Locker room issues?

[forensicbuzz]

Just so you all understand, I, too, think CGC could have brought his message forward better than he did. I’m not defending him or what he said. I’m just pointing out that what’s being attributed to him is not what he said but interpretations of what people inferred from what he said.

 

[gt02]

Show me a quote ANYWHERE where Collins said CPJ recruits were bad. You can’t, because he didn’t.

He talked about a different kind of OL recruit and he talked avout improving the recruiting overall. I don’t see either of those statements saying CPJ recruits were bad. He’ll, CPJ said he wanted to improve recruiting too.

Eh. I don't need to go dig it back up. If you want to go pull all the quotes from when he was hired about how he was teaching the OL to block (because apparently they did not know how to), how this was the biggest transformation in history, how he was going to bring back to GT real football players (because apparently the kids he had were not), then I am happy to go through them with you. We all know what was said. Like I said, he did not use those exact worse but the implication from what he said was quite clear, to the point that players, former players, and family members were noting it on Twitter. Not going to waste my time here but you are welcome to do so.

 

[takethepoints]

Obviously, Kenny, Lay, Minihan, etc. we’re all CPJ OL who stayed and played for CGC and CBK, so there doesn’t seem to be too big an issue with these guys.

You left out Quinney, DeFoor, the Morgans, and Hansen, who all started when they were healthy. Basics, in order = 6'6", 300, 6'4" 295, 6'4" 300/295 for both, 6'2" 325. Sorry, but that's about the same size as what we are fielding now. I've always found the "Our OL was recruited for a different system! We're so screwed!" excuse to be the lamest of all the many lame excuses we've heard for why we can't block. I might add that it looks especially lame when you consider that Paul took over the same situation, with the same raft of injuries, in his first year (you can check) and won 9 games. I think the coaching and/or the scheme has to be to blame here.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Eh. I don't need to go dig it back up. If you want to go pull all the quotes from when he was hired about how he was teaching the OL to block (because apparently they did not know how to), how this was the biggest transformation in history, how he was going to bring back to GT real football players (because apparently the kids he had were not), then I am happy to go through them with you. We all know what was said. Like I said, he did not use those exact worse but the implication from what he said was quite clear, to the point that players, former players, and family members were noting it on Twitter. Not going to waste my time here but you are welcome to do so.

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

 

[forensicbuzz]

You left out Quinney, DeFoor, the Morgans, and Hansen, who all started when they were healthy. Basics, in order = 6'6", 300, 6'4" 295, 6'4" 300/295 for both, 6'2" 325. Sorry, but that's about the same size as what we are fielding now. I've always found the "Our OL was recruited for a different system! We're so screwed!" excuse to be the lamest of all the many lame excuses we've heard for why we can't block. I might add that it looks especially lame when you consider that Paul took over the same situation, with the same raft of injuries, in his first year (you can check) and won 9 games. I think the coaching and/or the scheme has to be to blame here.

I understand. I’m not disputing anything you’re saying. I’m not defending the coaching staff. I’m just saying that comments being attributed to CGC didn’t come from him. They’re mostly fan interpretations of what they thought “he meant” instead of what he actually said.

I do also think that his choice of hyperbole has caused him more issues than it has helped him, especially now.

 

[tomknight]

Just so you all understand, I, too, think CGC could have brought his message forward better than he did. I’m not defending him or what he said. I’m just pointing out that what’s being attributed to him is not what he said but interpretations of what people inferred from what he said.

phased differently, it's fantasy conversations people have in their own heads with themselves, because they hate the coach (es). They have run out of socks, shoes, hairdos, and whatever else.

then, at just the right time, this dude comes along with a podcast that gives them new opportunities to come here and post on and on about yet another thing to confirm their bias.

 

[Pointer]

I was a big Johnson fan. I loved watching the option when it was working. And, Johnson was a genius at making it work. That said...

College football changed while Johnson was coaching at GT and we needed to change with it. Johnson might have wanted to change, but his mindset was somewhere else. Retirement was probably the right thing for him and all that thought he would jump back into coaching have noticed that he remains in retirement. I can well imagine he spent more than a few minutes encouraging his team to embrace the new staff and work hard to be the best they could be.

I had to endure a coaching change after my freshman year and it was very stressful. The fact that I was taking Calculus and Physics in the Fall of my Freshman year while trying to impress a new coach made it very difficult. That was my last year playing college basketball. And, I bet there are a few of the GT players these past few years felt the same as I did. Coaching changes are hard for players and some handle it better than others. And, some coaching staffs handle it better than others. People say stuff when they are frustrated and under stress. Let's not make too much of it. It doesn't mean the sky is falling.

I couldn't disagree with the first part more. Really poor

 

[orientalnc]

I couldn't disagree with the first part more. Really poor

Which part are you referring to? (1) I was definitely a big Johnson fan. (2) I loved watching the offense work properly. (3) Johnson was a genius at making it work. I don't know how you could possibly disagree with either of the first two, so it must be the third.

