, well food and drink are too tasty to all but give up on.
Click to expand...

Similar...graduated HS at 6' and 165#. Ate and consummed calories wanting to gain 10 lbs. Dad wasn't happy as he was paying the grocery bill. He told me if I wanted to gain wait and I needed to quit worrying about calorie intake and just wait until I hit 35. I didn't know it then, but he was a prophet. I am happy to be at 190 lbs. now but that is a stretch goal most of the time.
 
bobongo

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,580
awbuzz said:
6' 1" out of h.s. at 155#, was hoping to get to 165 one day... Now I'm back "down" to between 180 and 185. Would love to see 175 again. But, well food and drink are too tasty to all but give up on.
Click to expand...
4shotB said:
Similar...graduated HS at 6' and 165#. Ate and consummed calories wanting to gain 10 lbs. Dad wasn't happy as he was paying the grocery bill. He told me if I wanted to gain wait and I needed to quit worrying about calorie intake and just wait until I hit 35. I didn't know it then, but he was a prophet. I am happy to be at 190 lbs. now but that is a stretch goal most of the time.
Click to expand...
Wait 'til you're 67 - I'm growing bigger horizontally but in compensation I'm starting to shrink vertically.
 
Top