He was not a genius at some other things, but he knew how to make the offense work. Did it always work? No. Especially when the opponents were clearly more talented than GT.

 

[chewybaka]

Collins had and still has the right ideas. His execution of his ideas from day 1 has been abysmal. From throwing players under the bus about weight, height, and reach (he beat that to death) to the first play of the spring game to 3 seasons of garbage football the guy just chooses the wrong path every time. Big picture wise his ideas are fine, but he doesn’t know how to implement those ideas.

I think he finally understands that he royally screwed up in terms of rhetoric and coaching. Losing that number of games and having your best player transfer had to have opened his eyes. And it’s been great not hearing a word from him the past 2 months because when he opens his mouth he doesn’t speak the truth and everyone knows it. We are not elite, our players don’t practice harder, our team speed is slow, our QB hasn’t been developed, etc. All he had to do upon getting the job was work hard, recruit, and install his schemes. Instead he chose a different path by running his mouth and making a mockery of Georgia Tech football.

Let's hope that hard lesson leads toward a turn around in 2022... experience is a long hard way to learn, but he seems a bright guy who is now highly motivated to generate concrete results or harsher lessons shall follow...

 

[Ibeeballin]

If it's still an issue in year 3, I don't think that the problem is the student athletes....

Ok this would be said

 

[Ibeeballin]

No, he didn’t use those words but he said things that if I were a player I would not like. He was pretty vicious to the offensive linemen especially. On here we could all be philosophical and analytical but these were real human beings we were talking about who were being told in so many words you are the reason we are not going to be able to win the first few years and the sooner we replace you the better. Student athletes at Tech are not dumb. They heard the press conferences and they knew who was being talked about.

I was embarrassed for them and a little ashamed that we all carried on with endless arguments about heights, weights and reach of players and whether or not they were real football players or just light weights who only knew how to throw their bodies at an opponent’s feet.

Again, there was 11 teams that played under CPJ, only one group has been as vocal about the truth. So how does that one group (2014) speak for the entire CPJ tenure?

 

[Ibeeballin]

"Fwiw, a lot of tail end CPJ guys/first year or two CGC (year or two older than Juanyeh Thomas) wouldn't p*** on CGC if he was on fire.

The skinny on the whole "nobody can bench 225 20x" was apparently a farce. The day they "tested" was immediately after a max out day and nobody wanted to push it hard and blow a pec.

Also the OL weight stuff is just not true"

Got deleted by the mods and a private talking to about how I should keep such takes to myself

That wasn’t bad lol.

To confirm @bkoon, I’ve heard locker room issues as well, but it’s no different than what you’ll hear at other programs. Probably the two biggest things i caught wind of is:

Some players felt some guys leash was longer bc they were a legacy and a fan/Twitter favorite. Some guys thought they were better than they actually were

Some transfers didn’t trust the defense that worked at 4 other stops, so they went back to old habits/coaching from their old stops. This also led to the rumor game being held on the field. DC teach this, get on the field and gameday, what’s being relayed by position coaches is totally different

The OL height/weight was manipulated due adding LS in the group. Avg weight inherited 6’2.5 276lbs. That was my math based RW.com

I have no clue about the reps. I just the type of lifting changed under Sisk

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Sorry. I honestly don’t know what you are referring to.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

If I remember correctly, and it was said a number of times a number of different ways, what he said was that CPJ built a line designed for a different offense, with different needs, requiring different skills, and that he needed to recruit a totally different kind of player. He needed kids that were 6’5” 320+ With long arms and reach, and that wasn’t the current makeup of the OL.

Now, I think he wasn’t tactful in how he approached it, but I think he and Key were communicating all the time with the OL and the players knew exactly where they stood.

Obviously, Kenny, Lay, Minihan, etc. we’re all CPJ OL who stayed and played for CGC and CBK, so there doesn’t seem to be too big an issue with these guys.

Personally, I think the disgruntled players were probably more on the defense, but that’s a guess.

OK, so all the public talk by CGC about the offensive line being inadequate was just bad PR and not related to locker room tension. I’ll trust that you know more than I do on this.

Defense makes this story more enigmatic to me. CGC rarely talked about defense in his first two years of press conferences and indeed turned all that over to Thacker. If that is where the problem was, if this is a real story, it’s odd that it would come from the position group that CPJ was kind of chronically unhappy with. Unlike the offense, not the crowd you would expect to be fiercely loyal to Johnson and the group also most likely playing a fairly conventional system that could easily transition under a new coach. Lord knows that group was constantly transitioning under different DCs.

I am becoming more convinced this is an overblown story.

 

[slugboy]

Some transfers didn’t trust the defense that worked at 4 other stops, so they went back to old habits/coaching from their old stops. This also led to the rumor game being held on the field. DC teach this, get on the field and gameday, what’s being relayed by position coaches is totally different

I’m only responding to a couple of things, so I broke up your post a bit.

If true, I don’t understand how you can either 1. Have position coaches giving contradictory instructions or 2. Have players freelance without immediate consequences.
If a player isn’t following his assignments, you yank him from the game. Yes, the backup might be much less capable, but you’re toast if have 5 guys on the defense with their own different ideas about how to play who follow through on that.
If a coach is relaying contradictory information from the coordinator or HC, that’s even worse. You can’t let that last through a series, much less multiple games. You might need six coaches to sit up in the box.

The OL height/weight was manipulated due adding LS in the group. Avg weight inherited 6’2.5 276lbs. That was my math based RW.com

I have no clue about the reps. I just the type of lifting changed under Sisk

Doing what I bolded is idiodic. Bogus numbers will burn you. If they really did that, it backfired in mismanaged expectations

 

[Ibeeballin]

I’m only responding to a couple of things, so I broke up your post a bit.

If true, I don’t understand how you can either 1. Have position coaches giving contradictory instructions or 2. Have players freelance without immediate consequences.
If a player isn’t following his assignments, you yank him from the game. Yes, the backup might be much less capable, but you’re toast if have 5 guys on the defense with their own different ideas about how to play who follow through on that.
If a coach is relaying contradictory information from the coordinator or HC, that’s even worse. You can’t let that last through a series, much less multiple games. You might need six coaches to sit up in the box.



Doing what I bolded is idiodic. Bogus numbers will burn you. If they really did that, it backfired in mismanaged expectations

Only if it was that easy especially coming off in WIN now mode. I experienced the same going Tenuta to Wommack. As shown by firings, it’s been deemed not the players fault


I mean it’s hyperbole but not that far off

 

[alagold]

I’m only responding to a couple of things, so I broke up your post a bit.

If true, I don’t understand how you can either 1. Have position coaches giving contradictory instructions or 2. Have players freelance without immediate consequences.
If a player isn’t following his assignments, you yank him from the game. Yes, the backup might be much less capable, but you’re toast if have 5 guys on the defense with their own different ideas about how to play who follow through on that.
If a coach is relaying contradictory information from the coordinator or HC, that’s even worse. You can’t let that last through a series, much less multiple games. You might need six coaches to sit up in the box.



Doing what I bolded is idiodic. Bogus numbers will burn you. If they really did that, it backfired in mismanaged expectations

Sluggy,
yep -Either the talent wasn't motivated(if we had some) or the coaching direction was poor--because we had a DEF that was terrible ,esp the DBs.Just look at the stats.

 

[slugboy]

Only if it was that easy especially coming off in WIN now mode. I experienced the same going Tenuta to Wommack. As shown by firings, it’s been deemed not the players fault


I mean it’s hyperbole but not that far off

Even if it’s “WIN NOW” mode, what would Tenuta have done in the same situation? Or even if that stuff is hyperbole, but he was coaching the defense in 2019, 2020, or 2021 and saw the same things that we saw?

I know that a lot of our coaches are younger, but Choice didn’t put up with any of the RBs giving less than their best effort in pass protection.

Would Wommack have acted a lot differently? (Wommack didn’t seem to get the same buy-in from the players as Tenuta did, but you were there and I wasn’t. )

 

[forensicbuzz]

OK, so all the public talk by CGC about the offensive line being inadequate was just bad PR and not related to locker room tension. I’ll trust that you know more than I do on this.

Defense makes this story more enigmatic to me. CGC rarely talked about defense in his first two years of press conferences and indeed turned all that over to Thacker. If that is where the problem was, if this is a real story, it’s odd that it would come from the position group that CPJ was kind of chronically unhappy with. Unlike the offense, not the crowd you would expect to be fiercely loyal to Johnson and the group also most likely playing a fairly conventional system that could easily transition under a new coach. Lord knows that group was constantly transitioning under different DCs.

I am becoming more convinced this is an overblown story.

Again, I think your characterization of what he said "offensive line being inadequate" is not what he said. I agree he hammered body type changes along the OL, which may or may not have been needed and may or may not have offended the OL. I haven't heard any negative comments coming from current or former OL. I have seen tweets and comments coming from the defensive secondary and LB positions and have seen a number of DL (interior and edge) either transfer or leave. I'm looking at the comments and anecdotal evidence when I say it seems to be more on the defensive side of the ball. I have no idea if the story has legs or not. There just hasn't been much coming from the offensive side of the ball (except for a couple of WR).

 

[Ibeeballin]

Even if it’s “WIN NOW” mode, what would Tenuta have done in the same situation? Or even if that stuff is hyperbole, but he was coaching the defense in 2019, 2020, or 2021 and saw the same things that we saw?

I know that a lot of our coaches are younger, but Choice didn’t put up with any of the RBs giving less than their best effort in pass protection.

Would Wommack have acted a lot differently? (Wommack didn’t seem to get the same buy-in from the players as Tenuta did, but you were there and I wasn’t. )

You wasn’t seeing the field if you couldn’t execute Tenuta core defense and able to adjust to multiple formations, but I’m not sure how either would react. There is no Morgan Burnett or even a Jemea Thomas waiting in the wings to take someone reps away